Whiteman returns

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andy m said:
After a couple of seasons he will be at break even, hardly a massive investment is it?
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Putting in £5m a year? How much do you think the club's worth?
 

andy m said:
To be fair Shaun you say the Prince has put almost 17 million into the club so far but the value of his 50% must exceed that so in effect he is in profit.
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The club loses money.

He'll be delirious to find out he's in profit. He'd be barmy not to invest another another£16m under these circumstances.

McCabe will be out buying gold shoes now he's found his sixty million is worth much more.

Sorry for the sarcasm Andy but what you're suggesting is utter piffle. Imagine you buy a house for a hundred grand, cash. When you move in you find there's subsidence, rising damp, it needs rewriting and a new roof. So the value is actually only seventy grand. You spend thirty grand to bring it up to scratch but it's only valued at a hundred grand because of the market even though you've spent a hundred and thirty. There's no profit there. Both owners are in the same boat.
 
The Crab said:
I dunno what to make of it Pedro, just my thoughts thats all. i liken it to this, I promise to buy Ms Crab a new car right? The car she wants costs lets say ten grand and I rather rashly, say course love, i'll buy it for you but I'll need some time to get the cash together.

At that point, I'm confident I will sort the cash. In the meantime, a combination of bigger bills than i expected, and some poor judgement at the bookies, means I can't back up that promise.

My rather arse about face point is, when the game changing comment was aired, maybe (I'm guessing) it was based on a best case scenario? If so, it was always going to be a house built on sand, but nobody wants to hear things based on a worst case scenario do they?

Anyway, fuck all I can do about it. I've seen a lot worse than this in my circa 30 years of supporting the Blades. It is what it is, and only CW knows how much he is willing to tolerate from the Board.
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True. And how much he's prepared to put up with might depend on who eventually asks him if he wants to manage elsewhere.
 
Sean Thornton said:
The club loses money.

He'll be delirious to find out he's in profit. He'd be barmy not to invest another another£16m under these circumstances.

McCabe will be out buying gold shoes now he's found his sixty million is worth much more.

Sorry for the sarcasm Andy but what you're suggesting is utter piffle. Imagine you buy a house for a hundred grand, cash. When you move in you find there's subsidence, rising damp, it needs rewriting and a new roof. So the value is actually only seventy grand. You spend thirty grand to bring it up to scratch but it's only valued at a hundred grand because of the market even though you've spent a hundred and thirty. There's no profit there. Both owners are in the same boat.
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There was no profit when he bought into the club, he knew what he was getting in to. The value of his assets exceed his investment so its hardly a money pit is it?
 
Pinchy said:
At Junior Accountant School I was taught the difference between a profit and loss account and a balance sheet...
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If you had stayed on until senior school they may have taught you that the value of a business is not just its p&l sheets. The value of the player registrations will be more than double the princes investment, hence he is in profit.
Hope this is simple enough for you to understand.
 
Pedro's Winger said:
True. And how much he's prepared to put up with might depend on who eventually asks him if he wants to manage elsewhere.
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But you have previously claimed our manager is incompetent,I would have thought it highly likely that he should be grateful he has got a job,given how inept you claim he is
 
Wasn't there a suggestion the prince had a three-year investment agreement, which would now be up?
If so, it may be he's said no more, hence the sudden bank loan and the board room musical chairs.
 
andy m said:
There was no profit when he bought into the club, he knew what he was getting in to. The value of his assets exceed his investment so its hardly a money pit is it?
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What's the value of the "assets?" To repay both owners for their share input, it has to be £60m.

The assets are the players contracts which aren't a cash item. They only actually have a value when sold. If Brooks had let his contract run out he'd be worth nothing for example.
 
Sean Thornton said:
The club loses money.

He'll be delirious to find out he's in profit. He'd be barmy not to invest another another£16m under these circumstances.

McCabe will be out buying gold shoes now he's found his sixty million is worth much more.

Sorry for the sarcasm Andy but what you're suggesting is utter piffle. Imagine you buy a house for a hundred grand, cash. When you move in you find there's subsidence, rising damp, it needs rewriting and a new roof. So the value is actually only seventy grand. You spend thirty grand to bring it up to scratch but it's only valued at a hundred grand because of the market even though you've spent a hundred and thirty. There's no profit there. Both owners are in the same boat.
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That analogy may apply to Mcabe but not HRH.

Imagine if you bought a house for a quid knowing that it needed a lot of investment to bring it up to scratch. You spend 70k on it and now it is worth 100k. You do not have to sell it to be in profit but unless its value keeps increasing your profit will diminish due to maintenance costs. That is where HRH is at right now.
 
andy m said:
If you had stayed on until senior school they may have taught you that the value of a business is not just its p&l sheets. The value of the player registrations will be more than double the princes investment, hence he is in profit.
Hope this is simple enough for you to understand.
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They aren't more than the owners input and are written down over the length of the contract.
The only value on the P&L is profit for a goodwill multiplier. Seeing as we make Year on year losses it's currently nil, unless there's a buyer.

You really don't know what you're talking about.
 
Sean Thornton said:
What's the value of the "assets?" To repay both owners for their share input, it has to be £60m.

The assets are the players contracts which aren't a cash item. They only actually have a value when sold. If Brooks had let his contract run out he'd be worth nothing for example.
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That is the nature of the business though isn't it. Player registrations are an asset that is why you have pay for them, so your argument is irrelevant.
 
andy m said:
That analogy may apply to Mcabe but not HRH.

Imagine if you bought a house for a quid knowing that it needed a lot of investment to bring it up to scratch. You spend 70k on it and now it is worth 100k. You do not have to sell it to be in profit but unless its value keeps increasing your profit will diminish due to maintenance costs. That is where HRH is at right now.
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So after losing money for four years he's still in profit?
 

andy m said:
That is the nature of the business though isn't it. Player registrations are an asset that is why you have pay for them, so your argument is irrelevant.
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You don't pay for player registrations. You capitalise transfer fees and write them off over the length of the contract. You can't make up a profit on them until there's a profitable sale. I thought you were mixing up cash flow and profit but it's clear you just don't have a clue.
 
Sean Thornton said:
You don't pay for player registrations. You capitalise transfer fees and write them off over the length of the contract. You can't make up a profit on them until there's a profitable sale. I thought you were mixing up cash flow and profit but it's clear you just don't have a clue.
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He is in profit if he sells. You understood my point perfectly but are just choosing to be pedantic.
 
andy m said:
If you had stayed on until senior school they may have taught you that the value of a business is not just its p&l sheets. The value of the player registrations will be more than double the princes investment, hence he is in profit.
Hope this is simple enough for you to understand.
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Yes, you are simple enough for me to understand, thank you.
 
andy m said:
i would estimate 35-40 million. What do you think?
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No idea. I'll let you know when they're sold. When those days arrive we can then say one way or another whether the Prince is in profit. Only trouble is, it's an ongoing business so until the Prince sells up we won't know.
 

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