We all know it's a mess, but what makes it better?

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The Bohemian

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We are about to start a Premier League season in s significantly weaker position in terms of squad depth and quality than we left the Championship. Arguably weaker than our League One promotion winning squad. Through the efforts of two outstanding managers we built not one but two squads capable of winning promotion to the Big League within the space of four years. No mean achievement in recent Sheffield United history given we'd only spent one season in the previous quarter of a century there before Wilder's promotion in 2019.

We all know how difficult it has proved for Sheffield United to find great managers - capable of building and rebuilding successful teams. John Harris fitted that description. He left in 1974. In almost 50 years since, the Blades have had 29 different managers, including caretakers. Of those only four – Bassett, Warnock, Wilder and Heckingbottom – have achieved outstanding success, measured by winning promotion to the top league. By a quirk of fate, two of those have arrived within the last three appointments. One left feeling disenchanted with promises made and unkept by the owners. The other is clearly furious and frustrated by the nonsense happening around him. Who would blame him if he was considering his own career options? Do our owners understand how difficult it is to find top-class managers who are committed to the cause?

Meanwhile, we have lost two of our best players for a fraction of their market value - one to a key rival. Ndiaye had previously been "frozen out" of the first team squad when he initially failed to agree to the reported derisory terms offered to him. Jokanovic brought him back in once he realised he wouldn't have the means to reshape the team in the way he wanted. It has been reported that Berge was similarly treated once he refused to sign a new deal. Hecky made clear he wanted to retain ALL his players from last season with a view to strengthening selectively. We now know why. He evidently didn't trust the word and/or ability of those in charge to deliver on their promises. How right he was.

This is no way to run any business, let alone a football business. If we didn't know better it could be construed as self sabotage. We are supposedly "in advanced discussions" with potential buyers. How does destroying our prospects of remaining in the richest league in the world enhance our prospects of a sale? It just doesn't make sense.

As supporters, we all care - some of us possibly too much for our own good. I know lots of others who, like myself, were really looking forward to the new season and are now hollowed out by events. We all need to vent occasionally but ranting, raving and finger pointing doesn't actually achieve much. So what next? If the Prince moves out, what are the prospects of him replacing himself with someone, or others, better equipped for the challenge of running a football club? What do we as supporters want and expect from our next owner?
 

Feels like when you’ve just appointed someone to a key job, and forgot to put subject to satisfactory references in the contract.
Let’s hope Hecky has done his homework, and the Espanyol fans don’t know a class act when they see one.
A bit like some of our fans with Sander!
 
The Bohemian said:
We are about to start a Premier League season in s significantly weaker position in terms of squad depth and quality than we left the Championship. Arguably weaker than our League One promotion winning squad. Through the efforts of two outstanding managers we built not one but two squads capable of winning promotion to the Big League within the space of four years. No mean achievement in recent Sheffield United history given we'd only spent one season in the previous quarter of a century there before Wilder's promotion in 2019.

We all know how difficult it has proved for Sheffield United to find great managers - capable of building and rebuilding successful teams. John Harris fitted that description. He left in 1974. In almost 50 years since, the Blades have had 29 different managers, including caretakers. Of those only four – Bassett, Warnock, Wilder and Heckingbottom – have achieved outstanding success, measured by winning promotion to the top league. By a quirk of fate, two of those have arrived within the last three appointments. One left feeling disenchanted with promises made and unkept by the owners. The other is clearly furious and frustrated by the nonsense happening around him. Who would blame him if he was considering his own career options? Do our owners understand how difficult it is to find top-class managers who are committed to the cause?

Meanwhile, we have lost two of our best players for a fraction of their market value - one to a key rival. Ndiaye had previously been "frozen out" of the first team squad when he initially failed to agree to the reported derisory terms offered to him. Jokanovic brought him back in once he realised he wouldn't have the means to reshape the team in the way he wanted. It has been reported that Berge was similarly treated once he refused to sign a new deal. Hecky made clear he wanted to retain ALL his players from last season with a view to strengthening selectively. We now know why. He evidently didn't trust the word and/or ability of those in charge to deliver on their promises. How right he was.

This is no way to run any business, let alone a football business. If we didn't know better it could be construed as self sabotage. We are supposedly "in advanced discussions" with potential buyers. How does destroying our prospects of remaining in the richest league in the world enhance our prospects of a sale? It just doesn't make sense.

As supporters, we all care - some of us possibly too much for our own good. I know lots of others who, like myself, were really looking forward to the new season and are now hollowed out by events. We all need to vent occasionally but ranting, raving and finger pointing doesn't actually achieve much. So what next? If the Prince moves out, what are the prospects of him replacing himself with someone, or others, better equipped for the challenge of running a football club? What do we as supporters want and expect from our next owner?
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I understand and agree with a lot of this, but I don’t see that the two sales were at less than their market value.
First we don’t know either fee and second as they were both out of contract in less than a year and there appeared to be no other current bidders for either, their values would not be that great.
Had they agreed to sign new contracts then I see the point.
 
A huge points deduction on Chelsea for cheating over the last two years on their finances and Everton for theirs too. I can hope.
 
3 points and a osula hat trick after he signs a new contract and becomes the Danish Haaland
 
We need to get behind the team Saturday. Never mind slagging the owner off. We have got new players in we need to show them they were right in coming to the Lane. Give them a rousing welcome to give them confidence. Need to be singing non stop we are back in the PL and but wind up Palace and give them a shock!

Goodbye to the players that have left but dont give them a second thought they didnt want to stay. The new guys do. Shout their names loud and proud.
 
8 bottles of Thatchers Rascal! Mmmmm, made it loads better!!
 
varkanoid said:
We need to get behind the team Saturday. Never mind slagging the owner off. We have got new players in we need to show them they were right in coming to the Lane. Give them a rousing welcome to give them confidence. Need to be singing non stop we are back in the PL and but wind up Palace and give them a shock!

Goodbye to the players that have left but dont give them a second thought they didnt want to stay. The new guys do. Shout their names loud
Click to expand...
varkanoid said:
We need to get behind the team Saturday. Never mind slagging the owner off. We have got new players in we need to show them they were right in coming to the Lane. Give them a rousing welcome to give them confidence. Need to be singing non stop we are back in the PL and but wind up Palace and give them a shock!

Goodbye to the players that have left but dont give them a second thought they didnt want to stay. The new guys do. Shout their names loud and proud.
Click to expand...
The team will get full backing, there’s no doubt about that and rightly so. Also true that 3 points makes everyone feel better. Slagging the current owner off with no clue about how to do things better is also pointless. We all know running a football club is no walk in the park, even if you’re worth billions - which our owner isn’t.

The question is, how do we do things better in future and avoid the mismanagement that we’re currently experiencing?
 

varkanoid said:
We need to get behind the team Saturday. Never mind slagging the owner off. We have got new players in we need to show them they were right in coming to the Lane. Give them a rousing welcome to give them confidence. Need to be singing non stop we are back in the PL and but wind up Palace and give them a shock!

Goodbye to the players that have left but dont give them a second thought they didnt want to stay. The new guys do. Shout their names loud and proud.
Click to expand...
As long as we don't go overboard singing anyone's name for too long.

Don't want any miserable sods feeling embarrassed.
 
The Bohemian said:
We are about to start a Premier League season in s significantly weaker position in terms of squad depth and quality than we left the Championship. Arguably weaker than our League One promotion winning squad. Through the efforts of two outstanding managers we built not one but two squads capable of winning promotion to the Big League within the space of four years. No mean achievement in recent Sheffield United history given we'd only spent one season in the previous quarter of a century there before Wilder's promotion in 2019.

We all know how difficult it has proved for Sheffield United to find great managers - capable of building and rebuilding successful teams. John Harris fitted that description. He left in 1974. In almost 50 years since, the Blades have had 29 different managers, including caretakers. Of those only four – Bassett, Warnock, Wilder and Heckingbottom – have achieved outstanding success, measured by winning promotion to the top league. By a quirk of fate, two of those have arrived within the last three appointments. One left feeling disenchanted with promises made and unkept by the owners. The other is clearly furious and frustrated by the nonsense happening around him. Who would blame him if he was considering his own career options? Do our owners understand how difficult it is to find top-class managers who are committed to the cause?

Meanwhile, we have lost two of our best players for a fraction of their market value - one to a key rival. Ndiaye had previously been "frozen out" of the first team squad when he initially failed to agree to the reported derisory terms offered to him. Jokanovic brought him back in once he realised he wouldn't have the means to reshape the team in the way he wanted. It has been reported that Berge was similarly treated once he refused to sign a new deal. Hecky made clear he wanted to retain ALL his players from last season with a view to strengthening selectively. We now know why. He evidently didn't trust the word and/or ability of those in charge to deliver on their promises. How right he was.

This is no way to run any business, let alone a football business. If we didn't know better it could be construed as self sabotage. We are supposedly "in advanced discussions" with potential buyers. How does destroying our prospects of remaining in the richest league in the world enhance our prospects of a sale? It just doesn't make sense.

As supporters, we all care - some of us possibly too much for our own good. I know lots of others who, like myself, were really looking forward to the new season and are now hollowed out by events. We all need to vent occasionally but ranting, raving and finger pointing doesn't actually achieve much. So what next? If the Prince moves out, what are the prospects of him replacing himself with someone, or others, better equipped for the challenge of running a football club? What do we as supporters want and expect from our next owner?
Click to expand...

"Mess" is extremely subjective.

There is no argument that the squad is weaker than the promotion squad, we've lost some significant players, but its absolutely not weaker then the League One promotion side.

The reason for our success are in huge part down to, as you say our outstanding manager and his team and this is part of why i don't believe that we're in a mess.

We can spin the Ndiaye sale as a sale at a fraction of his market value, but you can spin the other way that we've made a huge profit on him in a few years. But as i've mentioned elsewhere, the sale represents a perfect execution of the model we've tried to build. Buy young with potential, develop to sell for more.
Berge was not in line with this model. So he's a better example for your spin.

We start the season with several new players, who the manager admits, aren't all up to speed. It's not ideal and worrying.
We have a smaller squad than we really need given our injury concerns from last season and this preseason.
 
Watching the training sessions reminds you that there's a big bunch of young talent dying to get involved. Nobody knows how any of these players will perform, same goes for the players we've lost.
 
I do think, and I know it's a big ask at the moment, that we as fans should, for 90 minutes on Saturday, try and forget all the off-field shenanigans, all the quarrelling over the ownership, the transfers, etc etc etc, and just say "fuck it" and get behind the team. It may seem obvious, but I really hope it happens. Whatever XI we put out will be made up of players that are at least ok with being here, and will no doubt give their all for the cause. Let's not get on their backs if a few early passes go astray, or even if Palace score early. I'd hate the lane to become a toxic hellhole on day 1 of the season.

End of the day, we're probably going to have a bit of a shit season. We might as well, as fans, try and make the best of it, make a load of noise, and try and be the mythical "12th man" that might just inspire the team to that extra few points that could see us pull off a miracle and survive.

Clapper out. You may now resume being miserable and pessimistic 😂
 
The Bohemian said:
We are about to start a Premier League season in s significantly weaker position in terms of squad depth and quality than we left the Championship. Arguably weaker than our League One promotion winning squad. Through the efforts of two outstanding managers we built not one but two squads capable of winning promotion to the Big League within the space of four years. No mean achievement in recent Sheffield United history given we'd only spent one season in the previous quarter of a century there before Wilder's promotion in 2019.

We all know how difficult it has proved for Sheffield United to find great managers - capable of building and rebuilding successful teams. John Harris fitted that description. He left in 1974. In almost 50 years since, the Blades have had 29 different managers, including caretakers. Of those only four – Bassett, Warnock, Wilder and Heckingbottom – have achieved outstanding success, measured by winning promotion to the top league. By a quirk of fate, two of those have arrived within the last three appointments. One left feeling disenchanted with promises made and unkept by the owners. The other is clearly furious and frustrated by the nonsense happening around him. Who would blame him if he was considering his own career options? Do our owners understand how difficult it is to find top-class managers who are committed to the cause?

Meanwhile, we have lost two of our best players for a fraction of their market value - one to a key rival. Ndiaye had previously been "frozen out" of the first team squad when he initially failed to agree to the reported derisory terms offered to him. Jokanovic brought him back in once he realised he wouldn't have the means to reshape the team in the way he wanted. It has been reported that Berge was similarly treated once he refused to sign a new deal. Hecky made clear he wanted to retain ALL his players from last season with a view to strengthening selectively. We now know why. He evidently didn't trust the word and/or ability of those in charge to deliver on their promises. How right he was.

This is no way to run any business, let alone a football business. If we didn't know better it could be construed as self sabotage. We are supposedly "in advanced discussions" with potential buyers. How does destroying our prospects of remaining in the richest league in the world enhance our prospects of a sale? It just doesn't make sense.

As supporters, we all care - some of us possibly too much for our own good. I know lots of others who, like myself, were really looking forward to the new season and are now hollowed out by events. We all need to vent occasionally but ranting, raving and finger pointing doesn't actually achieve much. So what next? If the Prince moves out, what are the prospects of him replacing himself with someone, or others, better equipped for the challenge of running a football club? What do we as supporters want and expect from our next owner?
Click to expand...
In the short term we need to sign 2 or 3 quality players and get 2 strong loans in by the end of August.

We are then in with a shout.

In the medium term we need a new owner who ideally sees us a means to enhance their profile or broader business goals, and is therefore prepared to run us consistently at a loss.
 
ForgeBlade said:
I do think, and I know it's a big ask at the moment, that we as fans should, for 90 minutes on Saturday, try and forget all the off-field shenanigans, all the quarrelling over the ownership, the transfers, etc etc etc, and just say "fuck it" and get behind the team. It may seem obvious, but I really hope it happens. Whatever XI we put out will be made up of players that are at least ok with being here, and will no doubt give their all for the cause. Let's not get on their backs if a few early passes go astray, or even if Palace score early. I'd hate the lane to become a toxic hellhole on day 1 of the season.

End of the day, we're probably going to have a bit of a shit season. We might as well, as fans, try and make the best of it, make a load of noise, and try and be the mythical "12th man" that might just inspire the team to that extra few points that could see us pull off a miracle and survive.

Clapper out. You may now resume being miserable and pessimistic 😂
Click to expand...
Fans will get behind the team from the start. I think problems might kick in if we are getting hammered.
 
SwissBlade said:
"Mess" is extremely subjective.

There is no argument that the squad is weaker than the promotion squad, we've lost some significant players, but its absolutely not weaker then the League One promotion side.

The reason for our success are in huge part down to, as you say our outstanding manager and his team and this is part of why i don't believe that we're in a mess.

We can spin the Ndiaye sale as a sale at a fraction of his market value, but you can spin the other way that we've made a huge profit on him in a few years. But as i've mentioned elsewhere, the sale represents a perfect execution of the model we've tried to build. Buy young with potential, develop to sell for more.
Berge was not in line with this model. So he's a better example for your spin.

We start the season with several new players, who the manager admits, aren't all up to speed. It's not ideal and worrying.
We have a smaller squad than we really need given our injury concerns from last season and this preseason.
Click to expand...
It is subjective, I accept that but I stand by my assessment. Trying to compete in the toughest league in the world with a squad that is currently weaker than the one that won promotion is mismanagement by any definition. Certainly Hecky seems to thinks so. Burnley and Luton have strengthened what they had, we haven’t. Burnley at our expense. Double whammy! A historically terrible decision even by SUFC standards.

As for Ndiaye’s sale value, yes a significant return on investment but surely not anywhere near his market value (see MGW as a reference point). Poor planning of contract expiries is another theme that had been addressed following Wilder’s arrival but has been allowed to drift again.

I accept that lots can happen in terms of arrivals by the time the window closes. We may yet become competitive. This still wouldn’t excuse the build up to this season.
 
The Bohemian said:
It is subjective, I accept that but I stand by my assessment. Trying to compete in the toughest league in the world with a squad that is currently weaker than the one that won promotion is mismanagement by any definition. Certainly Hecky seems to thinks so. Burnley and Luton have strengthened what they had, we haven’t. Burnley at our expense. Double whammy! A historically terrible decision even by SUFC standards.

As for Ndiaye’s sale value, yes a significant return on investment but surely not anywhere near his market value (see MGW as a reference point). Poor planning of contract expiries is another theme that had been addressed following Wilder’s arrival but has been allowed to drift again.

I accept that lots can happen in terms of arrivals by the time the window closes. We may yet become competitive. This still wouldn’t excuse the build up to this season.
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The contracts were apparently offered to Ndiaye and Berge a long time ago. Last season or earlier. They chose not to sign what was offered. Is that a planning issue?
 
SwissBlade said:
The contracts were apparently offered to Ndiaye and Berge a long time ago. Last season or earlier. They chose not to sign what was offered. Is that a planning issue?
Click to expand...
Don’t know on those too specifically but defer to Hecky’s comments on the general “problem” of contract expiries. Ndiaye’s talent was pretty obvious from his full debut against Peterborough. So, maybe we could have been proactive there.
 
The Bohemian said:
Don’t know on those too specifically but defer to Hecky’s comments on the general “problem” of contract expiries. Ndiaye’s talent was pretty obvious from his full debut against Peterborough. So, maybe we could have been proactive there.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure your deferral adds much more strength to your point. The manager hasn't said that contracts haven't been offered.
I defer you to Ndiaye being offered contract terms. When this occurred i don't have the details, so the proactivity point seems to disappear.
 

SwissBlade said:
I'm not sure your deferral adds much more strength to your point. The manager hasn't said that contracts haven't been offered.
I defer you to Ndiaye being offered contract terms. When this occurred i don't have the details, so the proactivity point seems to disappear.
Click to expand...
Suppose it’s how you define proactive. Waiting till your best young player in a generation is in the last year of his contract isn’t my definition. If this isn’t the case and he was offered terms and rejected them previously, I’ll stand corrected.

Berge, I just don’t get. He’s gone to Burnley! How does that make sense for Sheffield United? What does it say about our club and his inside view of our prospects? Plus my daughter is heartbroken!
 
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