Tempo

[Bergen Blade]

What we need to learn from today's game is that our lack of tempo first half is just ineffective. Keeping possession is neccessary at times, but if you continuously keep passing it sideways and backwards, allowing the opposition to get back in numbers you'll struggle to create chances, even against poor opposition.

I don't think we created one chance from open play in the first half. I felt sorry for McAllister, obviously instructed to try and get forward and find space between the opposition midfield and defence. He kept running into that space, but never got the ball as we were fannying about with the ball in our own half. When Doyle or our defenders were eventually closed down they then tried to find the strikers with a direct ball, but the Torquay centre halves won everything first half and if there was a loose second ball to be won, McAllister was nowhere to be found as his run had stopped ages ago.


There was no urgency about us, and people must not confuse our style first half with pass and move football. Any movement was killed by our slow build up. Quinn often came deep, sometimes holding onto the ball until he lost it, Williamson didn't get involved and the few times Doyle played it forward he only found an opposition. At the very least when we do win the ball in good areas we must break with speed, not help the opposition by letting them get behind the ball.

Torquay got their early goal and created two big chances from open play, getting in behind our defence. Defensively they were diciplined and dealt quite comfortably with our forward punts.


Second half, we upped the tempo, had more urgency about us and played a lot better. Thanks to an in form Evans and some luck with two of the goals, it was enough to win today.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

You're spot on there Bergen. Some people says we need pace, but others (I am in this camp) say we also need movement. You could see what a difference here was when we had Phillips and Clarke. They both injected not only pace but also movement.

You can have all the pace you like but if nobody moves, the pace is wasted.

 

[beechblade]

Movement off the ball is a big problem for me with the players. Some of our players just want everything to happen for them and seem to be too flat footed and not willing to move into space and make something happen for themselves at times. Torquay set up well after taking the lead and we just didn't seem to show much desire to get back into.

Having said that though, their keeper made two cracking saves from Ched's free kicks in the first half, and Harry missed two clear headers, there were chances this in the first half, so we still exposed the Torquay defence, same second half with the tempo upped we exposed them alot more, a few good saves from their keeper again. Doyles shot and Ched's.

We got fortunate with the first but the second was a cracking goal from Ched, great to see Ched be so switched on for the third it was a decent interception from him (poor ball from a keeper who played well all game though.)

I missed their 2nd had to go to work.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Having said that though, their keeper made two cracking saves from Ched's free kicks in the first half, and Harry missed two clear headers, there were chances this in the first half, so we still exposed the Torquay defence

Agree that they were decent chances, but they were all from set pieces. Think the headers you mention (one was from Collins) were from Williamson's corners.

Evans' second free kick came after McAllister finally got the ball when finding room behind their midfield.

 

[sitwell]

I also think they ran out of steam , we played a lot of possession football in the first half and to their credit they chased everything.

 

[alcoblade]

I also think they ran out of steam , we played a lot of possession football in the first half and to their credit they chased everything.

I agree with that, but I do think our lack of tempo is obvious. I'm not sure our players have an up tempo game in them though.

UTB

 

[DuncDisorderly]

For me, it is obvious that our midfielders just aren't fast enough to make the moves to get away from their markers. They are always getting the ball with back to goal with a defender challenging, often 'pinged' at them making it difficult to control, and so we lose possession a lot. Anything in the air is a 50/50 ball, but we are doing a lot of chipped passing from the centre halves to the centre forwards and then trying to win the second ball with mixed results. This whole situation can only change when we change some players, imo. Had the FA accepted our fax then the Scottish lads might just have given that to us. Ho hum. Heres to January and the Summer...

Serious respect to Bergen for the use of 'fannying' btw. Excellent English skills...

 

[Oreyt]

Hell of a lot of Pinging today Dunc.

 

[Bergen Blade]

You can have all the pace you like but if nobody moves, the pace is wasted.

Yes, but not only that. If there is a bit of movement and nobody uses it, then it is also wasted.

McAllister will be disappointed with his performance yesterday. Hit touch wasn't good and he rarely got on the ball. He is not the plamaker type who likes to come deep for the ball and dictate play. He's a box to box midfielder who can get beyond the strikers and be a goal threat, while also getting stuck in defensively.


He did show some movement , he tried to make runs into the space between the opposition midfield and defence, the kind of runs that sees midfielders like Lampard get so many goals. However those runs are completely wasted if it's not a integral part of a team's attacking play. The way we played first half we never used him. As said above we passed it sideways and backwards until any random run had stopped, at which point our defenders just hit direct, chipped balls up to Cressy and Evans. It was like playing Jostein Flo and never using his aerial stength. Like playing Luton Shelton and never using his pace.

I don't think McAllister played well, but it wasn't just his fault. I think it's likely that he'll get dropped though. While some high earning non performers are auto selected every week, some of the younger squad players aren't allowed to have an off game when they get thrown in.

 

[sitwell]

Would you give Macallist/Macdonald a try. I would. I was disappointed with the team selection yesterday ,I would have given Long ,ERtl ,Lescinel ,Macdonald ,Flynn and Tonne all a game.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Yesterday highlighted where we are at the moment
A set of Big Time Charlies without the skill, passion or character to be able to show it off!
On yesterdays performance Lowton, Williams, McGuire, Cresswell, Quinn, Doyle, McAllister, Williamson, Porter were found wanting!!
McDonald scraped by with only Simonsen, Collins and Evans looking anywhere near the part!
Yes we won but it took a miskicked own goal, and a miskick by their goalkeeper to give the Blades the opening goal and victory
Even then we contrived to try and let them get back into the game!
What did Wilson have to say- Bugger All except it was a hard fought victory
Torquay were the better side for large parts of the game
Yes United passed it about but never got anywhere, lost possession time after time after time after time after time - yes it is that mon otonous watching them give the ball away
They seem to get no better in fact apart from Collins Evans and Simonsen in recent weeks they've all got bloody worse!!!
Yesterday was possibly the worst performance of the season - yet they won roll on mighty Grimsby or Saliosbury - that should prove a test for the team and agent Wilson!

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Yesterday highlighted where we are at the moment
A set of Big Time Charlies without the skill, passion or character to be able to show it off!
On yesterdays performance Lowton, Williams, McGuire, Cresswell, Quinn, Doyle, McAllister, Williamson, Porter were found wanting!!
McDonald scraped by with only Simonsen, Collins and Evans looking anywhere near the part!
Yes we won but it took a miskicked own goal, and a miskick by their goalkeeper to give the Blades the opening goal and victory
Even then we contrived to try and let them get back into the game!
What did Wilson have to say- Bugger All except it was a hard fought victory
Torquay were the better side for large parts of the game
Yes United passed it about but never got anywhere, lost possession time after time after time after time after time - yes it is that mon otonous watching them give the ball away
They seem to get no better in fact apart from Collins Evans and Simonsen in recent weeks they've all got bloody worse!!!
Yesterday was possibly the worst performance of the season - yet they won roll on mighty Grimsby or Saliosbury - that should prove a test for the team and agent Wilson!

Pathetic post. Torquay were the better side for most of the game?! Eh?! Even in a poor 1st half we had 70% possession. And we dominated the 2nd half and could have had 5. I can only assume you weren't there. So much anti-Blades vitriol in your post - you might as well be a Pig.

 

[sitwell]

Do you understand football at all ? The whole point of possession football (70% says Deano) is to break down and tire the opposition ,job done we dominated almost all of the game. Why was Porter found wanting ,did he not do enough quality stretches up and down the touchline ?

---------- Post added at 07:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 PM ----------

Were the quality saves by their keeper and the post and clearances off the line all down to fortune too ?

 

[bricktop]

The problem is it is always going to take time to change things.

At the moment we have won the last 4 games on the spin, and by winning the last 4 games you can't really ask for much more?

 

[Bergen Blade]

Pathetic post. Torquay were the better side for most of the game?! Eh?! Even in a poor 1st half we had 70% possession.

70% first half possession, but no chances created from it. Torquay created two big chances from open play. But I'm glad Danny Wilson pointed out the lack of tempo in his post match interview. It was addressed at half time and hopefully we'll work on it even more.

Fiery's post was maybe a bit negative and ott , but then again, only highlighting the possession count and saying we could have had five may also be a bit 'too' positive. It must be allowed to discuss specific aspects of our game without being accused of being a pig.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

70% first half possession, but no chances created from it. Torquay created two big chances from open play. But I'm glad Danny Wilson pointed out the lack of tempo in his post match interview. It was addressed at half time and hopefully we'll work on it even more.

Fiery's post was maybe a bit negative and ott , but then again, only highlighting the possession count and saying we could have had five may also be a bit 'too' positive. It must be allowed to discuss specific aspects of our game without being accused of being a pig.

We had more possession, more shots on target, more shots off target, more corners and, of course, scored more goals. 3-2 flattered them - not us. I'm not saying we were great - the first half was poor - though we still did more than them - & in the second half we looked decent & dominated. Fiery didn't discuss specific aspects of our game - he just slagged us off. Ludicrous comments, like saying Torquay were the better team for large parts of the game - and referring to our manager as "Agent Wilson" are - as I said in my last post - pathetic. If that's what he really thinks I'd suggest going to the Sty instead. UTB FTO

 

[Fiery Blade]

Take exception to both Deano & Sitwells posts!
Pathetic! whats the point of having 70% possession if you go in at half time losing 1-0 (It was actually 61% according to the monitors in the South Stand) - I think I have a right to criticise!!!
As for this go to Sheff Wed instead - now that is pathetic I have been a Blade for nigh on 55years I've seen the better times
Why shouldn't I criticise when overpaid players cannot do the basics
As a football spectacle yesterday was poor - Sitwells Kiveton Park play better football than that far better!!!
Deano, if you thought the second half was good then carry on praising mediocrity - we won because Torquay are not very good - yes we are better than them but not much better
And DO NOT EVER question my support or allegiance - as I have said I have supported them for many many years and because I dare to criticise does not make my a Wednesdayite!!

 

[Bergen Blade]

We had more possession, more shots on target, more shots off target, more corners and, of course, scored more goals. 3-2 flattered them - not us. I'm not saying we were great - the first half was poor - though we still did more than them - & in the second half we looked decent & dominated. Fiery didn't discuss specific aspects of our game - he just slagged us off. Ludicrous comments, like saying Torquay were the better team for large parts of the game - and referring to our manager as "Agent Wilson" are - as I said in my last post - pathetic. If that's what he really thinks I'd suggest going to the Sty instead. UTB FTO

I'll let Fiery answer for himself, but if he is a man who hopes Sheffield United wins football matches, then he is a Blade in my book and Bramall Lane should be where he attends his football matches.

For me personally, the main thing about nearly all my posts is looking at how we can improve. That involves our style of play and if we focus on the first half yesterday and leave set pieces alone (as they are not directly related to style of play), I think you, me, Fiery and (thankfully) Danny Wilson all agreed that we were poor. If we can acknowledge what we agree on, and then move on to what we disagree on we should hopefully learn from eachother, or at least agree to disagree. Despite those stats you mention we didn't create anything from open play in the first half, and that's the important thing to debate as far as I'm concerned.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

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---------- Post added at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 PM ----------

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I'll let Fiery answer for himself, but if he is a man who hopes Sheffield United wins football matches, then he is a Blade in my book and Bramall Lane should be where he attends his football matches.

For me personally, the main thing about nearly all my posts is looking at how we can improve. That involves our style of play and if we focus on the first half yesterday and leave set pieces alone (as they are not directly related to style of play), I think you, me, Fiery and (thankfully) Danny Wilson all agreed that we were poor. If we can acknowledge what we agree on, and then move on to what we disagree on we should hopefully learn from eachother, or at least agree to disagree. Despite those stats you mention we didn't create anything from open play in the first half, and that's the important thing to debate as far as I'm concerned.

So where do you stand on Fiery using Pork talk and referring to our manager as "Agent Wilson", Bergen?

 

[Fiery Blade]

Well said Bergen - my point was that whilst we passed the ball often very rarely did it go forward and then we gave it away.
It was obvious that from the point when McGuire missed that open goal (header not even on target from virtually point blank range) it was only a matter of time
We were very fortunate with the opening goal and the third and I will stand by my first thoughts that for much of the game Torquay appeared the better side.
Considering their whole wage budget is less than we pay Evans it puts the game into context!
Yes we a third division side but only five years ago we were in the Premier - Torquay have always been a fourth division side and nearly got relegated many times over the past ten seasons with gates barely topping 3000 - there is a huge difference in the two clubs but yesterday it didn't look that big!

 

[Bergen Blade]

Would you give Macallist/Macdonald a try. I would. I was disappointed with the team selection yesterday ,I would have given Long ,ERtl ,Lescinel ,Macdonald ,Flynn and Tonne all a game.

From an attacking perspective it's the perfect combo, with players who in style are similar to McCall/Brown, one holding playmaker and one box to box player. A player whose strength is making forward runs off the ball would benefit hugely from an accurate passer behind him to thread him through the opposition midfield, rather than Doyle's sideways passing which ruins the idea of making the run in the first place.

When playing McDonald though it will always be questionable whether we can cope defensively when he plays. Maybe a central midfield trio would be the way to get the best out of them, but then we'd require more pace, flair and goal threat from our wide men.

---------- Post added at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 AM ----------

So where do you stand on Fiery using Pork talk and referring to our manager as "Agent Wilson", Bergen?

I think he blew off some steam and his main point was better expressed in his #20 post. I don't know what he means by "Agent Wilson", but I'm Norwegian and there's often things you lot post that I don't understand.

 

[Fiery Blade]

[
---------- Post added at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 PM ----------

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So where do you stand on Fiery using Pork talk and referring to our manager as "Agent Wilson", Bergen?

Grow up Deano - Wilson is a poor manager- done nothing for years - not done anything this year to disprove my opinion - perhaps he is a Wednesday plant! He certainly ain't a good
manager.( I would say you have a Wednesday fixation - I don't give a shit on how good or how bad they are - not interested - don't care - not bothered -have you got the message !!!

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Grow up Deano - Wilson is a poor manager- done nothing for years - not done anything this year to disprove my opinion - perhaps he is a Wednesday plant! He certainly ain't a good
manager.( I would say you have a Wednesday fixation - I don't give a shit on how good or how bad they are - not interested - don't care - not bothered -have you got the message !!!

You don't give a shit how good or bad the Pigs are? No - you definitely don't sound like a Blade to me.

 

[Fiery Blade]

You don't give a shit how good or bad the Pigs are? No - you definitely don't sound like a Blade to me.

Neither do you!

You're much like many Blades nowadays - Doesn't matter how shit we are as long as we are better than the Pigs!

 

[alcoblade]

Fiey, you reckon both the players abd the manager are poor - but we're 5th. Something is not far from OK.

Personally, I'd agree that the players aren't really up to or more's the point we don't have the right mix. But given that, to get them to 5th does the manager a lot of credit.

UTB

 

[super_pig]

firstly didn't go to the game but.. it is like reading the same report game after game.. (no offence intended DB.. i meant the content..style is excellent)
simmo.. does ok if there are no high balls under the bar
lowton.. should be in midfield (in place of maestro?).. not a natural fullback/tackler/marker.. his instincts are to go forward
williams.. solid for ages.. mistake the other week has affected him (carrying injury?)
macguire.. needs a rest.. he's only 18 and has played every game.. it's asking a bit much IMO
collins.. player of season so far.. can't believe i typed that
williamson.. infuriatingly inconsistent.. if he was consistent he wouldn't be here
quinn.. rapidly regaining elpiton tag he worked so hard to get rid of
macallister.. not on same wavelength as everyone else (has more of a clue IMO).. next harper/howard/britton
evans.. has finally showed up.. gone in january
cresswell.. has heart of a lion but his legs have gone

ctrl-A.. ctrl-C.. ctrl-V

edit post.. forgot doyle!.. says it all really

 

[Fiery Blade]

Fiey, you reckon both the players abd the manager are poor - but we're 5th. Something is not far from OK.

Personally, I'd agree that the players aren't really up to or more's the point we don't have the right mix. But given that, to get them to 5th does the manager a lot of credit.

UTB

Sorry, let me make myself clear!

I believe the players are not performing to their best week in week out - there is too much inconsistancy
The third division has many poor teams and we are 5th because despite playing well below acceptable standards (given the players' experience and supposed 'value') we are getting victories when we are playing little better than last season!
Our wage bill is probably far bigger than any other club in the division and players like Simonsen, Cresswell, Evans, Quinn, Montgomery,have Premier League experience with players such as Collins, Williamson, Doyle, Porter, all regular Championship performers in the past.
What I am trying to say is that despite having the majority of possession football on Saturday, passing was very square or backward and we didn't create much going forward except for dead ball situations.
I cannot see where Wilson is taking us and yes despite our consitantly poor performances we are fifth in a poor league!
The performances of some players this year is unacceptable especially some of the Wilson buys Porter, Williams, Flynn and LJF - have consistantlyfailed to deliver and Doyle, Montgomery and Co are just giving the ball away week after week after week.
I have not seen any considerable improvement and I firmly believe that if Torquay had not conceded that disasterous own goal (for them) we would have lost on Saturday despite being the supposed superior team.
I have struggled with this acceptance of mediocrity and we do not see players running off the ball, creating space, beating players and crossing from the byline and incisive passes from midfield - if Deano and his pals are happy so be it - but I have a belief that United are better than that!

 

[Pinchy]

Sorry, let me make myself clear!

I believe the players are not performing to their best week in week out - there is too much inconsistancy
The third division has many poor teams and we are 5th because despite playing well below acceptable standards (given the players' experience and supposed 'value') we are getting victories when we are playing little better than last season!
Our wage bill is probably far bigger than any other club in the division and players like Simonsen, Cresswell, Evans, Quinn, Montgomery,have Premier League experience with players such as Collins, Williamson, Doyle, Porter, all regular Championship performers in the past.
What I am trying to say is that despite having the majority of possession football on Saturday, passing was very square or backward and we didn't create much going forward except for dead ball situations.
I cannot see where Wilson is taking us and yes despite our consitantly poor performances we are fifth in a poor league!
The performances of some players this year is unacceptable especially some of the Wilson buys Porter, Williams, Flynn and LJF - have consistantlyfailed to deliver and Doyle, Montgomery and Co are just giving the ball away week after week after week.
I have not seen any considerable improvement and I firmly believe that if Torquay had not conceded that disasterous own goal (for them) we would have lost on Saturday despite being the supposed superior team.
I have struggled with this acceptance of mediocrity and we do not see players running off the ball, creating space, beating players and crossing from the byline and incisive passes from midfield - if Deano and his pals are happy so be it - but I have a belief that United are better than that!

I think you'll agree, Fiery, that Doyle and Montgomery were giving the ball away long before the arrival of DW. Its what they do. I'm afraid we would require Dynamo - Manager Impossible to rectify that particular problem.

I think you have quickly forgotten just how bad we were last season - even mediocrity was way beyond us. DW had [and has] a massive [sorry] task in hand to turn this juggernaut around. He is doing well and making progress but he needs far more time than you are prepared to permit. He will do himself a great favour in January by moving on Montgomery [Premier League managers please form a queue behind Frank Lampard] and Quinn [lost his way again I'm afraid] and using any proceeds available to bring in three or four [whose names are already known to us all].

As for 'Agent Wilson' I wish people would stop composing silly nicknames for our players and management.

 

[alcoblade]

I think you'll agree, Fiery, that Doyle and Montgomery were giving the ball away long before the arrival of DW. Its what they do. I'm afraid we would require Dynamo - Manager Impossible to rectify that particular problem.

I think you have quickly forgotten just how bad we were last season - even mediocrity was way beyond us. DW had [and has] a massive [sorry] task in hand to turn this juggernaut around. He is doing well and making progress but he needs far more time than you are prepared to permit. He will do himself a great favour in January by moving on Montgomery [Premier League managers please form a queue behind Frank Lampard] and Quinn [lost his way again I'm afraid] and using any proceeds available to bring in three or four [whose names are already known to us all].

As for 'Agent Wilson' I wish people would stop composing silly nicknames for our players and management.

If you're a fan of Wilson yet a hater of Monty / Doyle, how do you square the fact that they are his preferred midfield pairing?


UTB

 

[blade too long]

Lets not forget it was Torquays cup final , they upped their game 50% on normal, and you get Brentford over run by Wrexham for example, we had 60/40 of the game and generally bossed it despite being 1 behind for a large part , but fortunately 3-1 up 3 minutes into injury time, which is what mattered