So No Plan B

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Bladesway said:
1) We wouldn't have done the video with him in it
2) We would have had someone already walking into the job
3) We wouldn't be getting turned away by people like Bradford City if we had this pre planned
4) We would be looking for better managers not ones who are at best as good as.
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I said elsewhere - what if Clough just told them to shove their job?

Could be the expectation was to wearisome and he maybe didn't like what they were asking him to do.
 

Zanzibar said:
Changed it for you , sounds much better
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Know what you mean having endured nearly every game at BDTBL this season but despite that I still think because he got us out of the shite last season and it actually became a thrilling end at Wembley, I do think he deserved another crack next season. Otherwise, as others have mentioned, we look like another crackpot club like Leeds etc. As I said it would be more understandable if they had someone primed and ready, but.......... well we know that's not the case, don't we?
 
BornOnShoreham said:
I said elsewhere - what if Clough just told them to shove their job?

Could be the expectation was to wearisome and he maybe didn't like what they were asking him to do.
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Presumably though, it would have said he'd resigned or at least it was 'by mutual consent' rather than sacked.
 
No Plan B? When has McCabe ever sacked anyone without a a better go to replacement? Err, ok you may have a point.
 
We have never had a plan B on or off the pitch.
 
GRUMPY BLADE said:
We've got a plan A?
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Obviously yes, we let the press speculate on decent managers like Adkins, Warburton, Robinson etc with us having no intention of going for them then we ask to speak to a truly shit manager who has the one tactic of hoof it up to a big lump of a centre forward and hope something happens. This fills the fan base with utter dread meaning when we do appoint the cheap Mr mediocre we are happy more out of relief than excitement. ;)
 
I hate fucking rappers. Only in S2 would he be preferred to proper music.....
 
a WHIM ?

are you serious, managers get sacked if a club isnt going in the right direction
I was ok with Cloughs Blackwellian results are everything stance up to losing in the semi final , once it had gone we were left with a man who didnt attack at home.
We ended up 18 points short at home from being safe, the irony being we sacked him after our best attacking display , but because it came alongside a defensive disaster was too little too late .
He avoided being expansive , was not only poor to watch , but didnt get the desired results, Blackwell did manage to get wins from nothing .
He was not the right man , Whats annoying is he has the ability to see a players worth, but struggles to put them where they best fit , Basham being a prime example.
Id have made him catch public transport back from Swindon
 
In many ways the way we scored 5 at Swindon was his death knell
why had we not attacked like that in every boring 0-0 at half time at home
it got to a stage where we were shocked if we scored in the first half , now we go to a club who dont concede at home and knock in 5
hes been doing it wrong , he needed to go
 
Bladesway said:
I was saying that firing them was the mistake.
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Not hiring them in the first place then?

READ MORE: Does bad hiring lead to too much firing?

Twelve managers have lost their jobs in League One, with 10 in League Two.

Bevan told BBC Sport: "[Overall] in addition to the 12 resignations, this has affected about 200 families - it's an awful lot of people who have lost their jobs in a season.

"Six people sacked are back in work so it's not really the merry-go-round which many people call it.Link.

I'd really like to know the criteria when we hire managers. 'Absolutely no managerial experience? Welcome aboard, Mr. Weir!' 'No success to speak of in 17 years? Sign here, Mr. Clough.' 'Decades of scuffling around, getting found out and being fired in the lower leagues? You'll do for us, Danny.' If we're mad enough to hire Parkinson, I'll assume Sepp Blatter is on the selection panel.
 
Bladesway said:
I was saying that firing them was the mistake.
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I know I was backing it up in a jokey way, the amount of people who say they were glad to see the back of Warnock Blackwell and Wilson and yet are gutted we have shown Clough the door confuse me.
 
Interesting thread.

As one who thought it was perhaps right on balance to give Clough a few more months to display some progress, even though I just couldn't imagine him having the capability to suddenly change his ways and up his game, I am actually pleased to see that some fall-out must have happened and there was a parting of ways without "Plan B". It shows that the Board were prepared to give the manager some more time, despite that involving another lump of budget for him to spend.

Another big point for me is that I regard it as treachery for a club to line up a new manager in the weeks before the incumbent manager is sacked. I would never have contemplated that in my own business life, it's so disrespectful to your employee who might even know the new candidate; bit like cheating on the wife with someone she might bump into.. No thanks.

There is no reason to rush the appointment, let's get it right instead.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Interesting thread.


Another big point for me is that I regard it as treachery for a club to line up a new manager in the weeks before the incumbent manager is sacked. I would never have contemplated that in my own business life, it's so disrespectful to your employee who might even know the new candidate; bit like cheating on the wife with someone she might bump into.. No thanks.
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Maybe treachery but good business sence, what good is a few weeks managerless to anyone?

Also whoever we have in whatever capacity we should always be on the lookout to improove them and if someone better becomes available we should trade up.
 

grafikhaus said:
Not hiring them in the first place then?

READ MORE: Does bad hiring lead to too much firing?

Twelve managers have lost their jobs in League One, with 10 in League Two.

Bevan told BBC Sport: "[Overall] in addition to the 12 resignations, this has affected about 200 families - it's an awful lot of people who have lost their jobs in a season.

"Six people sacked are back in work so it's not really the merry-go-round which many people call it.Link.

I'd really like to know the criteria when we hire managers. 'Absolutely no managerial experience? Welcome aboard, Mr. Weir!' 'No success to speak of in 17 years? Sign here, Mr. Clough.' 'Decades of scuffling around, getting found out and being fired in the lower leagues? You'll do for us, Danny.' If we're mad enough to hire Parkinson, I'll assume Sepp Blatter is on the selection panel.
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Very good article. It shows how difficult it is to recruit the right person.
Apparently 50% of managers sacked from their first job don't get another.

But it's almost impossible to assess whether someone who's never done the job can do it. There are plenty of examples where new manager is appointed, whom everyone in the game thinks will be a great manager, but turns out to be hopeless.

My theory (and this is a general thing, obviously each case has to be assessed individually) is that many chairman, particularly those who are self made, are natural gamblers. That's part of becoming successful.
Therefore, they have a tendency to look for the 'next Mourinho', or the 'next Eddie Howe' and are desperate to find them before someone else does.

So they ignore the lack of experience and appoint candidates before they're ready. And just once in a while it works, which reinforces their ideas to them. So, when a board thinks about appointing in house, they think about Gary Monk at Swansea, or Adkins at Scunny. They conveniently forget about the Morgans of this world, the Carvers, the Sammy Lees.
There seems to be too much emphasis on gut feeling and not enough on due diligence. The confidence gained from being successful in their chosen business can quickly become arrogance when they become chairman of football clubs. It can easily become 'I run a multi-million dollar catering company, I built it from scratch, I know what I'm doing and I like this guy'.

I don't claim to have all the answers, if I thought I did I'd be actively trying to get into football administration, but I think you can reduce the risk by carrying out the proper due diligence and having a general profile of the kind of manager you want, one that doesn't change with the seasons, so that you maintain continuity. Swansea are a great example of this, as are Southampton. Occasionally you have to tweak the profile as you go up the leagues but the general principles and philosophy should remain the same.
If the board isn't clear on their own philosophy and principles, it's pot luck.
 
Ted Danson said:
Maybe treachery but good business sence, what good is a few weeks managerless to anyone?

Also whoever we have in whatever capacity we should always be on the lookout to improove them and if someone better becomes available we should trade up.
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Agree, football is a ruthless and competitive professional sport.
 
blade too long said:
In many ways the way we scored 5 at Swindon was his death knell
why had we not attacked like that in every boring 0-0 at half time at home
Click to expand...

The lack of intent was his big failing for me, though still suprised someone pulled the Trigger .............

I wonder what the question was, that Nigel gave the wrong response to ...................
 
Worksop II said:
The lack of intent was his big failing for me, though still suprised someone pulled the Trigger .............

I wonder what the question was, that Nigel gave the wrong response to ...................
Click to expand...
Will you do another video?
 
Woodwardfan said:
Interesting thread.

As one who thought it was perhaps right on balance to give Clough a few more months to display some progress, even though I just couldn't imagine him having the capability to suddenly change his ways and up his game, I am actually pleased to see that some fall-out must have happened and there was a parting of ways without "Plan B". It shows that the Board were prepared to give the manager some more time, despite that involving another lump of budget for him to spend.

Another big point for me is that I regard it as treachery for a club to line up a new manager in the weeks before the incumbent manager is sacked. I would never have contemplated that in my own business life, it's so disrespectful to your employee who might even know the new candidate; bit like cheating on the wife with someone she might bump into.. No thanks.

There is no reason to rush the appointment, let's get it right instead.
Click to expand...

Woody,

1) There were no signs whatsoever that Clough was going to get it right so the board showing patience would have got us nowhere. We were fortunate there was a fall-out which expedited the inevitable.

2) Do you seriously have any confidence in the board getting the appointment right no matter how long they are allowed them to deliberate? The thought of Parkinson being even in the mix shows just how little we have learnt from our previous mistakes.
 
BushBlade said:
Very good article. It shows how difficult it is to recruit the right person.
Apparently 50% of managers sacked from their first job don't get another.

But it's almost impossible to assess whether someone who's never done the job can do it. There are plenty of examples where new manager is appointed, whom everyone in the game thinks will be a great manager, but turns out to be hopeless.

My theory (and this is a general thing, obviously each case has to be assessed individually) is that many chairman, particularly those who are self made, are natural gamblers. That's part of becoming successful.
Therefore, they have a tendency to look for the 'next Mourinho', or the 'next Eddie Howe' and are desperate to find them before someone else does.

So they ignore the lack of experience and appoint candidates before they're ready. And just once in a while it works, which reinforces their ideas to them. So, when a board thinks about appointing in house, they think about Gary Monk at Swansea, or Adkins at Scunny. They conveniently forget about the Morgans of this world, the Carvers, the Sammy Lees.
There seems to be too much emphasis on gut feeling and not enough on due diligence. The confidence gained from being successful in their chosen business can quickly become arrogance when they become chairman of football clubs. It can easily become 'I run a multi-million dollar catering company, I built it from scratch, I know what I'm doing and I like this guy'.

I don't claim to have all the answers, if I thought I did I'd be actively trying to get into football administration, but I think you can reduce the risk by carrying out the proper due diligence and having a general profile of the kind of manager you want, one that doesn't change with the seasons, so that you maintain continuity. Swansea are a great example of this, as are Southampton. Occasionally you have to tweak the profile as you go up the leagues but the general principles and philosophy should remain the same.
If the board isn't clear on their own philosophy and principles, it's pot luck.
Click to expand...

Good post. Sometimes gut instinct is the way to go. But maybe not McCabe's gut instinct.

No telling how a manager will perform. Eddie Howe's methods worked at Bournemouth but he was less successful at Burnley. Adkins worked well at Southampton but not so well at Reading.

I'm not really bothered who we appoint this time around, I'm just tired of chopping and changing. It never seems to do any good.
 
chipsncake said:
Woody,

There were no signs whatsoever that Clough was going to get it right.
Click to expand...

I think there were. He knew what was missing and was committed to filling the gaps in the squad during the summer. We were (and in theory still are) 3 or 4 players away from an excellent squad. Adams is coming good. And in his final game, Clough saw what we are capable of when we attack.

Many if not most fans would have given him till Christmas. I was quite optimistic that we'd be in the top two by then.
 
grafikhaus said:
Not hiring them in the first place then?

READ MORE: Does bad hiring lead to too much firing?

Twelve managers have lost their jobs in League One, with 10 in League Two.

Bevan told BBC Sport: "[Overall] in addition to the 12 resignations, this has affected about 200 families - it's an awful lot of people who have lost their jobs in a season.

"Six people sacked are back in work so it's not really the merry-go-round which many people call it.Link.

I'd really like to know the criteria when we hire managers. 'Absolutely no managerial experience? Welcome aboard, Mr. Weir!' 'No success to speak of in 17 years? Sign here, Mr. Clough.' 'Decades of scuffling around, getting found out and being fired in the lower leagues? You'll do for us, Danny.' If we're mad enough to hire Parkinson, I'll assume Sepp Blatter is on the selection panel.
Click to expand...

Fair points made . Who do we go to for advice . The club would be better ringing you and some others .Contacting certain managers have dropped us in the shit.

Like ringing Moyes ( i know this as a fact ) , about Weir . Moyes is not going to say he is a wanker , don't touch him with a barge pole , as they piss in the same pot.

Same as Ferguson with Robson . Bassett / Warnock with Adams.

The club need independent professional advice when choosing a manager . Surely if other clubs can get it right , once in a while ,i am sure we can.

UTB
 
Out of all the candidates that have been mentioned, Bergen's suggestion of Bob Bradley is the most exciting for me. One thing looks pretty certain - the new manager will probably last as long as Clough at best if we don't get promotion.
 
Worksop II said:
The lack of intent was his big failing for me, though still suprised someone pulled the Trigger .............

I wonder what the question was, that Nigel gave the wrong response to ...................
Click to expand...
What's your definition of entertainment?
 
botoble said:
I know I was backing it up in a jokey way, the amount of people who say they were glad to see the back of Warnock Blackwell and Wilson and yet are gutted we have shown Clough the door confuse me.
Click to expand...

Glad to see the back of Warnock but not without a replacement. The rest were disgraceful as the Clough sacking will be seen as in history and without the sabre rattlers telling everyone they are right with their fingers in their ears.
 
grafikhaus said:
Not hiring them in the first place then?

READ MORE: Does bad hiring lead to too much firing?

Twelve managers have lost their jobs in League One, with 10 in League Two.

Bevan told BBC Sport: "[Overall] in addition to the 12 resignations, this has affected about 200 families - it's an awful lot of people who have lost their jobs in a season.

"Six people sacked are back in work so it's not really the merry-go-round which many people call it.Link.

I'd really like to know the criteria when we hire managers. 'Absolutely no managerial experience? Welcome aboard, Mr. Weir!' 'No success to speak of in 17 years? Sign here, Mr. Clough.' 'Decades of scuffling around, getting found out and being fired in the lower leagues? You'll do for us, Danny.' If we're mad enough to hire Parkinson, I'll assume Sepp Blatter is on the selection panel.
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The statement in bold is bang on.

We are perpetually embarrassed because we keep doing it wrong. McCabe kept pulling triggers and sacked managers who he employed under the wrong circumstances in the first place. He sacked Warnock and replaced him with an idiot. He sacked the idiot and replaced him with a limited but at least committed Bladey idiot (he didn't even ask how much he was going to get paid he wanted the job that badly). A couple of seasons later he sacked the bladey idiot because he lost at home in front of investors. He replaced bladey idiot with cheap option because the money had run out (Idiot spent it all). cheap option got offered a better job and fucked off (don't blame him) but we were already bust by then. We replaced cheap option with cheaper option idiot who was at least another bladey blade. We got relegated, so fired cheaper option bladey blade idiot. Replaced him with former pig idiot who was also cheap, things appeared to get better then striker got sent to clink, then the next season chairman sold former pig idiots top scorer and then sacked former pig idiot 5 GAMES BEFORE THE END OF THE SEASON. In walks another cheap bladey blade option to fill the hole and we fail in the play offs. Idiot with no experience takes over and tries to utterly change the mentality in one stroke. Fails so we replace with bloke who appears on the outside to be a step in the right direction. Cup semi and probably the best spell in recent times follows. We are on the up and McCabe has joint investment to spend till the police come again. Another season and a couple of million pounds later (plus wages etc etc) and we get twitchy bums when bloke who previously appears to be better than previous idiots turns out to be just another idiot. Suddenly another idiot gets fired out of the blue. No thought of "well we should replace with idiot a, b, or c just fired.

And we wonder reading the above back why the fuck we never get decent managers? Even when we do they don't get a chance (arguably) but we keep doing it wrong. The firing should be right at the top not at club management level.

Kevin McCabe the blame is yours.
 
chipsncake said:
Woody,

1) There were no signs whatsoever that Clough was going to get it right so the board showing patience would have got us nowhere. We were fortunate there was a fall-out which expedited the inevitable.

2) Do you seriously have any confidence in the board getting the appointment right no matter how long they are allowed them to deliberate? The thought of Parkinson being even in the mix shows just how little we have learnt from our previous mistakes.
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I too am relieved that Clough has gone, in fact I smile more since the announcement. I too am thankful something happened as I say above, thing is nobody could have planned for it if it happened out of the blue.

As for confidence in the Board which has only appointed one manager before i.e. Clough, not really but I'm looking

Parkinson is a good manager, just ask Bradford fans whether they will be bothered if he leaves. One of the two I know will be distraught, the other disappointed.

Anyway, let's see what happens and if it's Parkinson let's see how he goes about his job. Look at his record, he does an effective job. Why Parkinson I don't know but Bladesway makes the point that beggars can't be picky choosers.Whether he is a big enough man to lift us two levels I do not know but he has done a great job at Bradford and worked wonders at Colchester. He didn't do so well at Hull and Charlton. He got good experience as No.2 to Pardew. I think there is a fierce competitor underneath that calm, quiet persona.The man certainly has more success on his CV than Clough had but it's all immaterial at the moment anyway, impatient guesswork by nervous Blades fans.
 

Bladesway said:
Appears to all intents and purposes we have sacked Clough on a whim. While I understand why he got sacked (he is obstinate, he divides opinion, he doesn't appear to take responsibility for failure) if we really haven't got names lined up or spoken to anyone we really haven't learned from previous mistakes.

Adkins, Parkinson, Ronnie Moore, Alan Lee (insert another name here), I'm sorry its piss poor if we have just gone pulled the trigger once more just because poor old princey poo didn't get his own way, or McCabe decided there was a Y in the day so we should get rid.

This just makes us appear even more trigger happy and ridiculous to the outside world. Why does this matter? Because this is where our next manager is going to come from. No one outside the SUFC bubble can understand what the hell is going on at our club. We finished 5th and have been in 2 cup semi finals, to the watching world we are basket case, up there with Leeds and other ridiculous clubs.

Those thinking Allardyce or some such are off their rockers. Those thinking our pulling power is any bigger than that of Wycombe Wanderers need their heads feeling. We are fast approaching the madhouse if indeed we aren't already there, I worry no self respecting manager is going to come to SUFC unless we offer ridiculous wages and a ridiculous contract length. Lets be honest anything over a 1 year contract is crazy for us.

I have my fingers and just about everything else crossed that we get it right this time but my head tells me we have just repeated the history of Warnock, Blackwell, Wilson etc etc.
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Why have I suddenly thought of you Bladesway? Well it took us 8 days. You've got Adkins above on your list of losers but I hope you are not too disappointed, I'm sure he is a self-respecting manager and he is a proven promotion winner.. Most fans are delighted with things and I hope we can all sing off the same song-sheet for a while. Time to bury the past and hope we move forward with the new owners.
 
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