Safe Standing - fans survey

[Stand United]

Hi all,

I know there are a few threads on the topic already, but hopefully it's ok to create this new one that's related, but slightly different too!

I'm a Unitedite that's been trying to raise rail seating with the club for a number of years now - all the way back to when we had the EFL vote to allow rail seating for clubs like Shrewsbury in League 1. Since then, there have been various moments where I've wanted to try and get a bit more of a fan campaign targeted towards BDTBL specifically, and yesterday's news seemed like a good moment to go live with a survey of fans to try and get a sense of what really is the feeling among fans on safe standing.

From conversations I've had with the club in recent years, it's always been something they have been more-or-less aware of, but in my sense not particulary minded to do much about - that's one of the main reasons for launching the survey. I'm hoping to get a decent sample of fans responding to share with them and hopefully kickstart something - even if it's just inching it a bit further up their priority list.

If you have a spare 5 mins or so to complete the survey, please go to bit.ly/safestandingsufc

If you want to see safe standing at the Lane, please respond. And equally if you really don't want it, I definitely want you to respond too!

UTB, J

p.s. if anyone is interested in getting involved in this, drop me a message!

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

Standing at 5ft 6" (almost) and struggling on tippie-toes for 50 years or so, I for one was delighted when folks had to sit down - I could actually see fully what was going on on the pitch for the 1st time in my life. Away matches were different of course - every bugger constantly standing up and my viewing experiences reminiscent of me as a youngster trying to catch a glimpse of the serious goalmouth action prompted me to say, 'enough of this - home matches only now'.
Standing sections for those that want it - fine by me, just as long as I can actually see what I'm paying to see.

 

[Stand United]

Standing sections for those that want it - fine by me, just as long as I can actually see what I'm paying to see.

That's exactly what I hope most that view it as not for them will share, positionwise. There's always a danger with this sort of thing that it's intended as two-fingers up to those that aren't willing or able to stand at a full game, but I hope folk view it as it's intended - to offer an additional way of viewing a game for those that want to stand, rather than force folk into something they don't agree with doing.

Standers and Sitters of the Lane, unite.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

We’ve got 2 obvious places for rail seating. BLLT and back of the Kop. This is where the shittest seats are.

 

[JJBlade]

I think there was a better view at Bramall Lane whilst standing. There's got to be more restricted view seats at the Lane than any other stadium in the country since they "Modernised" it.

 

[sufcboy95]

Those that want to stand, stand anyway so don’t think it’ll make a massive difference.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Bring it back for those who want it. My only issue is it'd potentially break up family groups who go together

 

[Ivanhoe]

It’s them bleeding pillars on the kop.

Still better than the view from the back of the away stand at the rusty bucket, that has got to be the worst view in football, how it ever got chosen for the euro’s or Cup semi’s should be investigated. Makes you wonder if ‘Brown Envelopes’ were involved somewhere along the line..

 

[Stand United]

Those that want to stand, stand anyway so don’t think it’ll make a massive difference.

At the moment I want to stand, but don't want to annoy those behind me that (quite rightly) might not want to, and at any rate have paid to sit.

I would, and hope to, stand if we pilot safe standing in the ground. At the end of the day it's about helping fans to watch the game in a way they'd prefer, and I think even a small safe standing area would add to what we have on offer at the mo.

 

[metalblade]

The only place needing rail seats is on the kop leave the rest of the ground for those that want seats. Any trail has to be done at the back of the Kop as everybody stands there anyway leave seats at the front for those who have trouble standing. As and when required if there is demand we can add more rail seats working down the Kop so as not to block views for those who are seated. I can't see it happening at the lane until we have a major redevelopment of the kop or the club would be throwing money down the drain, no point putting new seats in only to rip them all out again in a few years when the kop is redeveloped. Facilities on the kop are poor and stretched to the limit as it is without any potential increase in capacity.

 

[OttBlade]

One of the big reasons for me in favour of standing was friends, family could all purchase tickets at different times or make choices when to go and still meet up and stand together. Obviously some of the designs put forward would still forbid that as you are allocated a set place so no real advantage for me. With the right amount of crush barriers in place standing could be and has been perfectly safe.

 

[sheff_blade90]

as long as it 1 particular place like the kop & that its still 1 ticket 1 person & we arent trying to stick more than 10,000 in the kop, i can see being fine. but if its everywhere, it will start fights because ive seen the domino effect at away games

 

[Stand United]

as long as it 1 particular place like the kop & that its still 1 ticket 1 person & we arent trying to stick more than 10,000 in the kop, i can see being fine. but if its everywhere, it will start fights because ive seen the domino effect at away games

The criteria for the early adopter pilots is that this be 1:1, so each standard seat replaced with a rail seat for the pilot period at least. Based on how this goes, clubs may be able to expand to say 1:1.5

Where the Kop is concerned, having spoken to some rail seating folk with direct experience of installing this, safe standing as a means to expand the capacity in existing seated areas won't be possible on the Kop - it's just a non-starter based on the existing design.

We also wouldn't, on the Kop at least, be able to simply install barriers next to the existing seats - some clubs, like Wolves, have been able to do that for example and call it rail seating, as they've been able to work that into their design without compromising on space requirements or sight lines.

 

[sheff_blade90]

Based on how this goes, clubs may be able to expand to say 1:1.5

ive been at numerous away games where its effectively standing. knowing how much space ive had then. & then having an extra person in the gap i wouldnt want to be a part of it.

thats a shame that kop is a non starter. because it makes sense, as it where the most noise comes from & would cause least disruption to matchday. but then would fans like to stand knowing they would be in the back few rows of the other stands. because if someone stands on the front row i can see fighting

 

[jt64]

Completed, interested to see the results

 

[Stand United]

ive been at numerous away games where its effectively standing. knowing how much space ive had then. & then having an extra person in the gap i wouldnt want to be a part of it.

thats a shame that kop is a non starter. because it makes sense, as it where the most noise comes from & would cause least disruption to matchday. but then would fans like to stand knowing they would be in the back few rows of the other stands. because if someone stands on the front row i can see fighting

Apologies sheff_blade90, I've probably complicated things with that reply.

Can rail seating go onto the Kop and it be in theory converted into safe standing? Yes
Can it be used to hold more people in it than you can currently get on the Kop? No. But that might be possible elsewhere in the stadium.

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

Still better than the view from the back of the away stand at the rusty bucket, that has got to be the worst view in football, how it ever got chosen for the euro’s or Cup semi’s should be investigated. Makes you wonder if ‘Brown Envelopes’ were involved somewhere along the line..

I assume you don't know about the influence that Dave Richards had?

 

[More Bladier than thou]

Iam happy to fill this in, but what happens with the survey? Where is it sent ? To the club ?

 

[Stand United]

Iam happy to fill this in, but what happens with the survey? Where is it sent ? To the club ?

Thanks Glyn Hodges left foot, most appreciated.

It will indeed be shared with the club - and the results will be shared online too.

 

[YES Blade]

Apologies sheff_blade90, I've probably complicated things with that reply.

Can rail seating go onto the Kop and it be in theory converted into safe standing? Yes
Can it be used to hold more people in it than you can currently get on the Kop? No. But that might be possible elsewhere in the stadium.

So there is no point in installing rail seating on the Kop then. Where else at the Lane would there be interest in standing?

 

[Stand United]

So there is no point in installing rail seating on the Kop then. Where else at the Lane would there be interest in standing?

For me, this has never been about adding capacity, though I know for others this is an important reason for bringing it in. A couple of immediate reasons I’ve always felt are arguments for introducing on the Kop:

- from a safety point of view, it improves areas where there’s already a lot of standing happening – the enhanced safety angle is one that’s attractive to clubs for areas where they can’t enforce seating easily, like the back of the Kop

- if proper rail seating is used, it should actually give you a bit more room than we have currently have. I’ve 5ft9, by no means a big guy, and I find the existing seating there is a bit on the cramped side!

 

[Sheffsteel]

Regards the questionaire there are other factors that might affect the reply.

For example, cost and return on investment is a massive factor.
I read a few year back that a rail seat cost £1000 each. So if we put 5000 seats on the Kop, it would cost the club £5 million just for the seats.

Also the current scheme just advises a 1 for 1 ratio, so no increase in capacity.
In Germany they have a 1 to 1.6 ratio, so their stadia see a decent increase in capacity.

However capacity increase isn’t as simple as standing people tske up less room as a seated person.
You need to consider you would need a bigger concourse areas, more kiosks, more toilets and more turnstyles.

My point is….i‘d love to see SU take part in having a standing area….I suppose we could put 500 standers in the Kop corner stand.

but the sensible approach might be to let other clubs with better suited stadiums take part In the trial.
Sheff Utd should wait 5 years when safe standing is proven to be safe and beneficial.
So the government agree to use the German rules of allowing clubs to fit more people into the seating space/ expand the stadium.
Then Sheff United can re-do the Kop with a massive concourse area, loads of toilets and bars.
Increase capacity on the Kop by another 6K taking our current capacity to 38K.

 

[Rodley]

So there is no point in installing rail seating on the Kop then. Where else at the Lane would there be interest in standing?

I think you are installing safe standing to offer standing to those who wish to and improve the atmosphere. The Kop is the logical place.

Adding a tier or renovating the Kop is a waste of time, corporate types don’t want a crap view at one end of the ground.

The logical steps would be if you established yourself in the PL are to convert the Kop to safe standing (done incrementally over a 5 year spell) and add a tier onto the South Stand with additional boxes and executive seating.

 

[Rodley]

For me, this has never been about adding capacity, though I know for others this is an important reason for bringing it in. A couple of immediate reasons I’ve always felt are arguments for introducing on the Kop:

- from a safety point of view, it improves areas where there’s already a lot of standing happening – the enhanced safety angle is one that’s attractive to clubs for areas where they can’t enforce seating easily, like the back of the Kop

- if proper rail seating is used, it should actually give you a bit more room than we have currently have. I’ve 5ft9, by no means a big guy, and I find the existing seating there is a bit on the cramped side!

Shrewsbury fans raised £75,000 to put 550 seats in. I imagine economies of scale would mean it’s £100-£150 per seat tops.

 

[Stand United]

Shrewsbury fans raised £75,000 to put 550 seats in. I imagine economies of scale would mean it’s £100-£150 per seat tops.

There is a question in the survey with that exactly in mind

 

[Ivanhoe]

I assume you don't know about the influence that Dave Richards had?

I can remember seeing the slimy twat at just about every cup final and presentation of the Premier league title in the nineties.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The logical steps would be if you established yourself in the PL are to convert the Kop to safe standing (done incrementally over a 5 year spell) and add a tier onto the South Stand with additional boxes and executive seating.

Agree….the logical step is

Step 1
Go for a cost effective option on the Kop with a bolt on design….I know people don’t like this idea but it makes financial sense.
Have most of the Kop safe standing and if a 1 to 1.6 ratio is allowed like it is in Germany, we could increase the Kop capacity by at least 5K.
Obviously the new plans would mean a massive undercover concourse area with loads of extra toilets, bars and kiosks all under cover.
We don’t need corporate facilities built under the Kop because there would be plenty of top quality additional facilities in the new South stand.
This would increase capacity to 37K to 38K.

Step 2
Build a second tier on top of the South stand……with plenty of corporate boxes etc.
Also impress visiting players, managers, VIP visitors with bigger/ modern changing rooms, media rooms, managers office, directors box etc.
This would further increase capacity to 43K-44K….this would be plenty even in the PL.
We could even afford to give away fans most of the BLUT…harking back to the days when away teams could bring 6K…would further improve the atmosphere.

Also maybe change the tv cameras from being in the South stand to being placed in the John Street stand
The ground would look better on TV showing off the new mega impressive double tier South stand instead of the fairly small JS stand.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I think there was a better view at Bramall Lane whilst standing. There's got to be more restricted view seats at the Lane than any other stadium in the country since they "Modernised

We’ve probably got the biggest proportion of crap seats in the top two divisions. So safe standing would give a marked improvement to the stadium.

 

[YES Blade]

I think you are installing safe standing to offer standing to those who wish to and improve the atmosphere. The Kop is the logical place.

Adding a tier or renovating the Kop is a waste of time, corporate types don’t want a crap view at one end of the ground.

The logical steps would be if you established yourself in the PL are to convert the Kop to safe standing (done incrementally over a 5 year spell) and add a tier onto the South Stand with additional boxes and executive seating.

Why spend the money when there is no financial return or benefit? I don’t buy into the atmosphere improvement as you’re just going to have the same people stood at the back of the Kop with a rail seat instead of now where they stand up with the existing seats.

The Kop is probably the worst stand in the Championship, so we shouldn’t be wasting money on. Just keep it in a safe condition and knock the whole thing down at some point.

 

[Danetheblade]

Hi all,

I know there are a few threads on the topic already, but hopefully it's ok to create this new one that's related, but slightly different too!

I'm a Unitedite that's been trying to raise rail seating with the club for a number of years now - all the way back to when we had the EFL vote to allow rail seating for clubs like Shrewsbury in League 1. Since then, there have been various moments where I've wanted to try and get a bit more of a fan campaign targeted towards BDTBL specifically, and yesterday's news seemed like a good moment to go live with a survey of fans to try and get a sense of what really is the feeling among fans on safe standing.

From conversations I've had with the club in recent years, it's always been something they have been more-or-less aware of, but in my sense not particulary minded to do much about - that's one of the main reasons for launching the survey. I'm hoping to get a decent sample of fans responding to share with them and hopefully kickstart something - even if it's just inching it a bit further up their priority list.

If you have a spare 5 mins or so to complete the survey, please go to bit.ly/safestandingsufc

If you want to see safe standing at the Lane, please respond. And equally if you really don't want it, I definitely want you to respond too!

UTB, J

p.s. if anyone is interested in getting involved in this, drop me a message!

Just done it bud. Thought I'd post my comment on the debate too. I currently sit in the Westfield upper. If safe standing was introduced to the kop, I'd definitely move my ticket there. Itd also greatly improve the atmosphere at the lane, and I think safe standing if done right would be a great addition to the match day experience.