Our Premier League recruitment has been crap

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Tony_Kaufman said:
The recruitment didn't see us finishing 9th. For the majority of the season our team was Henderson, Stevens, O'Connell, Egan, Basham, Baldock, Fleck, Norwood, Lundstram, McGoldrick, McBurnie.

That's two summer signings and one of them was with us the previous season on loan. One of the reasons we went down the following season is because we recruited so poorly in our first season. Everyone else signed players who went straight into their starting line ups. We signed bench warmers. We couldn't even sell to buy as we had no stand out players to sell for big money other than O'Connell.

Half our players lost form after the restart and we the recruitment the following summer was even worse.

Our recruitment has been terrible for five seasons with an over reliance on loan signings leaving the squad we do own woefully inadequate. Loan signings should supplement your squad, they shouldn't be relied on as your main players as it leaves huge holes when they go back to their parent clubs.

That said our loan signings have been awful this season.
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All of those players you’ve listed (except Basham) were brought in by the same recruitment team. Those players got us to 9th in that first Prem season.

I fully agree that it’s been poor more recently.
 

LJBlade said:
All of those players you’ve listed (except Basham) were brought in by the same recruitment team. Those players got us to 9th in that first Prem season.

I fully agree that it’s been poor more recently.
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They weren't recruited for the Premier League though. The majority were recruited in League One and the Championship.
 
SUFCinks said:
Theses are in addition to the others mentioned. He’s shit in the transfer market. If you think otherwise please feel free to list them all out and suggest which ones have been good. He’s had a handful of successful ones. The majority are punts on naff players. You are rightt that it happens at all clubs but with wilder it happens more than it should.
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Who’s shit in the transfer market? You’ve listed players signed by at least three different managers so I’m not completely sure who you’re talking about now.
 
You have to adequately resource a scouting team, invest in data and analytics. We’re a League 1 recruitment team, with a crap wage budget and having to sell players to fund new signings, trying to compete in the toughest league in the world. Going into a sword fight with a teaspoon.

Time to blame the organ grinder rather than the monkeys.
 
Tony_Kaufman said:
They weren't recruited for the Premier League though. The majority were recruited in League One and the Championship.
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The comment I replied to was about the recruitment team specifically and it made mention of when we were in League One. It wasn’t solely about the Prem recruitment.

Either way, I’d say signing players in League One who then go on to be successful at the top level looks even better.
 
LJBlade said:
Who’s shit in the transfer market? You’ve listed players signed by at least three different managers so I’m not completely sure who you’re talking about now.
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Wilders been here for far more seasons than jovak so i can’t blame him. Hecky and wilder mainly. Our budget isn’t great for the prem. I’m with you and all the others that have said so but we have a -126million net spend for the last 5 seasons, Luton have -12 million, Burnley - 78 mill. So x10 the funding (on transfer) of Luton and a much less competitive team. We have used the market extremely badly.
 
Why is the United world scouting department not getting any blame for this summer.

I can’t believe for a minute that hecky asked for Traore, Larruchi, slimane, Souza.

Did wilder walk back in the door and said lads, I had a meeting with Paul Mitchell and we came up with Grbic.

These signings ripped the heart out of our promotion team.
 
FMBlade1 said:
Of course that isn't a surprising statement but its worth looking back at just how bad its been.

I'm being extremely generous with some of my assessments, based on how they performed for us in the Premier League and not noting what they cost:

For the 2019/2020 season:

Callum Robinson: Failure
Iliman Ndiaye: N/A, huge success in the championship and financially in that we made a profit, but wasn't signed to play in the PL
Luke Freeman: Failure
Phil Jagielka: Ok
Ravel Morrison: Failure
Lys Mousset: Ok in that he scored some vital goals to begin with but eventually a failure
Ben Osborn: Failure in the PL, ok in the championship
Oli McBurnie: Ok
Michael Verrips: Failure
Femi Seriki: N/A, not signed to play in the PL
Jack Rodwell: Failure
Jack Robinson: Ok
Sander Berge: Ok


For the 2020/2021 season:

Wesley Foderingham: Ok
Kacper Lopata: N/A, not signed to play in the PL
Aaron Ramsdale: Eventually ok in that we made a small profit on him, but he contributed significantly to our relegation.
Max Lowe: Failure
Jayden Bogle: Failure in PL but understandable signing as was signed in mind to play well in the championship which he did
Oliver Burke: Failure
Rhian Brewster: Massive failure

For the 2023/2024 season:

Anis Ben Slimane: Failure but understandable signing as sort of player who should do well in the championship to help us get back up, TBC on that
Benie Traore: Failure but understandable signing as sort of player who should do well in the championship to help us get back up, TBC on that
Auston Trusty: Failure in the PL but understandable signing as sort of player who should do well in the championship to help us get back up, TBC on that
Gustavo Hamer: Failure in the PL but understandable signing as sort of player who should do well in the championship to help us get back up, TBC on that
Tom Davies: Failure so far but not anyone's fault
Cameron Archer: Just about ok
Ryan One: N/A, not signed to play in the PL
Sam Curtis: N/A, not signed to play in the PL
Ivo Grbic: Unknown

Yasser Larouci: Failure (though think he has potentially to become a PL player)
James McAtee: Success
Luke Thomas: Failure
Ben Brereton: Success so far but very early days

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So out of roughly 26 signings who were brought in to have a positive impact for us in the PL, barely a handful have done ok or can be considered a success at that level.

I appreciate its a difficult market and we've tried to be creative but that's just crap, someone has to be held accountable for this in the scouting/recruitment department and we must improve in this area if/when we are next back in the PL.
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End THIS is the problem here endth the Lesson.
 
Eric_Brooks said:
Why is the United world scouting department not getting any blame for this summer.

I can’t believe for a minute that hecky asked for Traore, Larruchi, slimane, Souza.

Did wilder walk back in the door and said lads, I had a meeting with Paul Mitchell and we came up with Grbic.

These signings ripped the heart out of our promotion team.
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Possibly same scouting team that Purple Rain complained off that destroyed Beerschott?
 
Luton came up from the championship 10 points behind us.
They have spent £25m, and are now 10 points (aka double) in front of us.
 
I think we needed that other striker. Not really Akpom but someone similar such as Guirassy. McBurnie isn't that target man you want him to be at this level.

We also needed another midfielder in the summer and to have offloaded Fleck then.

The horrific injuries to Basham and Egan is just our luck (with the injuries under Hecky) and left the defence totally unbalanced. I now think it is why Holgate is only a loan deal.

Archer, Souza, Hamer and Trusty I thought were good signings and still are overall. Traore just seems like someone you buy and loan back out. Slimane just seems like a mediocre championship midfielder.

I am not sold on Tom Davies due to his injury history.
 
I agree with the original poster, our PL recruitment has been crap. But that all stems from the lack of investment / lack of a wealthy backer. Yes, what we did buy could have been better but ultimately it comes down to having the financial backing to get proven top class quality rather than gambles like Brewster.

The real killer was the summer before our second season in the PL. That really was the point at which we could attract much better talent (because we were starting to establish ourselves in the PL). But we made a right hash of it and it is the reason why most of the PL money this season went on clearing debts rather than better transfers (if you believe the reasons given by the club - I still think some of the latest PL money has gone out of the club).
 

Might be struggling for decent loan players next season as well,especially from the PL,clubs will be reluctant to let their promising talent go to a shit show if there's no sign of it being sorted in the summer.
 
I actually think our recruitment was decent this season. Premier League is just such a quality league.
 
I don't believe Hecky signed ANY of the listed players. His role was purely to coach the players he was provided with and try a get a tune from them. Only Wilder has been given any rope to make signings (twice now).
 
Barney said:
I actually think our recruitment was decent this season. Premier League is just such a quality league.
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We spent millions on rubbish. The money would have been better used to upgrade the academy and training facilities. That would give hope for the future. Signing crap is just a waste of time.
 
NordicHarry said:
I'm pretty sure someone I know mentioned that Paul Mitchell used to be on sites a few years back now he's our chief scout. Wouldn't mind it if we got our kop developed and not signing fxkin 4 ft 8 children to play for us.

Said it before the networking needs a complete overhaul.
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Why is Paul Mitchell's work history as a young lad relevant? Surely the fact that he's worked his way up through the game deserves some respect?
 
FMBlade1 said:
Of course that isn't a surprising statement but its worth looking back at just how bad its been.

I'm being extremely generous with some of my assessments, based on how they performed for us in the Premier League and not noting what they cost:

For the 2019/2020 season:

Callum Robinson: Failure
Iliman Ndiaye: N/A, huge success in the championship and financially in that we made a profit, but wasn't signed to play in the PL
Luke Freeman: Failure
Phil Jagielka: Ok
Ravel Morrison: Failure
Lys Mousset: Ok in that he scored some vital goals to begin with but eventually a failure
Ben Osborn: Failure in the PL, ok in the championship
Oli McBurnie: Ok
Michael Verrips: Failure
Femi Seriki: N/A, not signed to play in the PL
Jack Rodwell: Failure
Jack Robinson: Ok
Sander Berge: Ok


For the 2020/2021 season:

Wesley Foderingham: Ok
Kacper Lopata: N/A, not signed to play in the PL
Aaron Ramsdale: Eventually ok in that we made a small profit on him, but he contributed significantly to our relegation.
Max Lowe: Failure
Jayden Bogle: Failure in PL but understandable signing as was signed in mind to play well in the championship which he did
Oliver Burke: Failure
Rhian Brewster: Massive failure

For the 2023/2024 season:

Anis Ben Slimane: Failure but understandable signing as sort of player who should do well in the championship to help us get back up, TBC on that
Benie Traore: Failure but understandable signing as sort of player who should do well in the championship to help us get back up, TBC on that
Auston Trusty: Failure in the PL but understandable signing as sort of player who should do well in the championship to help us get back up, TBC on that
Gustavo Hamer: Failure in the PL but understandable signing as sort of player who should do well in the championship to help us get back up, TBC on that
Tom Davies: Failure so far but not anyone's fault
Cameron Archer: Just about ok
Ryan One: N/A, not signed to play in the PL
Sam Curtis: N/A, not signed to play in the PL
Ivo Grbic: Unknown

Yasser Larouci: Failure (though think he has potentially to become a PL player)
James McAtee: Success
Luke Thomas: Failure
Ben Brereton: Success so far but very early days

---

So out of roughly 26 signings who were brought in to have a positive impact for us in the PL, barely a handful have done ok or can be considered a success at that level.

I appreciate its a difficult market and we've tried to be creative but that's just crap, someone has to be held accountable for this in the scouting/recruitment department and we must improve in this area if/when we are next back in the PL.
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With the very fortunate exception of Ramsdale, I’d hazard a guess every single player we signed at this level will leave for a net loss (no accounting bollock, simple fee paid vs fee received).

Ramsdale we benefited from several force majeure I.e. huge recency bias towards his better form after we were already down, he was crap up to Christmas plus Pope and Henderson injured put him at the Euros.

Mousset lost all his fee, Robinson swapped for maybe a million (?) and Burke who then left for nothing, Freeman left for nothing, Berge at a loss of at least 7m. It goes on.

Such a terrible waste of money.
 
Rodley said:
You have to adequately resource a scouting team, invest in data and analytics. We’re a League 1 recruitment team, with a crap wage budget and having to sell players to fund new signings, trying to compete in the toughest league in the world. Going into a sword fight with a teaspoon.

Time to blame the organ grinder rather than the monkeys.
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Do you mean buying Mitch a fresh notepad isn’t enough?
 
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