Our formation and shape vs Derby

[Bergen Blade]

We started playing what is thought to be Wilder's favourite formation 4-2-3-1, like this:

Long

Brayford Wilson O'Connell Hussey

Basham Fleck

Duffy McNulty Done

Sharp​

A screenshot that shows most of the players:



It should be noted that we're trying to be very fluent. While most Blades managers have been very rigid and not put a lot of emphasis on attacking movement off the ball, this is key in Wilder's system. The three players behind Sharp roam around, swap positions, help each other out, try to make themselves available offensively and cover gaps defensively. McNulty tried to link play between midfield and attack. Duffy tried to get on the ball to use his creativity. Done made a lot of runs into the box. Full backs overlap and are the ones providing us with width and crosses.

We struggled to create chances against a very solid Derby side, but hopefully it'll be easier against most League One teams. It is early days still, and the new playing style will take some time to adapt to.

I think it's a good formation, and one where several players can be given roles that suit them while maintaining good balance. I expect Wilder to make tweaks within this formation to make it as effective as possible in each game. He's got some good options and they all offer something a little different.


In the second half we tried switching to 4-4-2 with Clarke and Sharp up front. I think we lost a bit of what Wilder's teams are supposed to be about. The flat midfield four struggled to keep up the pressing and chasing and we looked more stretched, struggling to stay compact and cover enough ground. Maybe fatigue and substitutions played a part as well, but I think it was necessary when Wilder again reverted to 4-2-3-1 when Sharp went off.

I know a lot on here are expecting us to play 4-4-2 with Clarke and Sharp up front. Maybe we can make it work given time, but I think we may be needing a top central midfielder and a pacey (yet solid and hard working) left winger to maintain the same kind of balance that 4-2-3-1 gives us.

 

[TJB.]

Cheers for the insight as ever, Bergen.

Can you envision Clarke and Sharp working together in the 4-2-3-1? Playing Sharp in that slot McNulty was in, possibly?

 

[Harry's Game]

We started playing what is thought to be Wilder's favourite formation 4-2-3-1, like this:

Long

Brayford Wilson O'Connell Hussey

Basham Fleck

Duffy McNulty Done

Sharp​

A screenshot that shows most of the players:

View attachment 18774

It should be noted that we're trying to be very fluent. While most Blades managers have been very rigid and not put a lot of emphasis on attacking movement off the ball, this is key in Wilder's system. The three players behind Sharp roam around, swap positions, help each other out, try to make themselves available offensively and cover gaps defensively. McNulty tried to link play between midfield and attack. Duffy tried to get on the ball to use his creativity. Done made a lot of runs into the box. Full backs overlap and are the ones providing us with width and crosses.

We struggled to create chances against a very solid Derby side, but hopefully it'll be easier against most League One teams. It is early days still, and the new playing style will take some time to adapt to.

I think it's a good formation, and one where several players can be given roles that suit them while maintaining good balance. I expect Wilder to make tweaks within this formation to make it as effective as possible in each game. He's got some good options and they all offer something a little different.


In the second half we tried switching to 4-4-2 with Clarke and Sharp up front. I think we lost a bit of what Wilder's teams are supposed to be about. The flat midfield four struggled to keep up the pressing and chasing and we looked more stretched, struggling to stay compact and cover enough ground. Maybe fatigue and substitutions played a part as well, but I think it was necessary when Wilder again reverted to 4-2-3-1 when Sharp went off.

I know a lot on here are expecting us to play 4-4-2 with Clarke and Sharp up front. Maybe we can make it work given time, but I think we may be needing a top central midfielder and a pacey (yet solid and hard working) left winger to maintain the same kind of balance that 4-2-3-1 gives us.

Not playing Sharp as an out and out striker would be huge error, remember his time playing behind Beattie?

 

[Ricky]

Our plethora of strikers and lack of suitable central midfielders could give us a problem if 4-2-3-1 is going to be the dominant formation.

It could see a square peg in a round hole in the number 10 position too often and consequently negate the benefits of a five man midfield and reduce the effectiveness of the strike partnership.

 

[Bartleby]

Presume you watched this on Bladesplayer? Looking at your screenshot it looks like you got the same quality of video that I did when I started to watch the game earlier today, for me it was unwatchable. BP's now got "new HDPlayer" and "HD" plastered all over the place, and yet the video quality of this game for me was shocking, much inferior to last season.

I'm hoping this is not the same resolution that the league games will be showed or I will be looking for a refund

 

[Rodley]

Like an education every post. Thanks Bergs.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Cheers for the insight as ever, Bergen.

Can you envision Clarke and Sharp working together in the 4-2-3-1? Playing Sharp in that slot McNulty was in, possibly?

It was discussed the other day on a different thread but Kenny Jackett said that Clarke was at his best playing in his preferred position just behind the main striker.

 

[Rodley]

It was discussed the other day on a different thread but Kenny Jackett said that Clarke was at his best playing in his preferred position just behind the main striker.

Wasn't he shite for Wolves? Where did Cov & Bury play him?

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Wasn't he shite for Wolves? Where did Cov & Bury play him?

Yes he was. Also mentioned on the other thread

Still, it's a lower division and it's good to have a few options. It may not be as simple as just 4-4-2 or Sharp being forced to play in the hole behind Clarke.

 

[blade67]

We started playing what is thought to be Wilder's favourite formation 4-2-3-1, like this:

Long

Brayford Wilson O'Connell Hussey

Basham Fleck

Duffy McNulty Done

Sharp​

A screenshot that shows most of the players:

View attachment 18774

It should be noted that we're trying to be very fluent. While most Blades managers have been very rigid and not put a lot of emphasis on attacking movement off the ball, this is key in Wilder's system. The three players behind Sharp roam around, swap positions, help each other out, try to make themselves available offensively and cover gaps defensively. McNulty tried to link play between midfield and attack. Duffy tried to get on the ball to use his creativity. Done made a lot of runs into the box. Full backs overlap and are the ones providing us with width and crosses.

We struggled to create chances against a very solid Derby side, but hopefully it'll be easier against most League One teams. It is early days still, and the new playing style will take some time to adapt to.

I think it's a good formation, and one where several players can be given roles that suit them while maintaining good balance. I expect Wilder to make tweaks within this formation to make it as effective as possible in each game. He's got some good options and they all offer something a little different.


In the second half we tried switching to 4-4-2 with Clarke and Sharp up front. I think we lost a bit of what Wilder's teams are supposed to be about. The flat midfield four struggled to keep up the pressing and chasing and we looked more stretched, struggling to stay compact and cover enough ground. Maybe fatigue and substitutions played a part as well, but I think it was necessary when Wilder again reverted to 4-2-3-1 when Sharp went off.

I know a lot on here are expecting us to play 4-4-2 with Clarke and Sharp up front. Maybe we can make it work given time, but I think we may be needing a top central midfielder and a pacey (yet solid and hard working) left winger to maintain the same kind of balance that 4-2-3-1 gives us.

Bergen

It sounds very similar to the way we set up at Grismby. In that game wilder stuck to 4-2-3-1 even when he brought Mcnulty on and I was surprised by how good Mcnulty looked in that role. Clarke is said to be happy to play a more withdrawn role and I'd be tempted to stick with the pattern set out in numerous games. I agree that it seems to suit a lot of our players and this includes some of the support players meaning team shape can be maintained when we have to change personnel.

As you point out, we are short of a really commanding figure in centre midfield and 4-2-3-1 mitigates this. If we can reinvest any monies coming in in that Pogba lad from Juve, then 4-4-2 would perhaps look more realistic ;-)

 

[LSF]

We started playing what is thought to be Wilder's favourite formation 4-2-3-1, like this:

Long

Brayford Wilson O'Connell Hussey

Basham Fleck

Duffy McNulty Done

Sharp​

A screenshot that shows most of the players:

View attachment 18774

It should be noted that we're trying to be very fluent. While most Blades managers have been very rigid and not put a lot of emphasis on attacking movement off the ball, this is key in Wilder's system. The three players behind Sharp roam around, swap positions, help each other out, try to make themselves available offensively and cover gaps defensively. McNulty tried to link play between midfield and attack. Duffy tried to get on the ball to use his creativity. Done made a lot of runs into the box. Full backs overlap and are the ones providing us with width and crosses.

We struggled to create chances against a very solid Derby side, but hopefully it'll be easier against most League One teams. It is early days still, and the new playing style will take some time to adapt to.

I think it's a good formation, and one where several players can be given roles that suit them while maintaining good balance. I expect Wilder to make tweaks within this formation to make it as effective as possible in each game. He's got some good options and they all offer something a little different.


In the second half we tried switching to 4-4-2 with Clarke and Sharp up front. I think we lost a bit of what Wilder's teams are supposed to be about. The flat midfield four struggled to keep up the pressing and chasing and we looked more stretched, struggling to stay compact and cover enough ground. Maybe fatigue and substitutions played a part as well, but I think it was necessary when Wilder again reverted to 4-2-3-1 when Sharp went off.

I know a lot on here are expecting us to play 4-4-2 with Clarke and Sharp up front. Maybe we can make it work given time, but I think we may be needing a top central midfielder and a pacey (yet solid and hard working) left winger to maintain the same kind of balance that 4-2-3-1 gives us.

You are far more technical and dedicated than I'll ever be, and I kind of said this in another thread on the Derby performance.(albeit much condensed and less eloquent)
The interchange between the six players up the field was quite noticeable and maybe a pointer to how we intend to go about business this season.
The addition of Clarke gives this method extra dimension too, as he brings qualities that weren't at the club before his arrival.

 

[Grizzly blade]

I watched most of the game on BP, and although we didn't create many chances it was a decent run out for the team.
Few observations from me.....

1. Derby showed that we are still a long way off in terms of ball retention high up the pitch. We saw flashes of it, and it may be that as players get fitter, understand the system and become more confident that it will improve. As we should expect Derby were much better at keeping it under pressure and playing their way out of our high tempo, high pressure game plan. We were often guilty of taking too much time across the pitch and then having crosses, passes and shots blocked.

2. Basham ain't the best at moving the ball quickly. Passes are off target and we lose momentum in our play. Again, he brings other attributes to the team but I often thought he wasn't much help to Fleck....who looks a tidy player on the ball.

3. McNulty looked very useful. He maybe could have tested the keeper a few times, but overall I thought his play was good. Decent touch, a few nice little reverses and clever passes, and also looked quite nippy. I also watched him work very hard and cover for the full back several times. The formation suited him.

4. Done didn't have much success, I think he's best suited to being on the end of stuff more than anything. I see him as a striker, and so either him or Sharp in the side.

5. Long really needs to speed it up. Indecision with distribution....shall I throw it....shall I pass it short....TOO BLOODY LATE! Often resulted in a long kick...with that bit of slice he adds making it very hard for the forwards. I much prefer him giving it to one of the CB's to bring out, as his kicking isn't good enough. Again, said it a lot but he always looks nervous and low on confidence so this may improve hopefully.

6. Brayford couldn't cross a dog....unusual because his crossing isn't usually that poor. Let's hope it was just pre season rustiness. But defensively we looked fairly organised, and although Derby did open us up a couple of times, particularly with simple long balls forwards on the whole I thought we did OK. Again, understanding and communication will improve with a settle side over time. Like the look of Hussey.


So going forward, the back 5 pick themselves. Fleck and Duffy are likely to start as is Sharp and Clarke. So the rest of the squad will be vying for 2 starting spots most of the time, With Done and McNulty competing for the forward position, and probably Basham and a new signing (hopefully) competing for a role alongside Fleck. I don't see Adams making it to the start of the season in the squad, and I see DCL, and the other youth lads being used sporadically from the bench. Scougs and will only be used in a 4-2-3-1 in the 3, while I see all of the listed players being lucky to make the bench. Overall, we have a decent squad, with options but perhaps still a little light in out and out skill and creativity. Just a shame we won't be able to keep Adams as I think he could fill that role well and be a big threat if we kept him.

 

[Chali 2na]

We started playing what is thought to be Wilder's favourite formation 4-2-3-1, like this:

Long

Brayford Wilson O'Connell Hussey

Basham Fleck

Duffy McNulty Done

Sharp​

A screenshot that shows most of the players:

View attachment 18774

It should be noted that we're trying to be very fluent. While most Blades managers have been very rigid and not put a lot of emphasis on attacking movement off the ball, this is key in Wilder's system. The three players behind Sharp roam around, swap positions, help each other out, try to make themselves available offensively and cover gaps defensively. McNulty tried to link play between midfield and attack. Duffy tried to get on the ball to use his creativity. Done made a lot of runs into the box. Full backs overlap and are the ones providing us with width and crosses.

We struggled to create chances against a very solid Derby side, but hopefully it'll be easier against most League One teams. It is early days still, and the new playing style will take some time to adapt to.

I think it's a good formation, and one where several players can be given roles that suit them while maintaining good balance. I expect Wilder to make tweaks within this formation to make it as effective as possible in each game. He's got some good options and they all offer something a little different.


In the second half we tried switching to 4-4-2 with Clarke and Sharp up front. I think we lost a bit of what Wilder's teams are supposed to be about. The flat midfield four struggled to keep up the pressing and chasing and we looked more stretched, struggling to stay compact and cover enough ground. Maybe fatigue and substitutions played a part as well, but I think it was necessary when Wilder again reverted to 4-2-3-1 when Sharp went off.

I know a lot on here are expecting us to play 4-4-2 with Clarke and Sharp up front. Maybe we can make it work given time, but I think we may be needing a top central midfielder and a pacey (yet solid and hard working) left winger to maintain the same kind of balance that 4-2-3-1 gives us.

Good post Bergen, as per.

 

[Bartleby]

I watched most of the game on BP

as per my post earlier, what did you you think to the video quality? For me it was far worse than usual.

 

[Dnblade]

as per my post earlier, what did you you think to the video quality? For me it was far worse than usual.

Had a scan through the first half last night and agree the video quality seems worse..It was noticeable that we play a higher tempo,and try and move the ball quiclkly and press the opposition trying to win the ball back high up the pitch...Looked a bit frantic at times and kept losing possession..early days though and I don't read to much into friendlies..a few more tweaks needed.

 

[Grizzly blade]

as per my post earlier, what did you you think to the video quality? For me it was far worse than usual.

It was crap....however I suspect it was just because the tv cameras weren't there. Seemed to have been filmed by a camera they use to film academy games.
Normal service will be resumed I'm sure.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Cheers for the insight as ever, Bergen.

Can you envision Clarke and Sharp working together in the 4-2-3-1? Playing Sharp in that slot McNulty was in, possibly?

As said above Clarke has some experience in that role, but it's difficult to say how he'll do. Not sure about Sharp either. One weakness about our starting line up vs Derby was a lack of aerial threat, meaning we tried to cross low every time. Derby's centre halves realised this and attacked the ball well. Brayford got some criticism, rightly, but with the instruction to whip the ball in with pace it can be difficult to maintain accuracy. Again, most League One defenders won't be as solid and I'm hopeful we'll score a lot of goals this season. We are looking to do things the right way in my opinion.

I'm glad we have some good options now and look forward to seeing which combinations are proving most effective.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Presume you watched this on Bladesplayer? Looking at your screenshot it looks like you got the same quality of video that I did when I started to watch the game earlier today, for me it was unwatchable. BP's now got "new HDPlayer" and "HD" plastered all over the place, and yet the video quality of this game for me was shocking, much inferior to last season.

I'm hoping this is not the same resolution that the league games will be showed or I will be looking for a refund

Yes, the quality was worse than most games last season (which wasn't great either). There are six minutes of highlights on Derby's Player, in much better quality, meaning United are probably reducing the quality on purpose. I am thankful for the full game videos though and my biggest gripe is with the excess zooming.

For this game there was also a sniper cross in the middle of the screen (tried to hide it on the screenshot).

 

[Rodley]

Yes, the quality was worse than most games last season (which wasn't great either). There are six minutes of highlights on Derby's Player, in much better quality, meaning United are probably reducing the quality on purpose. I am thankful for the full game videos though and my biggest gripe is with the excess zooming.

For this game there was also a sniper cross in the middle of the screen (tried to hide it on the screenshot).

Of the new signings, who do you think will have the most beneficial impact on our performances?

 

[Bergen Blade]

Our plethora of strikers and lack of suitable central midfielders could give us a problem if 4-2-3-1 is going to be the dominant formation.

It could see a square peg in a round hole in the number 10 position too often and consequently negate the benefits of a five man midfield and reduce the effectiveness of the strike partnership.

Striker role: Sharp (poacher), Clarke (target man), McNulty (poacher)

Wide forwards: Done, Duffy, DCL, Adams, loan player?

No 10 role: McNulty, Adams, Scougall, Clarke


Personally I think we have some good options for these positions and think we should expect goals from all of them. As Blades fans we have to get used to a winger not being what it used to be though. Done, for example, is an ordinary winger (in terms of creativity, getting crosses in, passing), but I'm hopeful he'll run riot, cause problems and score regularly in the wide forward role.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Of the new signings, who do you think will have the most beneficial impact on our performances?

If pushed I'd say Fleck, but really I'm optimistic about all of them and like the mix of players Wilder is putting together. Just have to hope we get a good start and that the players gel.

 

[Bartleby]

Yes, the quality was worse than most games last season (which wasn't great either). There are six minutes of highlights on Derby's Player, in much better quality, meaning United are probably reducing the quality on purpose. I am thankful for the full game videos though and my biggest gripe is with the excess zooming.

For this game there was also a sniper cross in the middle of the screen (tried to hide it on the screenshot).

as I mentioned above they seem to be promising HD so I'm hoping for an improvement when the season proper starts. Hopefully this was cos proper cameras weren't ther as Grizzly blade said, or a deliberate thing as you say. With that sniper cross as well and no sound I didn't bother with it.

But as I only get to Saturday home games I'm thankful for BP as well, think it's good value.

 

[Ricky]

Striker role: Sharp (poacher), Clarke (target man), McNulty (poacher)

Wide forwards: Done, Duffy, DCL, Adams, loan player?

No 10 role: McNulty, Adams, Scougall, Clarke


Personally I think we have some good options for these positions and think we should expect goals from all of them. As Blades fans we have to get used to a winger not being what it used to be though. Done, for example, is an ordinary winger (in terms of creativity, getting crosses in, passing), but I'm hopeful he'll run riot, cause problems and score regularly in the wide forward role.

It's not only one of the wide positions that could be unconventional, it's the number 10 position as well because none of them are made for that role. It remains to be seen whether it can work. It'll depend on their understanding with each other as much as anything tactical/positional. I'd definitely add DCL to those who could play behind the striker though, in fact I think he could be the best option. He's tidy, sharp and has decent awareness, and he's no stranger to playing in central midfield, it's where he started I believe, before converting to a striker.

 

[BushBlade]

It's not only one of the wide positions that could be unconventional, it's the number 10 position as well because none of them are made for that role. It remains to be seen whether it can work. It'll depend on their understanding with each other as much as anything tactical/positional. I'd definitely add DCL to those who could play behind the striker though, in fact I think he could be the best option. He's tidy, sharp and has decent awareness, and he's no stranger to playing in central midfield, it's where he started I believe, before converting to a striker.

Isn't that where Wilder played him at Northampton? Only saw bits but I think he was more of middle of a three than an out and out striker.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

For this game there was also a sniper cross in the middle of the screen (tried to hide it on the screenshot).

Perhaps the club were hoping that Woolford would get a game. Another one of the wage bill.