Midfield energy. McAtee and Doyle. Boro v Stoke.

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Deadbat said:
Doyle I'm not still not convinced by and a lot of the the cries for the inclusion of him are based in the poor form as others. He played brilliantly v Spurs but rarely lasts 65 mins in the league. He was as bad as the rest in a lot of the recent league games.

I think McAtee and Ndiaye off McBurnie and a three behind of Doyle, Norwood & someone with some legs...don't know who...not sure Coulibaly is that player really and Fleck/Berge are not either. Chuck Bash in? Not always worked but might have to be an option. Shows the dearth of midfield options.
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The fact that our ‘first choice’ are so poor has meant that Doyle and Coulibaly have been elevated to world beaters. When it becomes clear that they aren’t we’ll be back to square one.
 

CarlMcBlade said:
I think the wing backs are the important bit of the equation here. If they could take their defensive duties more seriously, we wouldn’t be so exposed down the flanks. Bogle and Lowe damage the defensive structure of the team because they’re crap defenders.
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Starting both of them in any tricky away game is a no no, and it shouldn't be difficult for the manager to spot that

We've got about 10 games left of Clark. He's just sat on the bench since coming back. Time to get him back in, and move Robinson to LWB. And Baldock on the right. Cut off Sunderland's wingers and they have little supply line
 
CaptainMorgans said:
I think we'd lose the midfield battle because none of those players roll their sleeves up and battle.

Ndiaye isn't a great link man. He tries to do everything on his own. He's great playing off a front man when he, and players around him, are on it.

We miss players like Duffy and McGoldrick. Genuine link men, who slowed play down at the top of the pitch and allowed us to get forward in numbers.
Berge can play a version of that role, as we saw way back in August / September, but he's given it up.
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This is it for me. We find it so difficult to build any sort of attack lately, unless it's a long punt or NDiaye wriggles out of a difficult situation on his own.

We had exactly the same problem under Wilder whenever we played with the flat midfield three.

We need a link up player in there. McAtee or Berge are probably the best options.
 
Deadbat said:
. Shows the dearth of midfield options.
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It does

But also shows we are putting square pegs in round holes or not getting the best from…

Ndaiye - one of the best prospects in the division
Berge - international allegedly pursued by top teams in Jan
Doyle - player of ‘special quality’ Pep quote
McAtee - ‘exceptional player’ Pep again
Coulibaly - 2021 AC Milan bid rejected, great prospect
Norwood - promoted 3 years running, best midfielder in division by stats this season
Fleck - way past his best but should still be good for 15-20 mins
Osborn - can do a spoiler job with energy

Used correctly, Those options should be capable of dominating 90% of the teams in this division

I can only surmise they are been used properly or aren’t motivated correctly?
 
Think we all know Hecky won’t drop his favourites, fully expect Berge and Norwood to start tonight.
 
Trafford said:
Opposition managers have commented several times about changing their tactics to combat Norwood and it’s working, so play Doyle as well as Norwood, not instead of Norwood, and we still have an outlet. Keep McAtee for impact as a sub.
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Doyle & Norwood in front of a back four of Baldock Anel Egan JLT or Clark is the answer but PH would never do it, too radical
 
Basics in football if you don't change players playing Crap they carry on playing crap
 
Birdwell Blade said:
So what you’re all saying is you’d all pick a different midfield from the next person? Imagine being a manager under pressure to get it right.
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The variety of opinions is around how to change it.

There's pretty much a total consensus that the current set up a) isn't working, b) is more helpful to our opponents than to ourselves and c) cannot remain the default 'go-to' option.

derekacorah said:
The fact that our ‘first choice’ are so poor has meant that Doyle and Coulibaly have been elevated to world beaters. When it becomes clear that they aren’t we’ll be back to square one.
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Fair point, but it clearly needs changing. Right now it's the definition of insanity. Fear of making a change is keeping players in the team who are

Will I forgive the fringe players for looking a bit raw, making the odd mistake and taking a few games to get up to speed? Yes. There's more to come from them. Other players have been afforded weeks and months to get up to speed after injury etc.

Will I forgive Norwood giving the ball away in dangerous areas and exposing us to counters time and time again, and Fleck for repeatedly having a 1 yard start in a 2 yard race and losing by 1 yard? No. Neither player is going to improve or get faster.
 
YoungBlade31 said:
The fact that Boro drew has really put more pressure on us this game. Come on lads. Really good chance to make the gap 6 points now
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If they had won the pressure would have been bad - as it is we almost have a free hit to play without fear against a team who were mangled 5-1 in their last home game - the teams in this league apart from us and Burnley are gash imo

We should really go for it - get a 6 point margin and the pressure is then all on Midds as they cannot really afford to make any more mistakes
 
Hamandcheese said:
Starting both of them in any tricky away game is a no no, and it shouldn't be difficult for the manager to spot that

We've got about 10 games left of Clark. He's just sat on the bench since coming back. Time to get him back in, and move Robinson to LWB. And Baldock on the right. Cut off Sunderland's wingers and they have little supply line
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Yup

Agree
 
Whether Hecky wants a win or a draw , picking a slow ponderous midfield will not help
 

steve26272 said:
It does

But also shows we are putting square pegs in round holes or not getting the best from…

Ndaiye - one of the best prospects in the division
Berge - international allegedly pursued by top teams in Jan
Doyle - player of ‘special quality’ Pep quote
McAtee - ‘exceptional player’ Pep again
Coulibaly - 2021 AC Milan bid rejected, great prospect
Norwood - promoted 3 years running, best midfielder in division by stats this season
Fleck - way past his best but should still be good for 15-20 mins
Osborn - can do a spoiler job with energy

Used correctly, Those options should be capable of dominating 90% of the teams in this division

I can only surmise they are been used properly or aren’t motivated correctly?
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That Stoke lad with the bald head is worth two Berge's. Do a swap with Stoke, Hecky. Throw in a case of Tuborg with it.
 
Working Class Hero said:
This is it for me. We find it so difficult to build any sort of attack lately, unless it's a long punt or NDiaye wriggles out of a difficult situation on his own.

We had exactly the same problem under Wilder whenever we played with the flat midfield three.

We need a link up player in there. McAtee or Berge are probably the best options.
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The annoying thing is, Berge can actually do it. I haven't forgotten the early season performances where he looked like the best player in the division.
Gliding around on the ball at the top of the park.

He just doesn't seem to want it enough.
 
Bell4 said:
If they had won the pressure would have been bad - as it is we almost have a free hit to play without fear against a team who were mangled 5-1 in their last home game - the teams in this league apart from us and Burnley are gash imo
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Fixed it for you..
 
CaptainMorgans said:
The annoying thing is, Berge can actually do it. I haven't forgotten the early season performances where he looked like the best player in the division.
Gliding around on the ball at the top of the park.

He just doesn't seem to want it enough.
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Play the man up front morgs with ndiaye behind mcburnie


DO IT PAUL DO IT
 
CaptainMorgans said:
Blackpool at home is the one that stands out.
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Reasonable to assume that the gaffer won’t go with McAtee and Doyle in the same side tonight…although he probably will on Sunday.

I believe that they have only started 2 league games together - Blackpool (H) and Stoke (A). The latter was through necessity rather than choice when the side was cobbled together from who was left standing in our injury nadir (Gordon and Basham in a back 4 and Khadra up front), and Blackpool was when Hecky had the idea of taking on a team of giants with his smallest possible XI.

Against that, Macca and Doyle started together at Millwall and Wrexham in the Cup as well as at home to Spurs.
 
Norwood is still our No1 midfielder. But I think we’re working him too hard. I also think he is be better suited to opposition who don’t do the high press. He always seems to get closed down easily in possession.
 
Young players eh?

David Brooks was MoM on Bouncing Day, but it always strikes me how the co-commentator mentions that he switched off and didn't track his man for the equaliser that started all that temporary bouncing.

With McAtee in particular I'd expect lots of excitement and energy going forward with the ball, and all sorts of lapses of concentration and costly inexperience without the ball.

Cost/Benefit.
 
You can never second guess a United starting 11 these days, but I'll have a stab at it....

Sharp

Fleck Ndiaey Brewster Berge

Robbo Joc Mcburnie Egan

Fodders McCall


Subs:
Burke
Lundstram
Beattie
Warnock
Currie

UTMB
 

CaptainMorgans said:
The annoying thing is, Berge can actually do it. I haven't forgotten the early season performances where he looked like the best player in the division.
Gliding around on the ball at the top of the park.

He just doesn't seem to want it enough.
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Berge needs to play 20 yds further up the pitch,he's a liability playing deep,too easily outfought, he has no 'devil' in his personality,needs to be ghosting past defenders in wide areas or sliding passes between defenders,it's about round pegs in round holes for me, that's when he looks a 20m+ player
 
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