McCabe, our plight and the apologists ...

[Esablade]

You're the one who thinks its "not a bad return" so google it and find an independent opinion.

Yeah, we've established that, and given the finances of the club, I'd stand by it.

so what do you think he should charge?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Yeah, we've established that, so what do you think he should charge?

As I've said, you tell me. I've asked you a series of questions you've not answered one.

Do a google search about commercial property returns and learn something. Knowledge is good, infinitely better than being a wum with little genuine understanding of a subject.

 

[Esablade]

As I've said, you tell me. I've asked you a series of questions you've not answered one.

Do a google search about commercial property returns and learn something. Knowledge is good, infinitely better than being a wum with little genuine understanding of a subject.

T'owd Barney 's right...you do seem to struggle with these simple questions Scott ..lol..

P.S what questions?
You've simple bounced my question back at me

 

[BushBlade]

Surprised on the flats. Wouldn't have thought Sharrow would command £250-£260 psf. Seems strong to me.

That's because I wasn't giving square foot prices. I just looked on Rightmove. I'm not spending all morning doing a development appraisal for a hypothetical argument.

 

[Sean Thornton]

T'owd Barney 's right...you do seem to struggle with these simple questions Scott ..lol..

Well seeing as all we've had today from you - like most days - are unquantifiable "guesses" sly inferences, amazing ignorance and some mendacity, forgive me if I leave you in the world of wummery, where you feel safe and warm.

 

[Sean Thornton]

That's because I wasn't giving square foot prices. I just looked on Rightmove. I'm not spending all morning doing a development appraisal for a hypothetical argument.

You could have just guessed and then changed the subject. You know the rules, you've been on here a long time!

 

[Sean Thornton]

Anyway, I'm just waiting for SBT to appear to deal with the OP

 

[Bartyblade]

That's because I wasn't giving square foot prices. I just looked on Rightmove. I'm not spending all morning doing a development appraisal for a hypothetical argument.

You have to calculate the 'rate of return'
9 - 12% is usually seen as good, over 15% excellent!
Mentioned all the time on 'Homes under the Hammer' but still I've not got a clue about what it actually means or how they workit out in terms of rents charged

 

[Barney]

T'owd Barney 's right...you do seem to struggle with these simple questions Scott ..lol..

I've still not quite got over the discussion our good old Sean T was involved in the other day. Straight from the book of Sean Thornton; Apparently who owns the ground has no importance to anything at all.

After all, what does a ground matter to a football club?...

 

[Supermatic]

I always wonder why McCabe bothered to get planning permission for the flats at the corners of Shoreham, Cherry and John Street and then just leave it? What was it, 2 or 3 years ago? May even be approaching the time when he has to re-apply to keep the permission active? Must have cost about 150k on applications, agents fees and s106's which, in the grand scheme of things, is no great shakes to a man of his wealth but that's a decent chunk of money taken out of the club, if indeed it came from club coffers.

Seems strange that such a huge property mogul as 'our Kev' can't or won't build a few poxy apartments that could soon be earning him a nice little profit?

 

[BushBlade]

You have to calculate the 'rate of return'
9 - 12% is usually seen as good, over 15% excellent!
Mentioned all the time on 'Homes under the Hammer' but still I've not got a clue about what it actually means or how they workit out in terms of rents charged

With all due respect, I work in property. And as I've said, I'm not doing something I can get paid for, for nowt, to satisfy an argument on a message board.

 

[Esablade]

Well seeing as all we've had today from you - like most days - are unquantifiable "guesses" sly inferences, amazing ignorance and some mendacity, forgive me if I leave you in the world of wummery, where you feel safe and warm.

I'll ask for one more...you never know, Scott, you might be able to answer this one.

What budget do you think McCabe is aiming for per year? What clubs should we be comparing ourselves with?

 

[Maidenhead]

One rumour from a bitter obsessive on BM.

Why not say £360k then?

Property with a balance sheet value based on cost less depreciation of around £24m gets a return of only 1.5% in rental income. Not a bad return. Lol.

This guess, what's the land clearance cost, planning and legal fees, number of plots, type of properties, building costs and estimated sale price of each plot?

I'm not letting any of my properties (if I had em) for less than 7% yield so if the yield on BDTBL gives McCabe a yield of 1.5% then be careful what you wish for.

Blimey, it's about time I did buy some property. I'm having a right time trying to get 1.5% on my bank balances.

 

[Maidenhead]

You have to calculate the 'rate of return'
9 - 12% is usually seen as good, over 15% excellent!
Mentioned all the time on 'Homes under the Hammer' but still I've not got a clue about what it actually means or how they workit out in terms of rents charged

That's TV mate. It's not real life

 

[Robby Blade]

I'm not letting any of my properties (if I had em) for less than 7% yield so if the yield on BDTBL gives McCabe a yield of 1.5% then be careful what you wish for.

Blimey, it's about time I did buy some property. I'm having a right time trying to get 1.5% on my bank balances.

The clue is in the "bank balances".

 

[Rodley]

With all due respect, I work in property. And as I've said, I'm not doing something I can get paid for, for nowt, to satisfy an argument on a message board.

Come on, you must have done a fag packet on BDTBL, any self respecting property Blade has surely?

 

[blade too long]

the o p
again lumps what we all know on to mccabes back
sheff utd have always been under funded and as so sold our players, a selling club , from selling mick jones and alan birchenall right through to now.
mccabes funded us through some good seasons , but of late weve slid back and become mediocre
some of it is his fault , some managers incompetence , but mainly results are down to players
we have had players let us down endlessly of late
from ched getting sent down to Baxter being a smackhead but mainly too many going backwards a la Brayford
when weve taken on championship quality players theyve turned out to be div 2 quailty players hiding at their respective clubs
weve sold one decent player per season on average , which in theory we should be able to cope with, but due to either poor replacements or no replacements in Adkins case
we have trod water for 6 years and are treading water with heavy boots on now
but its not irretrievable, 4 games is not season defining
the panic threads are totting up with only 126 points left to play for

we all want a fairy god chairman with a container ship full of 50 pound notes
thats highly unlikely so we have to knuckle down and do what we did in the eighties, fight our way out

and football changed immensely
what were piddling little clubs have in some cases overtook us through investment
or having backing of more than one person

 

[VLYDONIMIR]

Until then the only alternative to McCabe family ownership is liquidation and the Northern Counties East League.

woah woah..
slow down Champ...

County Senior before NCEL...

 

[Bladesince59]

I always wonder why McCabe bothered to get planning permission for the flats at the corners of Shoreham, Cherry and John Street and then just leave it? What was it, 2 or 3 years ago? May even be approaching the time when he has to re-apply to keep the permission active? Must have cost about 150k on applications, agents fees and s106's which, in the grand scheme of things, is no great shakes to a man of his wealth but that's a decent chunk of money taken out of the club, if indeed it came from club coffers.

Seems strange that such a huge property mogul as 'our Kev' can't or won't build a few poxy apartments that could soon be earning him a nice little profit?

He could shift a whole lot more when we playing at Shirecliffe in the Conference

 

[blade too long]

What clubs should we be comparing ourselves with?

other league one clubs as we are the 8th longest serving club at present in here

 

[Esablade]

other league one clubs as we are the 8th longest serving club at present in here

So, financial, we should be aiming for a model similar to say... AFC Wimbledon or Rochdale or some such?

 

[Mad Mick]

Commercial property is totally different to residential property. Generally the yield/rent should be about 4%. It does vary of course on type of property and geography. Interestingly when capital values fall, yield increases.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

Is this better ...

Despite scepticism from McCabe apologists on here, most vehemently in my case from SBT, I feel that this man is most responsible for our dire plight and that the reason for this is evidenced in what I feel is an erudite analysis of his intentions at United offered by Bell and Armstrong in their book ‘Fit and Proper’ (2010).

We have always in my lifetime of supporting the Blades been a selling club – I experienced this particularly at the time chairman Wragg sanctioned the sale of the best centre forward I ever saw in a Blades’ shirt – Mick Jones – for a paltry £100K to Leeds; a sale the excellent Peter Howard, Blades’ reporter at the Star then, eloquently opposed for meaning the systemic selling of our ‘best’ for ‘inferior’ replacements.

What seems to have changed under McCabe is, like capitalism under neoliberalism, this systemic process has been exacerbated: the sale of both Kyles at the same time setting the president for a process that has continued through to Che Adams (I’m less inclined to include Brayford here, who seems to have clearly lost his love of us).

What Bell and Armstrong suggest seems to chime with my feelings. Under McCabe, “Sheffield United had become merely a subsidiary of [his] worldwide business empire. United were essentially a 21st century ‘factory team’ and, as Jason Rockett revealed in 2009, the footballing arm of an international property development company. Many British football clubs are owned by overseas investors but, uniquely, McCabe used his football to promote his global business interests” (page 378 SBT, in case you want to re-read this).

According to Bell and Armstrong, none of McCabe’s ventures – Ferencvaros, Chengdu Five Bull, Central Coast Mariners (maybe add the purchase of our stadium, training facilities, hotel development?) – appeared to benefit the football team. Indeed, “McCabe reportedly became personally wealthier to the tune of £150 million from the Valed deal [part of the Central Coast Mariners’ deal) … “ (page 378).

How SBT has the audacity to claim my representation of Bell and Armstrong’s assessment of McCabe is false is beyond belief – unless he is a cousin. What is more concerning, however, is that, given this assessment of McCabe – and what I feel is a plausible explanation of our current plight – what’s to be done to end his reign at the Lane, given his current stranglehold over the club? What seems certain is that, unless he changes his priorities immediately, and supports Wilder with the financial resources to bring in some quality in the next week, we are heading for the fourth tier in a handcart …

Mmm. I`ve frequently and vehemently made it abundantly clear I hold McCabe ultimately responsible for our demise and current perilous state. There are however,events within that timspan that were not attributable to him by anyone but the most deluded,blinkered McCabe hater,ie appallingly bad signings by a number of managers.
Quite why I`ve got special mention in your rehashing of ancient arguements and counter arguements only you know.
Not sure to be pleased or concerned I have clearly made an indelible impression on you so think I`ll settle for not giving a crap and getting ready to deal with tomorrows inevitable slow motion car crash.

 

[blade too long]

So, financial, we should be aiming for a model similar to say... AFC Wimbledon or Rochdale or some such?

we have more fans , but have a bigger stadium to pay for ,
a team with 6000 regulars cuts iot cloth by needing less gate staff security smaller policing bills less ground staff, might only have one or 2 in the club shop , 2 in the tickert office where we have 8
football income gets less defined by its attendance every year
those with 60k plus do get more income , but through much bigger corporate income

 

[Esablade]

we have more fans , but have a bigger stadium to pay for ,
a team with 6000 regulars cuts iot cloth by needing less gate staff security smaller policing bills less ground staff, might only have one or 2 in the club shop , 2 in the tickert office where we have 8
football income gets less defined by its attendance every year
those with 60k plus do get more income , but through much bigger corporate income

So I'll ask again, do you think we should be aiming for a similar budget to those clubs?

It's not a trick question...

P.S- and it's the 'fans fault' cause they keep coming in such numbers and that's expensive?

Seems to be what you're saying?

 

[blade too long]

So I'll ask again, do you think we should be aiming for a similar budget to those clubs?

It's not a trick question...

P.S- and it's the 'fans fault' cause they keep coming in such numbers and that's expensive?

Seems to be what you're saying?

we aim at what we can afford
if you run a business you set a budget to fit into your expected income
we get 5 million or there abouts from 19000 x 275 average st income allowing for kids and oaps
out of that comes wages running costs insurances stewarding
we pay 4 officials the ref and his team over 400k a year in fees now, I only just found out
policing costs us 500k , theres 1 fifth gone
leaves us 4m towards our 8 m wage bill

team like southend get 2m gate income but only have a 3m wage bill

they lose 1m we are down 4m

 

[Esablade]

we aim at what we can afford
if you run a business you set a budget to fit into your expected income
we get 5 million or there abouts from 19000 x 275 average st income allowing for kids and oaps
out of that comes wages running costs insurances stewarding
we pay 4 officials the ref and his team over 400k a year in fees now, I only just found out
policing costs us 500k , theres 1 fifth gone
leaves us 4m towards our 8 m wage bill

team like southend get 2m gate income but only have a 3m wage bill

they lose 1m we are down 4m

Football is slightly different to 'most businesses' though, as I'm sure you'd agree...most clubs run at a loss, and have a generous benefactor who subsidises the clubs till they get fed up with it, are forced out or they succeed, look across at our porcine neighbours....

I'll change the question slightly because you appear to be struggling.

Do you think our playing/staff wage bill should be similar to say Rochdale's?

 

[blade too long]

Football is slightly different to 'most businesses' though, as I'm sure you'd agree...most clubs run at a loss, and have a generous benefactor who subsidises the clubs till they get fed up with it, are forced out or they succeed, look across at our porcine neighbours....

I'll change the question slightly because you appear to be struggling.

Do you think our playing/staff wage bill should be similar to say Rochdale's?

well we are a staff of wholly league one players now , so probably yes
there are no longer any of the team that played in the championship with us, thats been regular first team players
so should get league one wages
our porcine neighbours did what we did , lose a play off final
we treat it as utter failure
why should we see wednesday doing it as being successful
in 17 years since leaving the prem theyve come close once
we still have done much better weve still collected far more points since 2000

football has the speculation aspect that differs to normal business
but
if you spend like we did the first season down and fail like we did it has knock on effects

newcastle will have a shit or bust attitude in the championship
if they don't get up it could be catastrophic for them

 

[Esablade]

well we are a staff of wholly league one players now , so probably yes
there are no longer any of the team that played in the championship with us, thats been regular first team players
so should get league one wages
our porcine neighbours did what we did , lose a play off final
we treat it as utter failure
why should we see wednesday doing it as being successful
in 17 years since leaving the prem theyve come close once
we still have done much better weve still collected far more points since 2000

...so what's the point of these multi-millionaire co-chairmen if the club has to 'stand on its own two feet'?

What's the plan to take the club forwards here?

Re: the pigs...they appear to have a plan to take the club forwards by injecting cash into the playing side...we appear clueless in most aspects whilst slashing cost's all round.

 

[blade too long]

...so what's the point of these multi-millionaire co-chairmen if the club has to 'stand on its own two feet'?

What's the plan to take the club forwards here?

Re: the pigs...they appear to have a plan to take the club forwards by injecting cash into the playing side...we appear clueless in most aspects whilst slashing cost's all round.

do they it seems very similar to ours
invest as much as you dare and hope to win a play off
like us they failed
and now started with a win due to a goal keeping error a draw and 2 league defeats
and losing in the EFL to a 2nd division club

I still dont get some blades praising Wednesdays efforts
it baffles me, nay disturbs me