Is it time to debate clough failed tenure

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Fiery Blade said:
Whilst the majority on here seem to want to castigate Clough for all United's ills - I for one was really disappointed that he didn't make it work!
He signed some good players Brayford,Done and Adams excellent examples, but he is also responsible for some that didn't or hasn't worked out as well as both he and the rest of the support expected namely Higdon, Alcock, James Wallace, Coutts, MacArthy, MacGahey et al ! He was also the manager that oversaw Maguires departure to Hull City .......how much say he had we will never know !
He was obstinate and belligerent over Collins, Butler, JCR but we don't know the true story................ !
However, unfortunately despite all the hype Mr Adkins is faring little better
He has signed a good player Sharp, but he is also responsible for the purchase or loans of Woolford, Edgar, Sammon, who are little better (or not) than what we already had at our disposal.............. he also made MacEverley captain and Edgar is looking just as bad a loan as MacArthy did ! - So much for recruiting from higher divisions !
He is the manager that oversaw the sale of Jamie Murphy, again how much saw he had we will never know !
Performances have been ordinary at best and dire at worst !
So, are we any better off with Adkins.........................jury is still out but by my reckoning we appear to have spent a lot of money in hiring and firing to be in exactly the same place as we were 12 months ago !
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If you think the style of football is the same then you don't watch us live.

Also, should Adkins have had the chance to sign as many players as Clough did, our squad would look somewhat better.
 

Hard for me to be objective as I didn't want Clough from day one, I admit it was a personal dislike dating back to when he was a very overated player who got most of his England caps based on his surname, and achieved his managerial positions for much the same reason.

In his time here he proved himself everything I thought he was, mainly along the lines of being an egotistical prick.

Never been so pleased to see the back of a manager.... And now we are, hopefully, embarking on clearing up the mess he left behind.

His eighteen months here set us back another two seasons.
 
Dkc said:
We were all set to keep him on after the 5-5 v Swindon
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That's not my recollection. But perhaps I am biased as that defensive display was the game that persuaded me there was no prospect of progress. Is our defence better now? Much better than that match, but not greatly as an average. But the standard of football is improving overall. I just despair that some think Adkins is a miracle worker. I, as much as anyone on this Forum and elsewhere, want the Blades to win this division this season, but we can not be unrealistic.
 
PeteBlade said:
If you think the style of football is the same then you don't watch us live.

Also, should Adkins have had the chance to sign as many players as Clough did, our squad would look somewhat better.
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Never stated that the style of football is the same - just the results and our current standing in the division !
Whilst we are scoring goals for fun this season we are also shipping them at an alarming rate - I do watch them 'live' as you put it and they have been less than convincing in the majority of matches - only Peterborough away did they play with purpose and drive !
Also how the hell do you know that Mr Adkins hasn't had the chance to sign as many players as Mr Clough - where did that one come from ?

I will judge Mr Adkins at the end of the season, as we all should but support him in his quest to take the Blades up !
 
Fiery Blade said:
Never stated that the style of football is the same - just the results and our current standing in the division !
Whilst we are scoring goals for fun this season we are also shipping them at an alarming rate - I do watch them 'live' as you put it and they have been less than convincing in the majority of matches - only Peterborough away did they play with purpose and drive !
Also how the hell do you know that Mr Adkins hasn't had the chance to sign as many players as Mr Clough - where did that one come from ?

I will judge Mr Adkins at the end of the season, as we all should but support him in his quest to take the Blades up !
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Because Clough signed shit loads and Adkins has signed 2.

It's a pretty safe assumption that if he was able to sign more players by now, he would have.
 
Cloughs tenure a failure ?

Or the start of a turnaround in the clubs fortunes ?

Clough made mistakes and was far from perfect. But I have a funny feeling / a hopeless optimism that history will show his tenure as the green shoots of recovery of a sleeping giant of a club that was, frankly, on its arse when he took over.

UTB
 
For me, the successes and failings of Clough largely mirror the successes and failings of Blackwell.

Both took over from managers who wanted to play the game the “right” way. i.e. passing football but were ultimately shite and left the club in danger of relegation. Both showed what the players they inherited were capable of by going on strong runs and finishing just outside the playoffs in their first season. Both had been considered “so-so” appointments that would be at least better than the car crashes they were replacing at the time and won the crowd over with strong runs in the first season. Both were praised for the fact that they were disciplinarians, got the team organised, hard to beat etc.

Then, both started to lose their better players (Beattie, Maguire) and had to try to use some nous in the transfer market to try to restore the quality of the squad. Both missed out on their preferred targets (Lita, COG). Both talked about quality over quantity and both did the exact opposite (France, Walton, Taylor, Harper, Ertl, Bogdanovic, Nosworthy, Simmonsen, Fortune, Davies, Kozluk the 2nd coming, Seip, Cresswell, Yeates, Kyel Reid, Treacy, Bunn, Ikeme, Connolly, Halls etc for those that can’t remember Blackwell’s- I’m sure Cloughs are still fresh in the mind). Both were cautious in their approach often playing 1 up front but ultimately finished up very short in the most important position to support that style- centre half (Blackwell was sacked with Nosworthy/Bartley/Ertl dipping in and out of that position after inheriting players like Kilgallon and Ehiogu). Both suffered playoff heartache in their 2nd season. Both fell out with players all too regularly seeing them move on (Cotteril/Sharp spring to mind under Blackwell and we all know about Clough’s).

There are so many parallels between these two managers. They bot showed early promise but both became nearly men who ended up being shown the door.

I hope there’s one more parallel to come. I hope that when Clough’s successor does leave us, it’s because his nation have offered him the chance to manage them as that means he will have been a roaring success for us.
 
1danewhitehouse said:
For me, the successes and failings of Clough largely mirror the successes and failings of Blackwell.

Both took over from managers who wanted to play the game the “right” way. i.e. passing football but were ultimately shite and left the club in danger of relegation. Both showed what the players they inherited were capable of by going on strong runs and finishing just outside the playoffs in their first season. Both had been considered “so-so” appointments that would be at least better than the car crashes they were replacing at the time and won the crowd over with strong runs in the first season. Both were praised for the fact that they were disciplinarians, got the team organised, hard to beat etc.

Then, both started to lose their better players (Beattie, Maguire) and had to try to use some nous in the transfer market to try to restore the quality of the squad. Both missed out on their preferred targets (Lita, COG). Both talked about quality over quantity and both did the exact opposite (France, Walton, Taylor, Harper, Ertl, Bogdanovic, Nosworthy, Simmonsen, Fortune, Davies, Kozluk the 2nd coming, Seip, Cresswell, Yeates, Kyel Reid, Treacy, Bunn, Ikeme, Connolly, Halls etc for those that can’t remember Blackwell’s- I’m sure Cloughs are still fresh in the mind). Both were cautious in their approach often playing 1 up front but ultimately finished up very short in the most important position to support that style- centre half (Blackwell was sacked with Nosworthy/Bartley/Ertl dipping in and out of that position after inheriting players like Kilgallon and Ehiogu). Both suffered playoff heartache in their 2nd season. Both fell out with players all too regularly seeing them move on (Cotteril/Sharp spring to mind under Blackwell and we all know about Clough’s).

There are so many parallels between these two managers. They bot showed early promise but both became nearly men who ended up being shown the door.

I hope there’s one more parallel to come. I hope that when Clough’s successor does leave us, it’s because his nation have offered him the chance to manage them as that means he will have been a roaring success for us.
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Sorry Mr Sidney, but I could not disagree with you more.

Blackwell inherited the best and most expensively assembled squad in UTDs history and systematically over a 3 ish year period dismantled it for vastly inferior players to the ones that departed, spunking millions on the likes of Horrendouson in the process. He is the main reason, but not the only reason, why we are a Div 3 club. The slide started under Blackwell and don't try and kid yourself otherwise.

Clough had a fraction of this overall budget and, man for man, improved the squad and left the club in a much better state than he found it.

Clough will gain future employment in management, Blackwell is unemployable as a kit man.

UTB
 
Couple of points.

KB didn't have to bring many players in when he first took over (I could be wrong but I don't remember him signing anyone first season) whereas had Clough been forced to stick with Weir's signings I doubt he'd have got us any higher than mid-table and certainly no cup run. And I'm being generous there.

Clough signed a couple of duffers and a couple of 'averages' but he has at least left us with Che, Freeman, Wallace, bought Reed through, Brayford, and, depending on your opinion of the individuals, Bash, McNulty, McGahey, Scougall (perhaps scraping the barrel a bit here).

KB signed a huge number of players and the only ones that were any good were Ward, Willo (when he finally got fit after a Wallace length absence) and Hendo (in that he suited the type of football he wanted to play; similarly Ched was OK but not at all suited to KB's style, like Brittany, Howard, Harper etc).
 
DronnieBlade said:
Sorry Mr Sidney, but I could not disagree with you more.

Blackwell inherited the best and most expensively assembled squad in UTDs history and systematically over a 3 ish year period dismantled it for vastly inferior players to the ones that departed, spunking millions on the likes of Horrendouson in the process. He is the main reason, but not the only reason, why we are a Div 3 club. The slide started under Blackwell and don't try and kid yourself otherwise.

Clough had a fraction of this overall budget and, man for man, improved the squad and left the club in a much better state than he found it.

Clough will gain future employment in management, Blackwell is unemployable as a kit man.

UTB
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Mr Sidney?
 
Its an interesting comment the Quality over quantity - another line we say but dont do. Much like the 'we cant rely on loans' line we trot out.
 

DronnieBlade said:
Sorry Mr Sidney, but I could not disagree with you more.

Blackwell inherited the best and most expensively assembled squad in UTDs history and systematically over a 3 ish year period dismantled it for vastly inferior players to the ones that departed, spunking millions on the likes of Horrendouson in the process. He is the main reason, but not the only reason, why we are a Div 3 club. The slide started under Blackwell and don't try and kid yourself otherwise.

Clough had a fraction of this overall budget and, man for man, improved the squad and left the club in a much better state than he found it.

Clough will gain future employment in management, Blackwell is unemployable as a kit man.

UTB
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In Blackie's defense the way he cut the wage bill without complaining convinced me that he was on % bonus of how much he saved.
The football and results were a side show.
The blame for that falls on the desk of McC.
 
GRUMPY BLADE said:
In Blackie's defense the way he cut the wage bill without complaining convinced me that he was on % bonus of how much he saved.
The football and results were a side show.
The blame for that falls on the desk of McC.
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In Blackies defence he STILL had an above average championship budget to work with, even after the significant cost cutting that was an inevitability after the Premier season fallout.

His player recruitment, given the budget he had, was horrific, employing some of the worst players we have seen in many many years, on daft wages.

Unemployable.

UTB
 
GRUMPY BLADE said:
In Blackie's defense the way he cut the wage bill without complaining convinced me that he was on % bonus of how much he saved.
The football and results were a side show.
The blame for that falls on the desk of McC.
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He still had a decent budget though. He just couldn't spot a player and was too arrogant to bring in a Peter Taylor type assistant.
He signed a huge number of players that were either unfit, shit, or just the wrong type for the kind of football he wanted to play. And he gave ridiculous contracts to some average championship players. I know Robinson was involved as well but he must have taken guidance from KB on how much they were worth.

Everton, as an example, sold players most seasons and found good replacements because Moyes knew what he was doing and had an extensive scouting network and numerous files on potential signings.
With the style of football he played, he could have signed some big athletic young players from the lower leagues for a fraction of what he spent on the likes of Ertl's wages and just made sure we paid good money for a couple of strikers, a keeper, a defender who could organise and had someone who could deliver a good set piece.
And we had some of those anyway.
Why pay good money for skilful players if you're going to play hoof? The point of hoof is to do it on the cheap.
 
DronnieBlade said:
In Blackies defence he STILL had an above average championship budget to work with, even after the significant cost cutting that was an inevitability after the Premier season fallout.

His player recruitment, given the budget he had, was horrific, employing some of the worst players we have seen in many many years, on daft wages.

Unemployable.

UTB
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I could have just said that and saved myself ten minutes.
 
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