Do you trust Wilder to rebuild the squad?

[AWetFlannel]

We don't have the luxury of wanting better if it exists. Starting on minus two, a fragile and mentally shot squad, huge rebuild with no real financial backing, no DoF working above you or proper structure, owner wants out but won't sell for cheap.

Any takers?

 

[Grizzly blade]

Fuck sake not this again!!

It’s really very simple.

This owner has no money, the club is skint.

That means he has no money to fund a new manager. No money to recruit a whole new squad that can play a different style of play.

Fans- expectations are high given the fact we’ve had 5 years of premier league money and heading into the championship, the last time we tried this same thing with Slav, failed to get his players in we had to sack him and go back to the previous plan to save a relegation fight!

Preparation for 24/25- ignore the shit and bluster, United knew full well they were goners when Wilder came in. We were so bad we could never get enough players in to impact enough in January as we had no budget to do that. We got some in…just to appease the fans and see off a likely revolt! But it was effectively lip service. They have been making plans for months to get ready for next season.
Now I accept that is likely to be shit prep as it’s SUFC, but it’s prep nonetheless!!

So- new manager means we rip up plans made.
Have to relook at the squad and identify new targets. If you do t want to do this you may as well stick with Wilder.
To be ready for next season start will be delayed. We will be needing to recruit a coach team again…how long does that usually take us?? And remember, the prem season finishes a few weeks after our future Championship rivals so we are behind already.
Remind me how this season started when we were so badly prepared!

So it boils down to this- it’s too late to change the manager. If we were to try and change the club too to bottom the time was when we sacked Hecky. Because I can assure everyone now, if we sack Wilder now we will be relegated next season.its going to be hard enough as it is to put right the mismanagement by the board over the last 3 years and Wilder will do well to have us competing mid table next season.

The board will need to hope we are somewhere close by January and then able to push for a play off spot because I suspect without prem money, even for one season, PA is screwed.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Wilder's pre prem recruitment was the best I've seen from any club/management team outside the Prem. If we got that again it'd beyond my wildest dreams. My doubts are more around funding and the newer recruitment model. Whoever has been signing our players this season has no idea what they're doing. All the players we've punted on abroad are shit and the average fan on the kop could've signed our domestic signings. Mitchell has left - he was was a key part of Wilder 1.0. I have zero faith beyond that I hold in Wilder/Knill. I doubt they have the power to recruit like they did last time if they wanted too. I think they hold less power, with nobody I trust taking any of that power from them

 

[ChrisDysonHT]

There are pro's and con's.

The pro's to keep Wilder
1: Vast experience, knows the Championship well and has a track record of being promoted from that division.
2: He'll know what the problem is, so is the best person to do something about it. Where as someone new has to start from scratch.
3: Good transfer record with cheapo, underwhelming players, which I suspect we'll be buying.Like Warnock crap record when buying expensive players
4: He's a genuine Blade so obviously cares for the club and genuinely wants to do well, it's more than just a job.
5: Good relationship with the owner and a good speaker/ communicator during interviews.
6: Wilder is a formulaic manager who likes his teams to be well coached and well drilled, so everyone knows their jobs.
So he needs a proper Summer pre-season to experiment and implement a style of play and to divise some tactics.

The cons to get rid
1: Mental damage, this season has been a real embarrasment. You would expect that if we start badly and lose our early matches
then some of the players and even the manager might have a kind of mental breakdown as they might be suffering from a kind of PTSD.
2: Confidence. Wilder's record of late, Middlesboro, Watford and here shows a lot of defeats, maybe he's lost it and no longer a good manager.
3: They'll be more pressure next season and Wilder is more passionate/ emotional, so can show cracks when he's under pressure.

On balance, think we have little choice but to give him a chance...if we're nowhere near the play-offs at Christmas then think about a replacement.

Also pretty sure he'll remain here because the Prince has a track record of patience and doesn't sack a manager until the position becomes untenable.

and hand on heart .... did anyone really think when CW took over that we would stay up? I didn't, it was about getting 12 points and not being the new Derby. Of course he has to rebuild ... we may be still conceding as may as Hecky BUT we are scoring and at least cheering for a few minutes ...

 

[Houston_Blade]

This is Abdullahs mess. He's had all our Prem money for the last 5 years it goes into United Worlds bank account in Geneva Switzerland & is never seen again. No-one in football will work for him as a Manager. So be grateful Chris is willing to give it his best shot. Have you forgotten he got us promoted 3 times. He's 100 times better than whining Abdullah & his forty thieves. Danny Hall spotted in the accounts our Chairman Giansiracusa got £5 M for advice. He gets a fabulous Chairman salary & never comes. The other 2 board members are Abdullahs daughter & Mohammed Alghadi. Not a very diverse board of 4 for a British club is it. 3 of them live in Saudi Arabia ! ! A sorry state of affairs.

On the pop again

 

[JJ Sefton]

Ben Beriton Daz has been a very good find, would like him to stay but suspect he'll be too expensive.

Our best players this season.

BBD on loan was signed by him.

So his ability to find good players is clear isn’t it?

Don’t rate BBD then ?

Diaz has been a rare bright spot this season. He is also not the only player Wilder ever signed for us. His signings the last time we were in the Prem were generally overpriced duffers and are a large part of why we’re in the mess we’re in financially.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Fuck sake not this again!!

It’s really very simple.

This owner has no money, the club is skint.

That means he has no money to fund a new manager. No money to recruit a whole new squad that can play a different style of play.

Fans- expectations are high given the fact we’ve had 5 years of premier league money and heading into the championship, the last time we tried this same thing with Slav, failed to get his players in we had to sack him and go back to the previous plan to save a relegation fight!

Preparation for 24/25- ignore the shit and bluster, United knew full well they were goners when Wilder came in. We were so bad we could never get enough players in to impact enough in January as we had no budget to do that. We got some in…just to appease the fans and see off a likely revolt! But it was effectively lip service. They have been making plans for months to get ready for next season.
Now I accept that is likely to be shit prep as it’s SUFC, but it’s prep nonetheless!!

So- new manager means we rip up plans made.
Have to relook at the squad and identify new targets. If you do t want to do this you may as well stick with Wilder.
To be ready for next season start will be delayed. We will be needing to recruit a coach team again…how long does that usually take us?? And remember, the prem season finishes a few weeks after our future Championship rivals so we are behind already.
Remind me how this season started when we were so badly prepared!

So it boils down to this- it’s too late to change the manager. If we were to try and change the club too to bottom the time was when we sacked Hecky. Because I can assure everyone now, if we sack Wilder now we will be relegated next season.its going to be hard enough as it is to put right the mismanagement by the board over the last 3 years and Wilder will do well to have us competing mid table next season.

The board will need to hope we are somewhere close by January and then able to push for a play off spot because I suspect without prem money, even for one season, PA is screwed.

I don’t really get the part of your argument about it being ‘too late’. Surely it’s better to start next season with the right man in place than just throwing good money after bad with Wilder?

There has to be a break in Wilder’s contract at the end of the season otherwise we really are ‘club retard’. Thank him for trying but let someone with a bit less of an entrenched view on football have a go.

He was good 2016-2019 and has been poor wherever he’s been since.

I wouldn’t want Wilder and his Bladey pal Jamie Hoyland spending my money, it just reeks of the backwards mentality of the club and some of its supporters.

Get someone fresh in, give them a season or 2 to embed a new style.

 

[Gaini Blade]

Weeerz 'don't know' option!?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Ben Beriton Daz has been a very good find, would like him to stay but suspect he'll be too expensive.

Hardly an unknown.

 

[Hamandcheese]

He'll only fail with it if he doesn't get what he needs from the owner and if Bettis and co fuck about, waste time and don't do their job

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Honestly I think whoever is given the task to rebuild has an nearly impossible job. So much needs doing with not much money and little wriggle room with few sellable assets and lots of players out of contract

It's fallen on Wilder and imo having someone with a deep knowledge of the squad already is preferable.

 

[Bladezz]

Diaz has been a rare bright spot this season. He is also not the only player Wilder ever signed for us. His signings the last time we were in the Prem were generally overpriced duffers and are a large part of why we’re in the mess we’re in financially.

You specially said recent signings…

His record at Boro was also excellent.

 

[United Aren't Back.]

Had a good chat about this with a few pals after today's shitshow.

I personally feel that it'd be best if Wilder departed after the season is over. I feel like we need a fresh face with fresh ideas (and a fresh formation...is anyone else bored of 3-5-2?) to give the club a jump start.

A complete overhaul is needed and I fear that Wilder may tarnish his legacy if he doesn't get it right over the summer. His record on transfers is very 50/50. Fleck, Rodwell, Duffy, Holmes, Norwood, Leonard, McGoldrick, Burke... I'm not 100% confident that he can bring the personnel in to rebuild us.

On the other hand, people pointed out to me that he will know exactly what we need. He knows the club, knows what we expect from a Sheffield United performance and knows how to get value for money (to quote a pal "I trust Wilder wi no money more than when he's got some"). I agree with that to some extent.

We were pretty split on this question so I'm curious to hear what others think.

The ' knows what we expect ' bit makes me shudder. For fucks sake can we ever move on from an expectation if just fucking hard working players? What about some ability FFS?
And if he wants hard work why are they playing like cunts every week..?.

 

[United Aren't Back.]

There are pro's and con's.

The pro's to keep Wilder
1: Vast experience, knows the Championship well and has a track record of being promoted from that division.
2: He'll know what the problem is, so is the best person to do something about it. Where as someone new has to start from scratch.
3: Good transfer record with cheapo, underwhelming players, which I suspect we'll be buying.Like Warnock crap record when buying expensive players
4: He's a genuine Blade so obviously cares for the club and genuinely wants to do well, it's more than just a job.
5: Good relationship with the owner and a good speaker/ communicator during interviews.
6: Wilder is a formulaic manager who likes his teams to be well coached and well drilled, so everyone knows their jobs.
So he needs a proper Summer pre-season to experiment and implement a style of play and to divise some tactics.

The cons to get rid
1: Mental damage, this season has been a real embarrasment. You would expect that if we start badly and lose our early matches
then some of the players and even the manager might have a kind of mental breakdown as they might be suffering from a kind of PTSD.
2: Confidence. Wilder's record of late, Middlesboro, Watford and here shows a lot of defeats, maybe he's lost it and no longer a good manager.
3: They'll be more pressure next season and Wilder is more passionate/ emotional, so can show cracks when he's under pressure.

On balance, think we have little choice but to give him a chance...if we're nowhere near the play-offs at Christmas then think about a replacement.

Also pretty sure he'll remain here because the Prince has a track record of patience and doesn't sack a manager until the position becomes untenable.

A genuine Blade .

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

Fuck sake not this again!!

It’s really very simple.

This owner has no money, the club is skint.

That means he has no money to fund a new manager. No money to recruit a whole new squad that can play a different style of play.

Fans- expectations are high given the fact we’ve had 5 years of premier league money and heading into the championship, the last time we tried this same thing with Slav, failed to get his players in we had to sack him and go back to the previous plan to save a relegation fight!

Preparation for 24/25- ignore the shit and bluster, United knew full well they were goners when Wilder came in. We were so bad we could never get enough players in to impact enough in January as we had no budget to do that. We got some in…just to appease the fans and see off a likely revolt! But it was effectively lip service. They have been making plans for months to get ready for next season.
Now I accept that is likely to be shit prep as it’s SUFC, but it’s prep nonetheless!!

So- new manager means we rip up plans made.
Have to relook at the squad and identify new targets. If you do t want to do this you may as well stick with Wilder.
To be ready for next season start will be delayed. We will be needing to recruit a coach team again…how long does that usually take us?? And remember, the prem season finishes a few weeks after our future Championship rivals so we are behind already.
Remind me how this season started when we were so badly prepared!

So it boils down to this- it’s too late to change the manager. If we were to try and change the club too to bottom the time was when we sacked Hecky. Because I can assure everyone now, if we sack Wilder now we will be relegated next season.its going to be hard enough as it is to put right the mismanagement by the board over the last 3 years and Wilder will do well to have us competing mid table next season.

The board will need to hope we are somewhere close by January and then able to push for a play off spot because I suspect without prem money, even for one season, PA is screwed.

I agree with most of what you said, but our season finished a week before the Championship did

 

[Blades1971]

Unfortunately the performances under Wilder are really no better than Heckys. I appreciate the quality of players he inherited. I think a big clear out is needed from the top to the bottom. We have some good youngsters who need to be given a chance, but developed sensibly. Then a splattering of experience and a few quality ones. It's really not rocket science

 

[Bookers Mullet]

I wouldn't trust Wilder to rebuild a two piece Lego model.

Since our first premier league season under wilder which of his signings would you say have been good?

BBD, possibly Berge and Bogle. His coaching ability is showing no evidence that he's back to his best , and there is little evidence to say his ability to spot a good player has either.

I think we'll sign a load of older championship steady Eddies and end up lower mid table.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Hmmm... There's no half-way answer. So I've selected 'no', because I can't give a heartfelt 'yes'. But it's a bit more nuanced than that. Firstly...

to quote a pal "I trust Wilder wi no money more than when he's got some").

...this. Definitely this. But even then, there were plenty of duds when working on more of a shoestring. Granted, no manager has a unanimously brilliant track record but we still had the names you hinted at. So there's that inkling of doubt for me. Secondly, it's been quite some time now since his last period of encouraging recruitment - Didz, Egan, etc. And before that Baldock, Stevens etc. Can he do it again?

No, but I have even less faith in the infrastructure at the club to rebuild on the scale required.

Secondly, and more importantly, this. I don't think we have the personnel, the organisation, the expertise, or professionalism to be organised or proactive enough. I don't expect us to be ahead of the game, I don't expect us to have deals lined up, I don't trust us to get enough bodies or quality through the door. I just don't think we're well run enough for that. I also think we lack the funds to fund the rebuild we need and it's pretty much public how hard up we are, so other clubs will use this against us.

 

[Bladezz]

The ' knows what we expect ' bit makes me shudder. For fucks sake can we ever move on from an expectation if just fucking hard working players? What about some ability FFS?
And if he wants hard work why are they playing like cunts every week..?.

He got us promoted twice. In his 6 years with us he had one poor season.

The agenda by some is crazy that Wilder some how wasn’t amazing. We got 2 promotions and a 9th place finish.

But everyone remembers the ending and 3 bad signings. It’s crazy.

 

[Grizzly blade]

I don’t really get the part of your argument about it being ‘too late’. Surely it’s better to start next season with the right man in place than just throwing good money after bad with Wilder?

There has to be a break in Wilder’s contract at the end of the season otherwise we really are ‘club retard’. Thank him for trying but let someone with a bit less of an entrenched view on football have a go.

He was good 2016-2019 and has been poor wherever he’s been since.

I wouldn’t want Wilder and his Bladey pal Jamie Hoyland spending my money, it just reeks of the backwards mentality of the club and some of its supporters.

Get someone fresh in, give them a season or 2 to embed a new style.

What’s not to get? How clear do you want it??
Did we give Slav that time? What would have happened if we had?? He needed players, lots of new ones to replace those unable to play his way.
He also had IN, Berge and MGW!! All players head and shoulders better than any other contracted player we have in their positions! Yet the club got him in and pretty much gave him nowt. You think a new manager now would get any budget to remould it?? You’re in cuckoo land.

Another point- key decisions have already been made, contracts being one, but the other is as you point out- Hoyland.
You think he’s been sat on his hands in the month he arrived?
You don’t believe the manager saying they are talking to players and agents etc? Players hoped to play a certain way that Wilder has deemed necessary.
And you want that to completely stop in a couple of weeks while competitors in the champ crack on planning and getting a march on players who may be OOC while we take weeks to recruit another new manager!!

By then our players have gone and everyone is on a beach for a month.
One of the main reasons this club is in the shit is delays.
The time it takes to recruit players kills us, and that’s once we’ve identified targets!

Replace Wilder at the end of the season and we will be starting the season woefully underprepared. And after the season we’ve had, morale of those left is already gone.

What we need now is some early player arrivals to set some benchmarks, so that any prospective loans will look at us as contenders rather than the laughingstock we are presently.

Final points- you think this owner has the ability to pick a new manager? Bettis?? The joke of a board?? They haven’t hired one manager yet who’s worked, Hecky was brought here by Wilder.
You think he has money to swoop in and compensate a club for one employed?? Or is it likely we get an unemployed again??
Have you or any of the other Wilder out mob actually identified a manager who we realistically get?
Because it’s all just pie in the sky, calling for a change but not having any ideas or solutions to the problems listed.

So, I stand by my point. the time for complete change in direction was probs October…not December btw.After the first major drubbing. He’d sold the players Hecky wanted and failed to bring n others he’d wanted. UW and his fuckwits were rampant in hiring shite and look where it got us, yet some folk are happy it seems for their incompetence to be replicated further!!!

 

[Grizzly blade]

I agree with most of what you said, but our season finished a week before the Championship did

I’d counter that it ended in reality the week before the season started!!

 

[Bladezz]

I don’t really get the part of your argument about it being ‘too late’. Surely it’s better to start next season with the right man in place than just throwing good money after bad with Wilder?

There has to be a break in Wilder’s contract at the end of the season otherwise we really are ‘club retard’. Thank him for trying but let someone with a bit less of an entrenched view on football have a go.

He was good 2016-2019 and has been poor wherever he’s been since.

I wouldn’t want Wilder and his Bladey pal Jamie Hoyland spending my money, it just reeks of the backwards mentality of the club and some of its supporters.

Get someone fresh in, give them a season or 2 to embed a new style.

Wilder has had 6 bad months in the managerial hot seat with us in his previous tenure. The rest was only massive success.

our football was loved by even the greats like Pep. When did everyone just forget?

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Wilder has had 6 bad months in the managerial hot seat with us in his previous tenure. The rest was only massive success.

our football was loved by even the greats like Pep. When did everyone just forget?

It's so bizarre. I can understand not being sure going forward but the attempt to rewrite history is so odd.

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

I’d counter that it ended in reality the week before the season started!!

We competed a bit. Spurs away and Man City at home we did ok.

The 0-8 to Newcastle was when the green curtain came down, and it's been a shitshow ever since.

 

[Grizzly blade]

We competed a bit. Spurs away and Man City at home we did ok.

The 0-8 to Newcastle was when the green curtain came down, and it's been a shitshow ever since.

Mate, I get your point but to me having one attack a game isn’t competing.
Spurs missed a hatful and city spent most the game in reverse.

 

[The Crab]

Had a good chat about this with a few pals after today's shitshow.

I personally feel that it'd be best if Wilder departed after the season is over. I feel like we need a fresh face with fresh ideas (and a fresh formation...is anyone else bored of 3-5-2?) to give the club a jump start.

A complete overhaul is needed and I fear that Wilder may tarnish his legacy if he doesn't get it right over the summer. His record on transfers is very 50/50. Fleck, Rodwell, Duffy, Holmes, Norwood, Leonard, McGoldrick, Burke... I'm not 100% confident that he can bring the personnel in to rebuild us.

On the other hand, people pointed out to me that he will know exactly what we need. He knows the club, knows what we expect from a Sheffield United performance and knows how to get value for money (to quote a pal "I trust Wilder wi no money more than when he's got some"). I agree with that to some extent.

We were pretty split on this question so I'm curious to hear what others think.

I think he needs to go, but under the current ownership (a far bigger issue for me than Wilder) you’re just moving chairs on the titanic.

So reluctantly, he needs to be around for the rebuild.

 

[gordoncharles]

That doesn’t make sense. Firstly your blaming the defenders & squad then wilder? You can only do what your team is capable of so which one is it?

Doesn't make sense? I just said exactly where the blame lies, these players are not so bad they should concede over 100 goals with more still to come.

Let's take an example of a manager who has been failing miserably in recent years and was sacked by a relegation threatened Spanish team himself a couple of months ago. Does anyone seriously believe that Rafa Benitez would have allowed us to be humiliated like this week after week? We'd have been bored to tears admittedly, but under the circumstances what would have been better - boredom or ritual disembowelling?

There are dozens of coaches in Europe who would have made at least a credible defensive unit out of the players we have and at least some shreds of pride might have been salvaged from the wreckage.

 

[The Crab]

Ben Beriton Daz has been a very good find, would like him to stay but suspect he'll be too expensive.

I’d love him to stay but I just don’t see a scenario where that will happen. This is purely because he’s been decent for us and might give him the spark to kick on either with his current club or a loan elsewhere

 

[Bladezz]

We competed a bit. Spurs away and Man City at home we did ok.

The 0-8 to Newcastle was when the green curtain came down, and it's been a shitshow ever since.

It ended when the 8th hit the net and we didn’t sack the manager there and then.

Regardless of Wilder 8-0 at home with a newly promoted team who can live of some confidence of the previous season is a sackable defence. It wasn’t City where you can say okay. But it should have been 12.

He didn’t get sacked so everyone downed tools.

 

[finlaytheblade]

I think a few need to be careful what they wish for. Probably the same people calling for the sacking of Warnock and Hecky after our last relegations

All been said before ! He knows the club , what we have and not got so he is in the best position to turn it round.Just a year on his contract so won't brake the bank to sack if necessary.
He is a lifelong blade and wants the best for the club so if it dunt work I feel sure he will go in favour of another hand picked coach
( hopefully that won't happen) who Wilder will help to find ,feel sure he will have( he and the prince) some young coach in mind.