chris basham

[Woodwardfan]

I take an interest in what Clough says - I believe the original intention of NC was to play Wallace and Basham in centre midfield together - Doyle would have missed out. Wallace not being fit has meant complete change of plan. Also Higdon was to be the main man up front - again, lack of early fitness couples with Chezzer sending off plus injury in training has put paid to what he wanted to do. Doyle has been very good (since Fulham at home) - quite a revelation really which has probably added to the dilemma. Basham was to hold, with Wallace going forward. Think we have all see how versatile Basham is and to sit in front of the back four takes a footballer with a brain - ie: Basham. As for McCarthy - this should have been Butler, but sadly this didn't work, hence Mccarthy. Clough wants stability at CH and you won't get that with 2 new boys in Basham AND Mcceverly - you NEED experience. Collins isn't the answer and Harry has gone - yet another dilemma for NC. Basham and mcceverly are ok against teams like Crewe - but Forte showed how easy it was against inexperience - ie: his goal on Saturday.

We need at least 1 experienced CH, and up until January it will be McCarthy in league games plus one other - probably mcceverly as he is left footed. Doyle and Basham may well now play together and possibly against Plymouth, Reid will come in and one has a rest.

When McCarthy goes back, we may try and sign permanently, trouble is - wages and his family down South. We will have to go into the market for an experienced CH - Clough will not trust Basham and mcceverly for the remained of the season. If he trusted them, they would have played together on Saturday.

So, where everyone is crying out for a striker (and rightly so), we will also need an experienced CH. We cannot "hope" Basham and Mcceverly are good enough - that would be mad.

As for Basham - he is our master utility player - every teams need one.

Who should we get? - go and offer Hull a kings ransom to loan Harry back!

UTB

I too listen to what Clough says but I sometimes disagree with him. Have United conceded a goal with Basham in the Back 4, maybe one?! How many games have we won with Basham in midfield? How many games has Basham played in midfield in his career. He has scored less than a handful of goals ever.

We have options in central defence at this level: Basham, McEveley, Collins (plenty good enough), McGahey ( the boy wonder not long ago), Kennedy ( who I rate highly) and Clough played Alcock there for the first two games. Did we really need McCarthy over a striker? We also still have Butler on our books. Listening carefully to Clough about Butler tells us nothing.

Do you really prefer the Wallace/ Basham partnership over the Wallace/ Doyle duo? Your opinion not Clough's?

You see a class act. I see a fish out of water in midfield, the more uncomfortable the further he moves upfield. He is honest but his technique is sorely lacking in tight situations and in his heading at goal.

I so hope you are right and I am wrong because our manager is obstinate and seems determined for Basham to succeed in midfield. Shame for Doyle, he was the man leading and supporting all areas of the team yesterday and also as I said "how much dirty work is there to do at this level", so its just not right to play both of them together, certainly in home games.

 

[sitwell]

Jagielka always fancied himself in midfield but he was far better at centre half once he got his head round it.

 

[wizadry]

Harry won player of the season twice didn't he? I think as a Centre Half he could be key in promotion and easily win poty.

What did you notice about the two seasons Harry Maguire won POTY award? The answer is we didn't go up.

It does say a lot when a defender is getting noticed more than an attacking player.

 

[Bladepicker]

What did you notice about the two seasons Harry Maguire won POTY award? The answer is we didn't go up.

It does say a lot when a defender is getting noticed more than an attacking player.

I get that, but we could easily have gone up two seasons as go and last year Harry was only good from November onwards when we had promotion form.

I guess I agree that it shows we haven't had a stand out forward, but it doesn't necessarily mean no promotion.

 

[Grecian2000]

Been great at CB, simply not good enough in CM.

He was our best midfielder on Saturday and we were very poor in there (too slow on the ball, not enough movement, chasing shadows). He hasn't got a goal scores instinct or mentality and is constantly "nearly there" when in the opposition box.
I expect the attacking midfielders to find the net regularly, he won't, so let's play him where he plays best and save some much needed funds and send McCarthy back).

 

[wizadry]

You didn't hear NC on RS then - think the word was..........magnificent.

UTB

Did Cloughy seriously say that? So we have McNulty who comes on,gets a goal and is criticised all the time.Basham has a steady game in a lack lustre 1-1 draw against Oldham at home and he says he was magnificent. Very strange!

Just for the record,i like Basham,but to say that about him on Saturday is very baffling.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Did Cloughy seriously say that? So we have McNulty who comes on,gets a goal and is criticised all the time.Basham has a steady game in a lack lustre 1-1 draw against Oldham at home and he says he was magnificent. Very strange!

Just for the record,i like Basham,but to say that about him on Saturday is very baffling.

Clough is very sensitive about Basham. He is willing him to do better.

For what its worth, I reckon he promised him a midfield role to get him to drop a level and come here. It has to work.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Did Cloughy seriously say that? So we have McNulty who comes on,gets a goal and is criticised all the time.Basham has a steady game in a lack lustre 1-1 draw against Oldham at home and he says he was magnificent. Very strange!

Just for the record,i like Basham,but to say that about him on Saturday is very baffling.

Got the word wrong - Clough said he was our best player and was "Excellent" in the post match interview - you should listen to them.

A pal who sits on the kop is equally anti-Basham even had to admit that Basham was his MOM.

Equally strange that a few can't or won't see Basham's qualities - might end up player of the year at this rate. Clough rates him highly and has praised BAsham on numerous occasions - no doubt Cloughie is wrong too.

UTB

 

[wizadry]

Got the word wrong - Clough said he was our best player and was "Excellent" in the post match interview - you should listen to them.

A pal who sits on the kop is equally anti-Basham even had to admit that Basham was his MOM.

Equally strange that a few can't or won't see Basham's qualities - might end up player of the year at this rate. Clough rates him highly and has praised BAsham on numerous occasions - no doubt Cloughie is wrong too.

UTB

Are you changing the words to make your own posts look better? you clearly said that Cloughy said he was magnificent in you previous post.

Equally anti Basham,do you read anything? Go back through all the Basham threads and you will see from the start i'm far from anti Basham,iv'e been crying out for him to play Centre back since the start of the season,so get the facts right before spouting off.

As for Cloughy,yes he has praised him quite a bit but some of it has been wrong praise imo,he hasn't always played well and players like McNulty get slagged off by him everytime,no wonder he went nightclubbing

As for listening to the post match interviews,i very rarely do as i don't like what i hear sometimes and like to judge the game on my own account as i think Cloughy has spoke quite a bit of shit after a lot of the games.It's just journalism and they ask him questions that nine times out of ten you or i could answer,the other one out of ten being the shit he spouts about specific players he likes.He certainly has his favourites in which i personally don't agree with,whereas i comment as i see it,that's the difference.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Are you changing the words to make your own posts look better? you clearly said that Cloughy said he was magnificent in you previous post.

Equally anti Basham,do you read anything? Go back through all the Basham threads and you will see from the start i'm far from anti Basham,iv'e been crying out for him to play Centre back since the start of the season,so get the facts right before spouting off.

As for Cloughy,yes he has praised him quite a bit but some of it has been wrong praise imo,he hasn't always played well and players like McNulty get slagged off by him everytime,no wonder he went nightclubbing

As for listening to the post match interviews,i very rarely do as i don't like what i hear sometimes and like to judge the game on my own account as i think Cloughy has spoke quite a bit of shit after a lot of the games.It's just journalism and they ask him questions that nine times out of ten you or i could answer,the other one out of ten being the shit he spouts about specific players he likes.He certainly has his favourites in which i personally don't agree with,whereas i comment as i see it,that's the difference.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I commend Fulwood for having the bottle to back a player and hold some belief in someone who is not yet living up to pre-season expectations. It is so easy to knock players, manager,board, fans etc. and is much harder to be positive.

I hope he is right because the lad will be given a good go in midfield, come what may.

I prefer Doyle but if Basham comes through he is the younger man and that is better for future years. His settling in period may therefore be regarded as an investment in the future.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Foxy, would it be possible to give us Basham's average ratings this season. A split between his midfield ratings and defensive ratings would tell a story I'm sure.

BTW the " top 5 rated averages" is very interesting feature and 3 of the players are not assured of a starting spot; thanks for the information. Doyle is 5th noticeably.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Foxy, would it be possible to give us Basham's average ratings this season. A split between his midfield ratings and defensive ratings would tell a story I'm sure.

BTW the " top 5 rated averages" is very interesting feature and 3 of the players are not assured of a starting spot; thanks for the information. Doyle is 5th noticeably.

Click on Basham in any of the matches and you'll see all his scores and his average:

http://s24su.com/forum/index.php?prs/player/basham.56/&season_id=16

There are usually a couple of big surprises in our ratings section. Flynn has 7 MoM now.

 

[wizadry]

There are usually a couple of big surprises in our ratings section. Flynn has 7 MoM now.

I find this astounding!!!

 

[Grecian2000]

Equally strange that a few can't or won't see Basham's qualities - might end up player of the year at this rate. Clough rates him highly and has praised BAsham on numerous occasions - no doubt Cloughie is wrong too.

You see I find this bizarre.

Plenty have praised him to the hilt since his shift into the back four. That's because he's been playing well there. Plenty have slagged him off whilst playing in midfield, that's because he's been playing poorly there.
Clough is absolutely wrong if he thinks Basham is a better midfielder than defender, exactly as he was wrong playing Alcock at CB in the first two games of the season. I find it strange that people can't understand he can make mistakes like every other person in every other walk of life.

I'll give you Phil Jagielka, Jamie Hoyland, Colin Hill and Nicky Marker as players who were played out of position, by various managers, who were obviously better at CB than where they kept getting played.

 

[wizadry]

You see I find this bizarre.

Plenty have praised him to the hilt since his shift into the back four. That's because he's been playing well there. Plenty have slagged him off whilst playing in midfield, that's because he's been playing poorly there.
Clough is absolutely wrong if he thinks Basham is a better midfielder than defender, exactly as he was wrong playing Alcock at CB in the first two games of the season. I find it strange that people can't understand he can make mistakes like every other person in every other walk of life.

I'll give you Phil Jagielka, Jamie Hoyland, Colin Hill and Nicky Marker as players who were played out of position, by various managers, who were obviously better at CB than where they kept getting played.

You're not allowed to discuss it and Cloughy is never wrong

 

[Canterbury Blade]

At Swindon he was in a land of his own, quite literally he was unaware of what was happening and i felt for someone who is still learning his trade. At Donny he was immense with a attitude to match. Not quite sure why but a run of games, despite not playing well initially seems to have worked. If that could be applied across the board perhaps McNulty would have listened and not gone out in Scotland.....

 

[Woodwardfan]

Click on Basham in any of the matches and you'll see all his scores and his average:

http://s24su.com/forum/index.php?prs/player/basham.56/&season_id=16

There are usually a couple of big surprises in our ratings section. Flynn has 7 MoM now.

Actually I was being lazy, but here goes:

Basham in defence: 5 games average 7.22, a very good average.

in midfield: 12 games average 5.51, a poor average.

overall: 17 games average 6.41

 

[Bergen Blade]

You see I find this bizarre.

Plenty have praised him to the hilt since his shift into the back four. That's because he's been playing well there. Plenty have slagged him off whilst playing in midfield, that's because he's been playing poorly there.
Clough is absolutely wrong if he thinks Basham is a better midfielder than defender, exactly as he was wrong playing Alcock at CB in the first two games of the season. I find it strange that people can't understand he can make mistakes like every other person in every other walk of life.

I'll give you Phil Jagielka, Jamie Hoyland, Colin Hill and Nicky Marker as players who were played out of position, by various managers, who were obviously better at CB than where they kept getting played.

Clough has said he thinks centre half is Basham's best position, but he thinks he's one of very few with the potential to be a presence in the box and get goals from midfield.

Stephen McGinn is another one Clough has got wrong. Offers about the same as Doyle in a holding role; very little in more advanced roles.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Actually I was being lazy, but here goes:

Basham in defence: 5 games average 7.22, a very good average.

in midfield: 12 games average 5.51, a poor average.

overall: 17 games average 6.41

Just out of interest - The 5 games he played in defence - Hartlepool away, 2 games against Crewe - who else?
thanks

UTB

 

[Foxy]

Just out of interest - The 5 games he played in defence - Hartlepool away, 2 games against Crewe - who else?
thanks

UTB

Walsall and Yeovil.

He did also move backwards once we went down to ten men against Donny.

 

[wizadry]

Just out of interest - The 5 games he played in defence - Hartlepool away, 2 games against Crewe - who else?
thanks

UTB

Aparrently,opposition doesn't make a difference to whether you concede goals or not!

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Aparrently,opposition doesn't make a difference to whether you concede goals or not!

If you would like to remove the sarcasm and explain what you actually mean I'll try and give you a sensible answer.

UTB

 

[wizadry]

If you would like to remove the sarcasm and explain what you actually mean I'll try and give you a sensible answer.

UTB

I'm referring to people who think that Paddy McCarthy coming to us,is the reason we're better defensively,when the opposition we've played hasn't been of the highest calibre to say the least.Take for instance the Oldham game,as soon as we get decent opposition McCarthy was made to look bang average and that's giving him the benefit of the doubt.

You was making the point with your post that Basham hasn't played against any decent opposition while being in defence,so i was trying to point out it can't work both ways.You can't defend McCarthy for his performances and then go on to state Basham hasn't played any decent opposition.And if you weren't pointing that out in your post i stand corrected and please explain.Cheers!

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Mccarthy first: Not really sure if he is right for us. Agreed he has been nothing better than average. Lets be right Mccarthy was mainly a Champ player for Palace and am sure NW will not really want to play Mccarthy now. Jedinac seems quite decent even at Prem level. NC seems to want experience at CH and Mccarthy seemed to fit the bill ,although I am disappointed he only comes up Thurs/Fri to us - a CH partnership develops over time. Morgs and KIllgallon seemed to work very well but they trained together all week - Mccarthy does not. For me Mccarthy is not the answer although it seems as though he is first choice at present.

Basham: yes, my point who Basham has played against is only "minor" opposition. Perhaps he could become a decent centre half? Basham at CH is exactly the same with Mcceverly and have had this very discussion at work with our Accountant. I said before Oldham that Mcceverly hadn't had anyone decent against him and he struggled against Oldhams big lad up front and Forte. Mcceverly was turned so easily by Forte for their goal and didn't really distinguish himself the whole game. Basham, might be the same until he is tried, but I just doubt NC will put Basham in on a regular basis. NC appears to want "some" height in midfield - other than Basham all our midfield could audition for Ken Dodds diddymen show. We are in general a very small team.

I do not actually disagree about Basham at CH, he looks good and one of NC's primary requisites is that the CH can bring the ball out (Harry was a master at it) Basham can do this easily, and against the poor opposition we have played with him at CH, he looked very good, but it could be an experiment that could fail. Kids like Afobe at MK Dons would have either of them for lunch.

If Mccarthy isn't the answer, then we will have to go into the sale/load market come January. Mccarthy won't come past January (Wages and mainly family) so we probably have as bigger problem here as we do upfront.

I appreciate you like "entertainment", but I would be more interested in having a quality defender at CH than a new forward, and just impress on Higdon (don't get sent off you Scouse git) and wrap him in cotton wool in training. As for Mcnulty, if he is any way culpable for the restaurant issue then he should be on a last warning.

So - CH in January please - and not Mccarthy.

Hope this explains.

UTB

 

[Lane Ender]

Any team with a bit of pace and keep it on the floor Mccarthy is in trouble Bashams strenghts are more adequate to deal with this.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Any team with a bit of pace and keep it on the floor Mccarthy is in trouble Bashams strenghts are more adequate to deal with this.

yes you have a point - but then if Basham was our CH, opposition teams would know that and not play the ball the Basham's strengths.

Any oppositions looks to expose the individual oppositions weaknesses and Basham does not appear to be very strong - looks bodily lightweight, where as Mcceverly looks like a brick shithouse upper body - surprised he got turned so easily by Forte, as he shouldn't have been.

UTB

 

[Lane Ender]

Bashams a good reader of situations and he can head the ball well in front on challenges .
I noticed when he plays centre back he continually talking to the back line especially Alcock who definately needs it.