Are we really that bad?

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GreasyChipBeattie

GreasyChipBeattie

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Without conceding a last minute goal at Forest, we'd only be 5 points behind them.
For all the piss-taking, they're not exactly out of sight are they?
Likewise, without the 10-goal swing with the Burnley result, they'd be pretty much same as us.
Difference is, we can, and seemingly are getting better than we were....
 

GreasyChipBeattie said:
Without conceding a last minute goal at Forest, we'd only be 5 points behind them.
For all the piss-taking, they're not exactly out of sight are they?
Likewise, without the 10-goal swing with the Burnley result, they'd be pretty much same as us.
Difference is, we can, and seemingly are getting better than we were....
Click to expand...
With the amount of points we’ve dropped late on in various games we’d be right in there, all ifs and buts Ofcourse but off the top of my head;
1-forest 1pts
2-spurs 1/3pts
3-villa 2pts

Had we held on we’d be on 19. Obviously the saying including grandmas, wheels and bike comes to mind
 
If I was the first born to Queen Elizabeth II - I would now be the KIng of England!
I know what you mean though its frustrating that we have thrown so many points away at the death Forest A 1 pt, Spurs lost 3 points, Villa lost 2 pts, City Home lost 1 pt, Palace A lost 1 pt and Luton H lost 3 points - thats another 11 points we could have had !and now could have been at 15th and clear of the relegation !
 
We play some really nice stuff in flashes, but don't consistently do the basics right and still seem to make a lot of mistakes.

Loads better today though and we were unusually clinically
 
We’re not a bad team, we’re just not good enough to stay up in the premier league. Which is to be expected considering our budget compared to the other 17 teams.

Also absolutely nuts how Burnley aren’t being talked about in the same way as we are, considering there just as bad and spent even more money.
 
Roygbiv said:
We're a bad Premier League team. You can't argue that really. Twice a similar set of players have struggled to get to 20 points.

It doesn't mean we are a bad football team though. Southampton got 25 points last season but seem unstoppable in The Championship.
Click to expand...

Which shows how big the gap from top CH to bottom PL is.
 
We could and probably should be at least 6 points better off but over the course of the season so far we’ve been miles off it in far too many games. Theres been games where we just havent given ourselves a chance either by setting up so unbelievably cautiously or the players have contrived to commit a cataclysmic brain fart.

Games like today show we can compete and match teams at this level, albeit theres a very good chance it will be a Championship fixture next season, it’s a lack of cohesion and ability to do the basics that has cost us more than anything. Defensively we’ve been nothing short of a joke in some games which hasnt really happened for us before in the Prem.

We’ve always been a team thats greater than the sum of it’s parts. In terms of individual quality, this squad isnt drastically worse than anything else we’ve put out at this level in the past but the lack of organisation and defensive discipline has been exploited to the full.
 
Luton are basically a championship level side and that is what we are so in premier league terms we are bad, championship not really
 
GreasyChipBeattie said:
Without conceding a last minute goal at Forest, we'd only be 5 points behind them.
For all the piss-taking, they're not exactly out of sight are they?
Likewise, without the 10-goal swing with the Burnley result, they'd be pretty much same as us.
Difference is, we can, and seemingly are getting better than we were....
Click to expand...

Similarly for all Luton's plaudits and the hammer we get, if they hadn't absolutely fluked that win at the Lane in circumstances that I'm pretty sure will never have happened before, there'd be 1 point between us.

We are crap, but there are a handful of teams who aren't much better, and we do genuinely seem to have had some rotten luck.
 
Roygbiv said:
We're a bad Premier League team. You can't argue that really. Twice a similar set of players have struggled to get to 20 points.

It doesn't mean we are a bad football team though. Southampton got 25 points last season but seem unstoppable in The Championship.
Click to expand...
We're a poorly prepared and physically conditioned PL side.

I still go back to the utter lack of physical conditioning and preparation in the Summer.

As glib as it sounds, with a 'proper pre-season' (a la our first Summer in 2019) then this rag tag bunch of miscreants is hustling their way out of relegation.

In 2024 i don't think we can underestimate the importance of being at the physical peak. Under Hecky/Tom Little we entered this season like we'd just walked off an 18-30 Holiday and have never caught up ..
 
ThatJa said:
Which shows how big the gap from top CH to bottom PL is.
Click to expand...
I’ve mentioned this before, but in the history of the premier league the 3 relegated sides have NEVER all come back up next season: top 3 in championship now are Leicester, Southampton, Leeds.

The promoted 3 have only ever ALL gone straight back down 2 or 3 times in over 20 years. Bottom 4 right now: SUFC, Burnley, Everton (after 10 point deduction), Luton.
It’s unprecedented for 3 clubs to bounce straight back up, let alone all 6 to swap places to exactly where they were a year ago, which looks extremely likely still.

The gap between premier league and championship has never looked wider.
 

Bad is relative, isn't it?

We'll finish the season, at worst, as the 20th best team in England by ranking.

And I do think we're a few points light and a few goals against a true reflection of our season so far.
 
Since Wilder has come back we have been much much better.

Since Wilder we have picked up 0.8 points per game which puts us on par with Everton at the moment if was over the season.

We have been unlucky in some tight games like throwing points away at Luton at home etc.
 
CharnockBlade said:
With the amount of points we’ve dropped late on in various games we’d be right in there, all ifs and buts Ofcourse but off the top of my head;
1-forest 1pts
2-spurs 1/3pts
3-villa 2pts

Had we held on we’d be on 19. Obviously the saying including grandmas, wheels and bike comes to mind
Click to expand...
We've also gained 2 points against Wolves and 1 against West ham with very late goals.
 
Roygbiv said:
We're a bad Premier League team. You can't argue that really. Twice a similar set of players have struggled to get to 20 points.

It doesn't mean we are a bad football team though. Southampton got 25 points last season but seem unstoppable in The Championship.
Click to expand...
This.

We deserved nothing against Villa, Spurs and City.

We are kidding ourselves to think otherwise.

We'll be a decent Championship team

In addition, against Forest, they brought on Wood ( who scored the winner). We brought on Hackford, who was a 19 year old just recovering from serious injury.
The owners got what they deserved there
 
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we should have more points than we do. i thought going into villa we shouldve been on 17pts. but we have been our own worst enemy at times, we should held on v west ham, it was criminal what we did from 2-1 up on boxing day. any side in premier league when they that much on top should be getting the 3pts v west ham
 
We have been million times better since Wilder.

Nows the time to look forwards and finish the season off strong and do everything we can to get Wilder the players he wants like BBD etc to fire us back up.
 
Through the performances and results haven't hugely improved under Wilder, one thing that has is a significant reduction in injuries and long term injuries, and the players aren't done and finished physically after 60 minutes like they were under Hecky.

I'll be intrigued to see which job Hecky gets next and how many long term injuries his squad gets.
 
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