10 year plan

[Houso]

If there was a plan which you seem to be suggesting then why loan him and then why being him back mid season? Doesn't seem to smack 'plan' to me. Seems more like, shit the young lad the last manager loaned out is Probably as good as the shite we wasted money on so why not give him a go..

Hardly a plan...

Check my original post. Did I say there was a plan earlier in the season or that there is one now?

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

There is a plan with him in mind.

Quite hopeful if I'm honest about next season given the potential of some players coming through.

Erm, you kind of did....

 

[Champagneblade]

The problem we have is that put simply, whatever plan we have cannot satisfy the main component required to sustain PL football and that is MONEY.

We have a youth system which is providing players to the first team squad.

We have a manager with prior success who cares deeply about the club.

We have a strong fan base.

The other things that we need all cost such as Academy upgrades, Premier League players, Extensive Scouting.

Behind this we have an owner who didn’t want to be sole owner but was effectively pushed into an all or nothing scenario by his previous partner. He seems unable to sell whether through unrealistic pricing or lack of interest, I doubt any are really party to the details.

So at best, we yo-yo. Unfortunately this involves getting pummelled at this level as even the better players struggle.

The chasm between top and second tier illustrates how this cycle is difficult to break.

Trusty did well for Brum last year; he looks absolutely hopeless this year.

Hamer hit double figures in goals and assists last year; he is a peripheral figure much of the time this year.

Baldock and Bogle will again comfortably be two of the better right sided options next year if they stay. But we know how outmatched Bogle is and George has just gone over his peak in my view too.

I could go on. But the truth is, as bad as we seem this year, the same players would still see you finish top three or four next year in the Championship.

So your hope is that you get some young players who have a high ceiling and take you with them. Perhaps Arblaster is next season’s Ndiaye?

That’s your hope but then you potentially end up the same in 12 months; promoted, no money to spend and expected to come down again. But if you accept that being a yo-yo team is the best you can expect for a while then this is the medicine you have to take.

 

[Houston_Blade]

The problem we have is that put simply, whatever plan we have cannot satisfy the main component required to sustain PL football and that is MONEY.

We have a youth system which is providing players to the first team squad.

We have a manager with prior success who cares deeply about the club.

We have a strong fan base.

The other things that we need all cost such as Academy upgrades, Premier League players, Extensive Scouting.

Behind this we have an owner who didn’t want to be sole owner but was effectively pushed into an all or nothing scenario by his previous partner. He seems unable to sell whether through unrealistic pricing or lack of interest, I doubt any are really party to the details.

So at best, we yo-yo. Unfortunately this involves getting pummelled at this level as even the better players struggle.

The chasm between top and second tier illustrates how this cycle is difficult to break.

Trusty did well for Brum last year; he looks absolutely hopeless this year.

Hamer hit double figures in goals and assists last year; he is a peripheral figure much of the time this year.

Baldock and Bogle will again comfortably be two of the better right sided options next year if they stayed. But we know how outmatched Bogle is and George has just gone over his peak in my view too.

I could go on. But the truth is, as bad as we seem this year, the same players would still see you finish top three or four next year in the Championship.

So your hope is that you get some young players who have a high ceiling and take you with them. Perhaps Arblaster is next season’s Ndiaye?

That’s your hope but then you potentially end up the same in 12 months; promoted, no money to spend and expected to come down again. But if you accept that being a yo-yo team is the best you can expect for a while then this is the medicine you have to take.

Good post.

Damned if we do and damned if we don’t really. We need the PL money to stay afloat but can’t spend when we’re there because the money is needed to sustain us in the Championship upon inevitable relegation.

 

[Bladezz]

It didn’t stop, it was just bigger boys with deeper pockets looked at what we were doing and inflated the market beyond our reach. Then we were looking at second tier Championship player and the risks increased.
If we could be promoted and stay up, we could return to that policy as Palace are the only ones now in that market.
When we go down, we need to be developing our own players or looking at league one for talent, supplemented with a quality loan or two.

Luton doing just fine with the exact same method.

Signed Chong Birmingham’s best player… we signed Trusty

As a fan base we wanted foreign players so we got Slimane / Traore / Laroucci

 

[Houso]

Luton doing just fine with the exact same method.

Signed Chong Birmingham’s best player… we signed Trusty

As a fan base we wanted foreign players so we got Slimane / Traore / Laroucci

Birmingham supporters were more effusive in praise of Trusty.

That said, I do wish we'd been looking at the likes of Chong and Ogbene.

 

[Bladezz]

Birmingham supporters were more effusive in praise of Trusty.

That said, I do wish we'd been looking at the likes of Chong and Ogbene.

Barkley / Anderson / Mengi / Kaminski

All there signings this year we could have had and didn’t.

Our play was to get the best from league below and we didn’t. But Luton with less money could?

 

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

Ambition? A ten year investment and ripping everything up with little likely to be returned short term. I’d say it’s entirely the opposite of ambition.
I want us back up here in the next 3 seasons with a squad we can build on rather than be looking to rip down and replace. Thats my ambition.

A 5-10 year plan, yes please. That doesn’t mean ripping everything up. It just means moving away from the culture we’ve had over the last 40yrs. And we won’t have a squad to build on, that’s not the way we do things every single time.

We just seem to move the same YOY. If your ambition is more of the same then I doubt that’s even ambition. Stagnation.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Luton doing just fine with the exact same method.

Signed Chong Birmingham’s best player… we signed Trusty

As a fan base we wanted foreign players so we got Slimane / Traore / Laroucci

I think you're missing the point of my post.
Chong wasn't a top Championship player at that time, but more what I suggested would be the second tier that has more risk and yes we signed Trusty instead.
None of those you listed above were top tier Championship players in their positions last year. They gambled on their analytics and got more right than wrong.

You do this a lot when you generalise about "the fan base", normally framing it as diametrically opposed to your current view. I'm not sure there was a majority for this signing of risky kids from abroad. I think those that were in favour or moving away from UK based talent were looking for more experienced players delivering more value for money. Those you listed certainly haven't done that so far. They wanted signings similar to those Brighton and Brentford have been making, and as always it's with hindsight in mind. Then again, there are those who were saying we'd missed the boat to WBA when they signed Wallace, Swift, and Mowatt, and that they were going to walk the league. It's not an exact science and no certain way for success, but we were pretty good at it last time Wilder was here, up until Villa, West Ham, Palace and others looked to copy our approach but you need PL money to make it work now.

 

[Bladezz]

I think you're missing the point of my post.
Chong wasn't a top Championship player at that time, but more what I suggested would be the second tier that has more risk and yes we signed Trusty instead.
None of those you listed above were top tier Championship players in their positions last year. They gambled on their analytics and got more right than wrong.

You do this a lot when you generalise about "the fan base", normally framing it as diametrically opposed to your current view. I'm not sure there was a majority for this signing of risky kids from abroad. I think those that were in favour or moving away from UK based talent were looking for more experienced players delivering more value for money. Those you listed certainly haven't done that so far. They wanted signings similar to those Brighton and Brentford have been making, and as always it's with hindsight in mind. Then again, there are those who were saying we'd missed the boat to WBA when they signed Wallace, Swift, and Mowatt, and that they were going to walk the league. It's not an exact science and no certain way for success, but we were pretty good at it last time Wilder was here, up until Villa, West Ham, Palace and others looked to copy our approach but you need PL money to make it work now.

I Agree with you some what.

But everyone in the league knew that Ogbenne was one of the best full backs / wingers in the league just from his performances at Rotherham. It’s same again with their goalkeeper is isn’t the best in the league but everyone knows he’s one of the better ones.

Chong was a stand out for Birmingham and was pretty comfortably one of the better players.

Of course I generalise it’s a fans forum, where there are hundreds of different ideas. But a fair generalisation was that we didn’t utilise the foreign market. We tried that this time and wasted millions.

The common denominator is the recruitment is poor. We have wasted so much money it’s a joke.