Barnsley - Play For a Win or Play For a Draw?

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William Henry Foulkes

William Henry Foulkes

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NC has said in an interview that the priority is not to lose.

A few thoughts: As has been pointed out in another thread 2 wins and a loss is better than 1 win and 2 draws. But this is if you are only considering your own points total.

If we draw at Barnsley then we keep them at arms length (best place for them). If we attack then we are taking risks. They win, they close the gap.

How to play it?

Given that our shaky defence is unlikely to withstand any period of sustained pressure, and that generally attack is the best form of defence we should set out to win the game (by passing sideways and backwards - but at a higher tempo ;)).

I can't see how it poses any greater risk than trying to hold out for a draw.
 

raul said:
Here is a list of great things achieved by teams when playing for a draw
Please feel free to add any omissions.
Click to expand...

There are countless examples. One that springs to mind is England drawing 0-0 in Italy (under Hoddle?) to qualify for a tournament. Red Star(?) beating Marseille(?) in the European Cup Final. It was apparent after 10 minutes they were playing for penalties. They did, and they won.

Every season in the It's a Knockout stages of the Champions-and-Runners-Up-and-Sometimes-Third-and-Sometimes-Even-Fourth-Place League plenty of teams play for a draw in the first leg or hold on for a draw in the second.

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
 
Howard

Brayford McEveley Kennedy Harris

Freeman Doyle Coutts Basham McFadzean

Davies ( for defensive headers of course)

Make no bones about it, defend for our lives. What? We're playing Barnsley? Not Real Madrid?:rolleyes:
 
raul said:
Please feel free to add any omissions.
Click to expand...

Over twenty years later in 2011, talking to a French football magazine about the famous win in Bari, Siniša Mihajlović said:

That final is still very vivid in my memory. I think it was the most boring final match in the European Cup history. Few hours before the match, seven of us were shown tapes with Olympique matches. I remember [manager] Ljupko Petrović telling us: 'If we attack them we'll leave ourselves open for counterattacks', to which I asked 'so, what do we do then'. His answer was: 'When you get the ball, give it back to them'. So we spent 120 minutes on the pitch without practically touching the ball. The match went to penalties, [Marseille player] Manuel Amoros failed to convert his whereas we converted all five. Had we approached the match with attacking mentality, we probably would've lost, not because Olympique were necessarily better than us, but because their players were used to playing big matches like this one. We had a squad full of 21, 22, and 23-year-old kids.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
There are countless examples. One that springs to mind is England drawing 0-0 in Italy (under Hoddle?) to qualify for a tournament. Red Star(?) beating Marseille(?) in the European Cup Final. It was apparent after 10 minutes they were playing for penalties. They did, and they won.

Every season in the It's a Knockout stages of the Champions-and-Runners-Up-and-Sometimes-Third-and-Sometimes-Even-Fourth-Place League plenty of teams play for a draw in the first leg or hold on for a draw in the second.

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
Click to expand...

I can obviously see the benefit of not losing, it would improve our relative position with Barnsley whilst giving us another point. The problem has been that this has been the approach all season. We need to be in a winning and positive frame of mind going into the play-offs, you can't just turn it on.

Scrap the draw in football I say :)
 
raul said:
My apologies, I was unaware that we were playing Barnsley in a two-legged affair.
Click to expand...

You asked for examples of when anything had been won by playing for a draw - there are definitely 100s, probably 1000s of examples. One-legged, two-legged, probably even three-legged :)

Playing for a draw is just part of football and has been for decades. If you're going to persist in disputing this point there's not much anyone can do about it. :confused:

As for specific one-off games, there's the England Italy (I was amazed how easily they did this - though from memory Italy did hit the post) or the notorious 1991 European Cup Final which I've already posted about twice, where not only did they play for a draw they actually gave the opposition the ball. A tactic Mourinho later deployed against Barcelona I think - possibly for Inter Milan. From memory Inter(?) won.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
You asked for examples of when anything had been won by playing for a draw - there are definitely 100s, probably 1000s of examples. One-legged, two-legged, probably even three-legged :)

Playing for a draw is just part of football and has been for decades. If you're going to persist in disputing this point there's not much anyone can do about it. :confused:

As for specific one-off games, there's the England Italy (I was amazed how easily they did this - though from memory Italy did hit the post) or the notorious 1991 European Cup Final which I've already posted about twice, where not only did they play for a draw they actually gave the opposition the ball. A tactic Mourinho later deployed against Barcelona I think - possibly for Inter Milan. From memory Inter(?) won.
Click to expand...

If we'd played more, shall we say, adventurously, in the previous 39 games then maybe the scenarios you're talking about could have been employed in the final games to ensure promotion, not to ensure we finish 5th in Division 3.
 

William Henry Foulkes said:
You asked for examples of when anything had been won by playing for a draw - there are definitely 100s, probably 1000s of examples. One-legged, two-legged, probably even three-legged :)

Playing for a draw is just part of football and has been for decades. If you're going to persist in disputing this point there's not much anyone can do about it. :confused:

As for specific one-off games, there's the England Italy (I was amazed how easily they did this - though from memory Italy did hit the post) or the notorious 1991 European Cup Final which I've already posted about twice, where not only did they play for a draw they actually gave the opposition the ball. A tactic Mourinho later deployed against Barcelona I think - possibly for Inter Milan. From memory Inter(?) won.
Click to expand...
Didn't we play for a draw vs Wigan in our last PL game (and last means last ever time way we are going)?
 
Barnsley are on very good form and as we appear to be nothing more than an avergae top 6 side, a draw in theory would not be a bad result. But I don't want to go there and play for a draw. I just think thats the best we will probably get.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
There are countless examples. One that springs to mind is England drawing 0-0 in Italy (under Hoddle?) to qualify for a tournament. Red Star(?) beating Marseille(?) in the European Cup Final. It was apparent after 10 minutes they were playing for penalties. They did, and they won.

Every season in the It's a Knockout stages of the Champions-and-Runners-Up-and-Sometimes-Third-and-Sometimes-Even-Fourth-Place League plenty of teams play for a draw in the first leg or hold on for a draw in the second.

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
Click to expand...

I just don't think we are good enough to play for a draw , due to the ongoing season back four frailties . Perhaps Clough is kidding , to give Barnsley a curve ball and we go all out to win the game . They say the best form of defence is attack . We cannot risk just going for a draw, with 3 points for a win , 1 point for a draw , could / is costing us.

UTB
 
Lord Bos of Eckington. said:
I just don't think we are good enough to play for a draw , due to the ongoing season back four frailties . Perhaps Clough is kidding , to give Barnsley a curve ball and we go all out to win the game . They say the best form of defence is attack . We cannot risk just going for a draw, with 3 points for a win , 1 point for a draw , could / is costing us.

UTB
Click to expand...

Agreed. See OP :)
 
Its a 6 pointer and no mistake and we are out of form (9 points out of the last 24), playing away against a team which is in form who are points behind us. If there is one game in our remaining 7 that we need not to lose it is this one.

Having said that if we don't defend high enough, simply play for a draw without any ambition for a win, offer little or nothing up front we will get rolled over I think because I cannot see us keeping a clean sheet - our defence isn't up to it. We need to have an outlet ball other than the one to Murphy and play counter-attack because I think Barnsley will come at us. Some pace, movement and penetration in passing would also help :p If Flynn isn't fit I would start with Done on the right as he has pace, defensive qualities and an eye for goal.

Assuming McEveley and Kennedy are going to be fit I would go

Howard
Brayford Kennedy McEveley Harris
Basham
Done Baxter Holt Murphy
Davies
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
NC has said in an interview that the priority is not to lose.

A few thoughts: As has been pointed out in another thread 2 wins and a loss is better than 1 win and 2 draws. But this is if you are only considering your own points total.

If we draw at Barnsley then we keep them at arms length (best place for them). If we attack then we are taking risks. They win, they close the gap.

How to play it?

Given that our shaky defence is unlikely to withstand any period of sustained pressure, and that generally attack is the best form of defence we should set out to win the game (by passing sideways and backwards - but at a higher tempo ;)).

I can't see how it poses any greater risk than trying to hold out for a draw.
Click to expand...
William Henry Foulkes said:
NC has said in an interview that the priority is not to lose.

A few thoughts: As has been pointed out in another thread 2 wins and a loss is better than 1 win and 2 draws. But this is if you are only considering your own points total.

If we draw at Barnsley then we keep them at arms length (best place for them). If we attack then we are taking risks. They win, they close the gap.

How to play it?

Given that our shaky defence is unlikely to withstand any period of sustained pressure, and that generally attack is the best form of defence we should set out to win the game (by passing sideways and backwards - but at a higher tempo ;)).

I can't see how it poses any greater risk than trying to hold out for a draw.
Click to expand...
Barnsley will be thinking exactly the same what team do you know that goes out to lose a game so in my eyes that will make it a draw unless barnsley score 2 as we can only seem to score 1goal most games
 
Dalelane01 said:
Barnsley will be thinking exactly the same what team do you know that goes out to lose a game so in my eyes that will make it a draw unless barnsley score 2 as we can only seem to score 1goal most games
Click to expand...

Barnsley are playing catch-up so a draw is no good for them. They went for it at Brizzle last week so I don't think they're going to sit back against us. That might play into our hands provided, as you say, we don't concede 2 !
 
Cyprus Blade said:
Its a 6 pointer and no mistake and we are out of form (9 points out of the last 24), playing away against a team which is in form who are points behind us. If there is one game in our remaining 7 that we need not to lose it is this one.

Having said that if we don't defend high enough, simply play for a draw without any ambition for a win, offer little or nothing up front we will get rolled over I think because I cannot see us keeping a clean sheet - our defence isn't up to it. We need to have an outlet ball other than the one to Murphy and play counter-attack because I think Barnsley will come at us. Some pace, movement and penetration in passing would also help :p If Flynn isn't fit I would start with Done on the right as he has pace, defensive qualities and an eye for goal.

Assuming McEveley and Kennedy are going to be fit I would go

Howard
Brayford Kennedy McEveley Harris
Basham
Done Baxter Holt Murphy
Davies
Click to expand...
Kennedy has picked up a groin injury in the U21's on Tuesday so I reckon Brayford will stay at centre half with Freeman right back

From the rest of your team, i think Done will start up front and Scougill in stead of Holt. If Flynn is fit, i think he will be wide right if not I reckon Coutts or Baxter will play in that position

Howard
Freeman Brayford,McEverley Harris
Doyle Basham
Flynn Scougill Murphy
Done
 

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