Lets put this FFP excuse to bed

[georgebernardshaw]

It's Magnet. Gallon of Magnet.

Maggots, always maggots

 

[Sean Thornton]

In which case, saying to people "look at the accounts" isn't particularly helpful or feasible

Apologies, don't know why I typed that load of bollocks about not being available,the info is available and I have the download on my pc but as its a pdf I cant copy and paste it but the loss to June 2014 was £4.45 million.

 

[AlienBlade]

Show me where I've wrote down costs?

Granted we're still losing money through general practices of running a football club but regardless of financial specifics, it's evident we've hardly invested the amount of money that is required to gain promotion.

as I mentioned previously (and it's not like it doesnt happen) going shit or bust rarely works... if we sank another few million inthis year and it didnt work are you happy to be placed under a transfer embargo, fined and face other sanctions.... as spending money does not guarentee success!

just to generalised (not specifically aimed at you)

lets simplyfy this (these figures are illustrative purposes)

Income from Sponsors =£4m
Income from STH/Gates =£4m
Income from merchandise = £500k
income from selling players = £2m

Total Income = 10.5m

this means that the FFP would be £6.3m..... what it doesnt say is that the FFP is only those players which are on the books that are over 21 are counted....(I seem to remember reading that our wage bill was between £9m and £10m, why becuase the FFP if you then look how many players currently sit outside the FFP rules you will see why we can "overspend" but all we end up with is youngsters rather than experienced pros which we needed.... anyway I digress)

outgoings for players wages =£8m
outgoings for ordinary wages =£1m
outgoings for utilities/insurance = £1m
Outgoings for maintenance £500k
Outgoings for transfers (including loan fees/signing on fees) £2m

Total Outgoings =£12.5m

so that's a loss of £2m that has to be ANNUALLY (be careful to have two n's there or its a whole meaning) injected into the club...

and that doesnt include other Capital expenses such as a new pitch or building works, pension contributions... etc.etc.)

so apart from the additional £2m to keep the business afloat (you cannot trade if you are not solvent) people expect them to magic up another £5m indefinitely

 

[Worksop II]

to magic up another £5m indefinitely

I thought thats what the Arab Prince was for ....

 

[AlienBlade]

I thought thats what the Arab Prince was for ....

he was there to inject money to keep the club running and some provide finance for players (I seemed to remember the club is operating at a £5m deficit per year.... which means to even spend £1m extra you need to inject £6m.... considering what we have spent since the Prince came along that is significant....especially for a league 1 club. the short termism is why we are in this mess in the first place.... going shit or bust...

 

[davidpinder]

Unless I'm missing something I find posts like this almost literally incredible.

The Prince is spending around £5m (that's Five Million Pounds) of *his own money* every season.

Instead of support or gratitude or any number of other perhaps more appropriate responses he gets a complaint: "It's not enough you tight-arsed bastard."

It's like someone buys you a fleet of cars for Christmas and you complain bc they're not all Ferraris.

Am I missing something?

So why not spend a bit more get us out this shite league and not have to put any in because we are in the championship with bigger gates and more revenue as a whole??

 

[AlienBlade]

So why not spend a bit more get us out this shite league and not have to put any in because we are in the championship with bigger gates and more revenue as a whole??

I have a brilliant idea.... will you sign a contract that any money that is overspent this season you will pay back (within the year) if by some chance we miss out on promotion?

I mean you seem to think that spending a "bit more" will automatically assure promotion.... (oh if it was that simple)

the reason why we dont is becuase if we did over spend and didnt get promotion we would be up shit creek without a canoe never mind a padal!

 

[Worksop II]

up shit creek without a canoe never mind a padal!

No we wouldnt, Princey just chucks some more money in ................

 

[Barney]

as I mentioned previously (and it's not like it doesnt happen) going shit or bust rarely works... if we sank another few million inthis year and it didnt work are you happy to be placed under a transfer embargo, fined and face other sanctions.... as spending money does not guarentee success!

just to generalised (not specifically aimed at you)

lets simplyfy this (these figures are illustrative purposes)

Income from Sponsors =£4m
Income from STH/Gates =£4m
Income from merchandise = £500k
income from selling players = £2m

Total Income = 10.5m

this means that the FFP would be £6.3m..... what it doesnt say is that the FFP is only those players which are on the books that are over 21 are counted....(I seem to remember reading that our wage bill was between £9m and £10m, why becuase the FFP if you then look how many players currently sit outside the FFP rules you will see why we can "overspend" but all we end up with is youngsters rather than experienced pros which we needed.... anyway I digress)

outgoings for players wages =£8m
outgoings for ordinary wages =£1m
outgoings for utilities/insurance = £1m
Outgoings for maintenance £500k
Outgoings for transfers (including loan fees/signing on fees) £2m

Total Outgoings =£12.5m

so that's a loss of £2m that has to be ANNUALLY (be careful to have two n's there or its a whole meaning) injected into the club...

and that doesnt include other Capital expenses such as a new pitch or building works, pension contributions... etc.etc.)

so apart from the additional £2m to keep the business afloat (you cannot trade if you are not solvent) people expect them to magic up another £5m indefinitely

Where are you getting the figures from out of interest? Not a dig they look accurate enough (aside from the selling players one) i'm just wondering where they're from.

 

[Sean Thornton]

as I mentioned previously (and it's not like it doesnt happen) going shit or bust rarely works... if we sank another few million inthis year and it didnt work are you happy to be placed under a transfer embargo, fined and face other sanctions.... as spending money does not guarentee success!

just to generalised (not specifically aimed at you)

lets simplyfy this (these figures are illustrative purposes)

Income from Sponsors =£4m
Income from STH/Gates =£4m
Income from merchandise = £500k
income from selling players = £2m

Total Income = 10.5m

this means that the FFP would be £6.3m..... what it doesnt say is that the FFP is only those players which are on the books that are over 21 are counted....(I seem to remember reading that our wage bill was between £9m and £10m, why becuase the FFP if you then look how many players currently sit outside the FFP rules you will see why we can "overspend" but all we end up with is youngsters rather than experienced pros which we needed.... anyway I digress)

outgoings for players wages =£8m
outgoings for ordinary wages =£1m
outgoings for utilities/insurance = £1m
Outgoings for maintenance £500k
Outgoings for transfers (including loan fees/signing on fees) £2m

Total Outgoings =£12.5m

so that's a loss of £2m that has to be ANNUALLY (be careful to have two n's there or its a whole meaning) injected into the club...

and that doesnt include other Capital expenses such as a new pitch or building works, pension contributions... etc.etc.)

so apart from the additional £2m to keep the business afloat (you cannot trade if you are not solvent) people expect them to magic up another £5m indefinitely

For player transfers the money only becomes part of the SCMP calculation when actually paid or received. So if we sold a player and were paid in two instalments over two years, its only allowable when the cash hits the bank. And the same for when we buy a player. So when we sell Higdon to Oldham for ten million, its only when the pay anything we get to spend it, so lets not get ahead of ourselves when that happens

 

[judge]

I have a brilliant idea.... will you sign a contract that any money that is overspent this season you will pay back (within the year) if by some chance we miss out on promotion?

I mean you seem to think that spending a "bit more" will automatically assure promotion.... (oh if it was that simple)

the reason why we dont is becuase if we did over spend and didnt get promotion we would be up shit creek without a canoe never mind a padal!

Well , when you put it like that .maybe losing in the play offs every year is a great achievement for a club like ours

Serve me right for getting ideas above my station like finishing top or second in the wankest lg 1 ever

 

[FriethBlade]

Dear me, many missing the point of my original post...nothing to do with what's been put in already, ongoing operating costs etc etc. Just pointing out that the lack of signings is nothing to do with FFP. The prince can put as much money in as he wants so the lack of signings has absolutely nothing to do with FFP rules that is fact whatever else anyone wants to debate. If you don't believe me read the rules.

 

[davidpinder]

he was there to inject money to keep the club running and some provide finance for players (I seemed to remember the club is operating at a £5m deficit per year.... which means to even spend £1m extra you need to inject £6m.... considering what we have spent since the Prince came along that is significant....especially for a league 1 club. the short termism is why we are in this mess in the first place.... going shit or bust...

 

[Rodley]

Well , when you put it like that .maybe losing in the play offs every year is a great achievement for a club like ours

Serve me right for getting ideas above my station like finishing top or second in the wankest lg 1 ever

No one is arguing that we should be in this league. Not one person. No one wants that.

But then some shouldn't get the monk on if people get fed up with moaning over and over again about how shit everything is and seeking / inventing new angles to essentially make the same point. Let people derive some pleasure from some of the small wins and hold some hope that things will improve. Because if people have lost that, it begs the question why are they spending time and money on what clearly is the wrong hobby.

Up the Blades!!

 

[Worksop II]

The prince can put as much money in as he wants so the lack of signings has absolutely nothing to do with FFP rules

But still it goes on

 

[blade too long]

You always seem to tottaly miss the point of the post you are replying to

He has stated quite clearly that there are different rules for lg 1 and 2 clubs than championship and yet you come in all guns blazing talking about qpr's promotion season to the championship

his claim was FFP RULES CARRY NO SANCTIONS quite clearly he wanted to know why we dont say fuck it and spend big

I was just showing hes showing owls typs delussional qualities
they jump on clubs with great vigour

I wasnt me missing the point , he didnt have one
it was his utter ignorance of reality

 

[judge]

his claim was FFP RULES CARRY NO SANCTIONS quite clearly he wanted to know why we dont say fuck it and spend big

I was just showing hes showing owls typs delussional qualities
they jump on clubs with great vigour

His claim was that its in the rules that owners can gift/fund transfers as bournemouth did (its been discussed on this forum many times ) , as its allowed in the rules there wouldnt be any sanctions

 

[judge]

No one is arguing that we should be in this league. Not one person. No one wants that.

But then some shouldn't get the monk on if people get fed up with moaning over and over again about how shit everything is and seeking / inventing new angles to essentially make the same point. Let people derive some pleasure from some of the small wins and hold some hope that things will improve. Because if people have lost that, it begs the question why are they spending time and money on what clearly is the wrong hobby.

Up the Blades!!

So any criticism or negative comment on here is stopping otherwise happy contented supporters from enjoying being 6th in a substandard league one ?

Well what do we talk about then ?

 

[blade too long]

I'm not advocating nor agreeing with the OP in the slightest but one point I would respectfully pick up on is that our tickets prices should 30% lower than those across the city as the division we're in is 100% lower!!

I didnt think Id ever hear a "blade" put it that way

a sad sad day

 

[blade too long]

So any criticism or negative comment on here is stopping otherwise happy contented supporters from enjoying being 6th in a substandard league one ?

Well what do we talk about then ?

so you think 65th is our final position
do you have access to all bournemouths finances
amazing how you know the ins and outs of the south coast club

when was any league over in october

 

[blade too long]

His claim was that its in the rules that owners can gift/fund transfers as bournemouth did (its been discussed on this forum many times ) , as its allowed in the rules there wouldnt be any sanctions

how the fuck does he "know" thats true
once again wild speculation
ah theyve spent more ITS TRUE
never listed who they sold


show us some factual evidence they flouted the rules
not whats been rumoured in here

 

[Barney]

his claim was FFP RULES CARRY NO SANCTIONS quite clearly he wanted to know why we dont say fuck it and spend big

I was just showing hes showing owls typs delussional qualities
they jump on clubs with great vigour

I wasnt me missing the point , he didnt have one
it was his utter ignorance of reality

How is stating the rules showing 'delusional qualities'?

He's stated a true fact/rule that diminishes any clapper agenda that the reason we can't put money in is due to FFP.

Care to explain?

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Dear me, many missing the point of my original post...nothing to do with what's been put in already, ongoing operating costs etc etc. Just pointing out that the lack of signings is nothing to do with FFP. The prince can put as much money in as he wants so the lack of signings has absolutely nothing to do with FFP rules that is fact whatever else anyone wants to debate. If you don't believe me read the rules.

There was a thread on this a few months ago. I might even have started it myself.

No we (and when I say we I mean the Prince bc I haven't got £20m) are not restricted in Division 3 by FFP, though I think the rules are tighter* in Division 2.

The tone of OP seemed pretty clear to me, as does the post quoted:

Why don't you excavate lorry-loads of cash from your bottomless pit of money you tight-arse, and buy us our way out of this godforsaken League - after all there's nothing in the rules to stop you.

*Ie irrelevant, but you need more expensive accountants?

 

[metalblade]

It would seem like the usual suspects have as always lost sight of the OP in their mad scramble to defend the club from the perceived negative post (did they actually read the OP ?). It is a fact that a owner can put as much money in as he wants whilst in league one so this is the time to invest if possible not when we reach the Championship where the rules change as QPR and Forest have found out. To suggest we could be hit by sanctions is utter twaddle and how this thread has turned into a dissection of the accounts is laughable, the lengths some will go to to muddy the waters is amazing, nearly has amazing as how other much smaller clubs can manage to bring in better players yet Sheffield United struggle to bring in basic league one standard defenders for well over a full season or for that matter bring in good standard league one players for the last five years.

 

[blade too long]

How is stating the rules showing 'delusional qualities'?

He's stated a true fact/rule that diminishes any clapper agenda that the reason we can't put money in is due to FFP.

Care to explain?

au contraire me pulled out 2 basic lines to support his claim
but FFP is about the detail not the selected highlights

clubs can claim against sales
but doesnt sammon and shap costs cancel out murphys sale
its small details like denying we ever spend money that are missing the point

the clubs knockers somehow have a blind spot for expenditure, they think
we pay people from the money trees on cherry street

 

[judge]

so you think 65th is our final position where do you get this shit from ?
do you have access to all bournemouths finances I havent even mentioned bournemouth
amazing how you know the ins and outs of the south coast club read above reply ,

when was any league over in october something else I havent even touched on

 

[judge]

how the fuck does he "know" thats true
once again wild speculation
ah theyve spent more ITS TRUE
never listed who they sold


show us some factual evidence they flouted the rules
not whats been rumoured in here

Ive read my post and read your reply and either im pissed or you are
( I havent had a drink for 3 years )

 

[PeteBlade]

I didnt think Id ever hear a "blade" put it that way

a sad sad day

You didn't think you'd ever hear a Blade say our ticket prices should be lower because we're in a lower division?

Are you for real?

 

[Cyprus Blade]

show us some factual evidencey have e they flouted the rules

The point is they operated within the rules that apply to League 1, which they were in at the time.

Re QPR - they knowingly flouted the rules in the Championship because they thought they would stay in the Premiership (the Football League has no sanction on a Premiership club). When they dropped back down at one point they were threatened with expulsion from the Football League - mainly because they told the FL to go forth and multiply when they were in the PL.

They have,in fact, got off very lightly. £8m fine which could so easily been £50m and worse - no doubt the PL parachute payments (£60m over 4 years from the start of the 2014-15 season - http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/22171365) will have convinced them that it was worth taking the risk.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/aug/18/qpr-fine-financial-fair-play-8m

In my view parachute payments should not be paid to clubs in breach of FFP or the sanctions imposed should at least recognise that the offender has profited from them.

 

[blade too long]

you cant take odd lines out of the FFP Rules and say we can go further , its not our call
T

You didn't think you'd ever hear a Blade say our ticket prices should be lower because we're in a lower division?

Are you for real?

never was the argument
Wednesday are charging more than most prem clubs for tickets
Our club has always been sympathetic towards our fans and our gates are a testament to their pricing
Our board looks after us as far as ticket prices go