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UddersBlade said:
What a joke this owner is…..taking more high interest loans to basically allow him to kick the can down the road and to allow him to fund the club.

He cannot afford to run either a Premier League or Championship club. He’s got himself in a right mess now. He missed his chance to sell in April 2023 - now he’ll be luck to get an offer at £50 million - let alone the £170 million talked about back then.

Please can someone tell me what his Legacy is going to be after 3 out of the last 5 seasons in the Premier League ? Certainly no Cat 1 academy or new training ground. We will have literally hardly anything to show, but will be exiting with outstanding debts!
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We would be in league 1 still if Mcabee was still here. He’s not the richest man in the world but i do believe he has the best interests of the club at heart. He has put a lot into the club and we have enjoyed spells in the prem because of it.

I do agree that we have wasted the opportunity to be more established and better off because of it. The squad especially is of championship quality, some of the players are L1. Our recruitment has been shocking and we sign all the wrong types of players for any kind of long term success. Basically just try hards with limited ability.

So whilst we have made progress with being in top flight and owning the ground the squad is probably no better off than it was 5 years ago. Considering the riches of the top tier that is criminal. The managers and recruitment are to blame for this more so than the prince who has given all he can. Didn’t wilder spend over £100 mill in the first season we got back to the prem?

Is it fair to knock the owner for not spending beyond his means but also say he should’ve been more wreckless with his spending?
 

Carlton Blade said:
We aren't getting any money for Archer. We lent them our FFP space for a season. The most we'll get back is whatever we've paid out in a fee in Y1 (that won't be known until the accounts come in). That won't be profit and it will have already been accounted for in next seasons budget
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How do you know how it has been accounted for
 
Carlton Blade said:
He's Saudi royal family. He didn't generate his own funding to pull his business (that he no longer owns) up from nowhere.

So he's doing well because other people are worse? That's "your research"? There are no lower standards in any form of business than "well, look over there, it could be worse".
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How do you know his wealth came directly from the Royal family ? he owned a paper factory and has held high profile positions in the Saudi sporting world, albeit appointed by the royal family his credentials must have matched up.

As for looking at other companies to gauge how well your business might or might not be doing, well in my business i did it all the time, via companies house annual returns, some of my clients wouldn't trade with me until they had checked my company returns to "companies house" to assess if we were a viable business, it happens all the time.
 
bertieblade said:
How do you know how it has been accounted for
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Because the club will be fully aware of how the deal is structured and what to expect in terms of income/expenditure depending on Archer's situation (relegated/stay up, United choosing to buy/choosing to send back)
 
bertieblade said:
Which would I assume be the player sale that Bettis referred to that we would be expected to make if we went down
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Possibly BB , but in our current squad possibly Hame
Carlton Blade said:
We aren't getting any money for Archer. We lent them our FFP space for a season. The most we'll get back is whatever we've paid out in a fee in Y1 (that won't be known until the accounts come in). That won't be profit and it will have already been accounted for in next seasons budget
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From what I’ve read -saw and heard we’ll get back what the valuation was when we did the expensive loan deal
Until then I’ll stick by what I’ve read seen and heard that , that’s the figure we’ll get back both here , blades- villa websites
If your right then fair enough
But I’m not running around like chicken lickin just because our club has taken out a loan for money it’ll be earning
Maybe we don’t spend any of the 200% profit from Anels sale and use that
If we bought him for 4 and are selling him for 12 like well run clubs do
Brentford/ Brighton
 
Espania blade said:
I love all these negative comments on how the club is run - how many on here have run a multi million pound business ?
Trust the process, all will be fine.
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It's the usual culprits Espania blade ! Can't wait to blast the club.
I've said it before and I'll say it again!
Pigs in sheep's clothing!!.
 
This is standard fare under the a prince's ownership and our time in the premier league. Not sure why people are just noticing now.

The club needs him gone. Unfortunately he has only just got a seller involved to weed out the obvious wrong UN's he couldn't even be bothered to Google.
 
Espania blade said:
How do you know his wealth came directly from the Royal family ? he owned a paper factory and has held high profile positions in the Saudi sporting world, albeit appointed by the royal family his credentials must have matched up.

As for looking at other companies to gage how well your business might or might not be doing, well in my business i did it all the time, via companies house annual returns, some of my clients wouldn't trade with me until they had checked my company returns to "companies house" to assess if we were a viable business, it happens all the time.
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I don't know for sure, can't argue that. My assumption is because he's a member of the Saudi Royal Family and he was 24 years old, he'd not raised the money any other way. If he had, he wouldn't have been operating in Saudi or had "Saudi" in the name of the company. He was sporting minister for SA for a year. His credentials for it were his family and that he seems to quite like sport.

Companies House confirms existence and keeps records of accounts. It doesn't give you any more information on the profile of a business, if it's compatible with yours etc. It's the minimum basis of information
 
UddersBlade said:
What a joke this owner is…..taking more high interest loans to basically allow him to kick the can down the road and to allow him to fund the club.

He cannot afford to run either a Premier League or Championship club. He’s got himself in a right mess now. He missed his chance to sell in April 2023 - now he’ll be luck to get an offer at £50 million - let alone the £170 million talked about back then.

Please can someone tell me what his Legacy is going to be after 3 out of the last 5 seasons in the Premier League ? Certainly no Cat 1 academy or new training ground. We will have literally hardly anything to show, but will be exiting with outstanding debts!
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Stop crying ya wee fanny
 
dublin 10 blade said:
Possibly BB , but in our current squad possibly Hame

From what I’ve read -saw and heard we’ll get back what the valuation was when we did the expensive loan deal
Until then I’ll stick by what I’ve read seen and heard that , that’s the figure we’ll get back both here , blades- villa websites
If your right then fair enough
But I’m not running around like chicken lickin just because our club has taken out a loan for money it’ll be earning
Maybe we don’t spend any of the 200% profit from Anels sale and use that
If we bought him for 4 and are selling him for 12 like well run clubs do
Brentford/ Brighton
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For amortisation purposes the valuation was about £18m I think. United didn't have £18m to send to Villa, what they did have to send was the FFP space to help Villa avoid what has happened to Forest and Everton. Villa did a similar deal with Burnley for Ramsey
 
SUFCinks said:
We would be in league 1 still if Mcabee was still here. He’s not the richest man in the world but i do believe he has the best interests of the club at heart. He has put a lot into the club and we have enjoyed spells in the prem because of it.

I do agree that we have wasted the opportunity to be more established and better off because of it. The squad especially is of championship quality, some of the players are L1. Our recruitment has been shocking and we sign all the wrong types of players for any kind of long term success. Basically just try hards with limited ability.

So whilst we have made progress with being in top flight and owning the ground the squad is probably no better off than it was 5 years ago. Considering the riches of the top tier that is criminal. The managers and recruitment are to blame for this more so than the prince who has given all he can. Didn’t wilder spend over £100 mill in the first season we got back to the prem?

Is it fair to knock the owner for not spending beyond his means but also say he should’ve been more wreckless with his spending?
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I agree with most of that, but regarding buying players, at our level it's "hit and miss" other clubs at our level must have the same problems, personally i don't research other clubs "buying and spending" i don't have the time, buying any player has to be gamble at any level, I don't think we will see Wilder spuncking 100 million again in our lifetime Lol
 
Sean Thornton said:
Don’t go awarding yourself a medal for that. So can lots of people. What about his point about running a business of size?
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Think that's pretty obvious.
I can also work out Notts Forest have taken the piss by signing a ridiculous number of players on ridiculous money without having run a multi-million pound business as well.
 
UddersBlade said:
What a joke this owner is…..taking more high interest loans to basically allow him to kick the can down the road and to allow him to fund the club.

He cannot afford to run either a Premier League or Championship club. He’s got himself in a right mess now. He missed his chance to sell in April 2023 - now he’ll be luck to get an offer at £50 million - let alone the £170 million talked about back then.

Please can someone tell me what his Legacy is going to be after 3 out of the last 5 seasons in the Premier League ? Certainly no Cat 1 academy or new training ground. We will have literally hardly anything to show, but will be exiting with outstanding debts!
Click to expand...
Penny dropping?

I don't think the Prince has ever attempted to claim that he's got money to burn and right from the off in League one when he came in, there was no grand plans, it was all about progression. Sure there were updated plans along with McCabe to develop the South Stand and also the Kop, but there was never a commitment.

We've gone up through the leagues to the Premier League, twice under the Prince and whilst we tried to spend considerably more than we have done previously last time around, it very nearly became a millstone. If we'd not gone up, then we'd probably be in Admin now.

We perhaps made a calculated gamble in January to keep Ndiaye and Berge when we had offers to sell at least one of them, but we needed them to get out of the division. Selling them in the summer has been criticised by many fans and pundits, but it was probably the sensible option.

Whilst spending big money may have worked, the squad we have is limited in depth and quality would take a big overhaul to take us from a PL bottom 3 to a mid table maybe. It's a lot to risk.

The money we get from the Premier League for this season, along with Parachute payments (worst case) is big, but in relative terms when you have wages increasing it doesn't go a long way. Once the Parachute payments dry up, the drop in income is huge. We sat in the Championship last time with Berge, McBurnie, O'Connell, Brewster all on big wages but all injured for long spells. These players still get paid and that eats away. Thats reality.

Regarding his chance to sell in April, it was to a potential investor that couldn't pass a fit and proper persons test, neither could the previous. As a result he didn't sell, because as many forget, he's got to also manage and balance risks as well.

I agree that the legacy is something which is perhaps on hold. He's far from the perfect owner, but on the same token, he's far from the worst. He attempted, perhaps to push us on a little too quickly with spending in that second season in the PL last time and the horrendous season meant that we had to tighten our belt over the next few seasons. The Prince isn't flush with money, makes some poor decisions, but realises the importance of cash flow even if this is at the expense of high interest rates.

The major assets such as the ground, the training ground etc are all back under one company as i understand it and that can be considered a positive. Our playing squad needs to evolve better, we need more depth and we need to tie players down to longer contracts without killing ourselves. It's a fine line.

The Prince talked previously of buying young talent, developing them and then selling for more than we paid. Ndiaye can be considered a success in this respect, even if he went for less than his value. Berge was a failure in this respect, but we developed him into a better player, we just had to sell for what we could get or lose for nothing. Perhaps a reminder that we're not working with machines.

Debt in business is something which needs to be managed. The Prince may well sell some or all of the club during the lifetime of the loans, but the new owner or investor will also take on that debt. The Prince is using future guaranteed revenues to generate further cashflow for the business. Its not the best way to generate income, but it's a way which is used by many businesses in football and is certainly not reckless, even if financially it's not the best deal.

The key now, as per another thread recently is for stability and profitability, this is how we need to behave. This may become frustrating to many fans, but we don't have barrels of money so whilst those in S6 will mock, they should be more concerned about their own plight rather than ours
 

Carlton Blade said:
I don't know for sure, can't argue that. My assumption is because he's a member of the Saudi Royal Family and he was 24 years old, he'd not raised the money any other way. If he had, he wouldn't have been operating in Saudi or had "Saudi" in the name of the company. He was sporting minister for SA for a year. His credentials for it were his family and that he seems to quite like sport.

Companies House confirms existence and keeps records of accounts. It doesn't give you any more information on the profile of a business, if it's compatible with yours etc. It's the minimum basis of information
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Not sure i would agree with your assessment, saying the RF funded his "start up" hasn't as far as i know been validated by him or anyone else, Saying he was sporting minister because he "seemed to like sport" is just crass!
As for company accounts they give you enough information to know if a company is trading profitably, how much the directors are paying themselves which leads to ... is that company well run, and yes it does give you a profile on that business,
Also I wouldn't be looking to see if a certain company was compatible i would be looking at all of the above to assess if said company in the same market as us were in a better place, I would be looking at multiple companies in our space to see where we ranked in terms of profit & loss and income of the directors, although you only got the highest paid member of staff, (you could easily work out who that member of staff was) the rest of the other directors salary was lumped together, I always found reading other companies accounts somewhat addictive, business can be fascinating !
 
Espania blade said:
Yeah, I think he's a smart business man, people who get wealthy, and he is, anybody who's net worth is circa 150 million is wealthy,
The key question is he doing right by the club, I think he is , compare that to what Ashley did at Newcastle and other owners are currently doing at other clubs, If you do the research you might realise we could have an owner that is a lot worse.
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From your own “research” what was it that (in your world ) Ashley “ did at Newcastle” ? (from a purely £ perspective & ignoring the deluded , entitled fans frothing & foaming)
 
Espania blade said:
Not sure i would agree with your assessment, saying the RF funded his "start up" hasn't as far as i know been validated by him or anyone else, Saying he was sporting minister because he "seemed to like sport" is just crass!
As for company accounts they give you enough information to know if a company is trading profitably, how much the directors are paying themselves which leads to ... is that company well run, and yes it does give you a profile on that business,
Also I wouldn't be looking to see if a certain company was compatible i would be looking at all of the above to assess if said company in the same market as us were in a better place, I would be looking at multiple companies in our space to see where we ranked in terms of profit & loss and income of the directors, although you only got the highest paid member of staff, (you could easily work out who that member of staff was) the rest of the other directors salary was lumped together, I always found reading other companies accounts somewhat addictive, business can be fascinating !
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If criticising the actions of the Saudi Royal family makes me "crass", I can live with that

Companies House offers the bare minimum of information. It's about regulatory compliance and working within the legal frameworks for incorporation. The accounts offer a snapshot in time, useful but not enough to decide who's doing well and who isn't on it's own
 
SwissBlade said:
The key now, as per another thread recently is for stability and profitability, this is how we need to behave. This may become frustrating to many fans, but we don't have barrels of money so whilst those in S6 will mock, they should be more concerned about their own plight rather than ours
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Without significant subsidy from an Owner, is stability and being a profitable business (“sustainability”) achievable outside of League 1?
 
Perhaps wishful thinking but could the Prince have a bit of inside information on the Forest and Everton FFP cases and heavy points deductions are coming? Hence he’s more prepared now to spend in order to give us a chance of Premier League survival?

Also on a side note but why had Magiure put the Dracula and Kangaroo emojis on his tweet? Are this bank a bit dodgy or something?
 
Rodley said:
Without significant subsidy from an Owner, is stability and being a profitable business (“sustainability”) achievable outside of League 1?
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Only Brentford are doing really, but that relies on all the others spending big money. I don't think anybody outside of them is really truly sustainable.
 
Rodley said:
Without significant subsidy from an Owner, is stability and being a profitable business (“sustainability”) achievable outside of League 1?
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Luton lost £10m with a £27m wage budget. I'd guess United have higher commercial revenue but also higher operating costs? So maybe United could break even in the Championship with a £20m wage budget? That seems like the extreme end of what you could possibly compete on at Championship level?
 
Carlton Blade said:
For amortisation purposes the valuation was about £18m I think. United didn't have £18m to send to Villa, what they did have to send was the FFP space to help Villa avoid what has happened to Forest and Everton. Villa did a similar deal with Burnley for Ramsey
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I agree with you Carlts about helping them regarding FFP
I’d seen that myself, Villa have sailed pretty close to that line on numerous occasions even pre their playoff win , where if you thought we were close they’d have been fucked without that promotion
I’d still differ over the deal with you and how much we’d get back
After watching a Villa podcast after our game they were talking of only paying us 14 million back for Archer
But hey 🤷‍♂️ opinions are like arseholes ( not a dig btw ) we’ve all got em
 
Greasy Chap Butty said:
Only Brentford are doing really, but that relies on all the others spending big money. I don't think anybody outside of them is really truly sustainable.
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Brentford are still requiring significant subsidy from their Owner, as I understand it. I would have thought Benson would be in for £150-£200m in terms of equity and loans by now.
 

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