We have to change formation...

[S40BLADE]

Our fans love 3 at the back more than t’lane itself. I have never known any other club in history stay with one shape with as much vigour as us. At least between 2016 and 2020 we did some thing interesting and risky with 3atb/tactics to make us formidable to play against. But we have gone for 3 years now of no innovation in this same shape and its only getting more negative. I believe that our “system” itself was carried by player quality last season whereas under wilder the system carried the players.

Despite saying this, we have made it so hard to even consider anything else as we have made the awfully narrow-minded decision to force our academy teams to play the same shit uninspiring formation/tactics. To sum up this aimless rant we basically need to take more risk in the way we play as its for certain that nothing good will come from how we play right now.

 

[AnstonBlade1]

Sick of making this point. We spent all summer recruiting for 3-5-2. We have played this system for years. We can’t just drop it because our players aren’t good enough, they’re not good enough in any system, formation is totslly Irrelevant. Yea we are shit but 3-5-2 is the best with what we have available to us, like it or not.

We went to a back 4 at HT against Newcastle look how that went. If we went 4 at the back we would be exposing our weaknesses even more. We’re just shit, no use trying to play football manager, 3-5-2 is still the best we have with the players available, the quality of the personnel is the problem

Our fans love 3 at the back more than t’lane itself. I have never known any other club in history stay with one shape with as much vigour as us. At least between 2016 and 2020 we did some thing interesting and risky with 3atb/tactics to make us formidable to play against. But we have gone for 3 years now of no innovation in this same shape and its only getting more negative. I believe that our “system” itself was carried by player quality past season whereas under wilder the system carried the players.

Despite saying this, we have made it so hard to even consider anything else as we have made the awfully narrow-minded decision to force our academy teams to play the same shit uninspiring formation/tactics. To sum up this aimless rant we basically need to take more risk in the way we play as its for certain that nothing good will come from how we play right now.

100%, you look at every side in this league and they are full of quick attacking players we’ve got zero.

We’ve got nothing to attack/hurt teams with.

How good would it be to play with two quick wingers, time for this formation to go.

 

[crazyblade1889]

Sick of making this point. We spent all summer recruiting for 3-5-2. We have played this system for years. We can’t just drop it because our players aren’t good enough, they’re not good enough in any system, formation is totslly Irrelevant. Yea we are shit but 3-5-2 is the best with what we have available to us, like it or not.

We went to a back 4 at HT against Newcastle look how that went. If we went 4 at the back we would be exposing our weaknesses even more. We’re just shit, no use trying to play football manager, 3-5-2 is still the best we have with the players available, the quality of the personnel is the problem

So we just keep playing a formation that doesn’t work for us and is outdated? Teams know how to counter 3-5-2 very easily now so it doesn’t work. That’s why no one in the top leagues play it. If we want to progress we need to move forward with a better formation

 

[SE1Blade]

442, Bogle and Larouchi as wingers

Seems everyone has conveniently forgotten Stoke away last season

 

[SUFCinks]

we need to switch it up. We can’t just keep trying the same ineffective method. The current formation is shocking. Absolutely crazy to persevere with it IMO.

I can’t imagine us being any worse off at this point from a change.

 

[AnstonBlade1]

we need to switch it up. We can’t just keep trying the same ineffective method. The current formation is shocking. Absolutely crazy to persevere with it IMO.

I can’t imagine us being any worse off at this point from a change.

Exactly we’re losing week in week out anyway, this formation is done it’s had it’s time it’s time to move away from it.

 

[Pintor75]

Formation is outdated, we need 4-4-2 as people say other teams easily cope with our system, but I believe the players we've signed would be better with 442, and to think some want Wilder back

 

[jono_t2000]

We went to a back 4 at HT against Newcastle look how that went.

That's the thing tho innit, changing formation will take time to click.. but it seems like people just expect instant impact..

"Oh look we went to 4 at the back against Newcastle while chasing the game and got smashed... Better revert back to 3-5-2 for the rest of eternity now"

Like others have said, this is the time for Hecky to be brave and change things up for an extended run of games... As the saying goes, 'adapt or die'

 

[Carlton Blade]

United have conceded 2+ goals, 7 PL games in a row

Norwich 19/20 did it 8 times in a row. Ipswich 94/95 did it 9 times in a row
“That Derby” team, 5 times
The Swindon 93/94 team that conceded 100 were only at 3 times

We are up there with the greats

 

[Newbury Blade]

4-6-0 under Nigel Clough worked quite well.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

So we just keep playing a formation that doesn’t work for us and is outdated? Teams know how to counter 3-5-2 very easily now so it doesn’t work. That’s why no one in the top leagues play it. If we want to progress we need to move forward with a better formation

A fair comment, but the critical point in his post is they we haven’t recruited players to move away from it which makes a move away from it almost impossible.
If we’d gone in for Doyle for example, kept Arblaster, and looked to transition away from our system then fair enough, but we didn’t so your only change option is brining in Norwood.

 

[Bladezz]

PA has only played this formation. He has copied Wilder and never evolved it. It has given him great success which is amazing.

He needed to put his own twist on things. Wilder would change his 352 formation as we had the Duffy role or we would go like 3511 like we did at the sty for the 4-2.

We use to experiment with 343 quite regularly although it didn’t work.

Wilder & Knill worked on the formation for years and tweaked it. Hecky come in and copied and doesn’t have capacity to tweak it.

 

[blader]

So we just keep playing a formation that doesn’t work for us and is outdated? Teams know how to counter 3-5-2 very easily now so it doesn’t work. That’s why no one in the top leagues play it. If we want to progress we need to move forward with a better formation

Long term I might agree, but the point still stands that 3-5-2 is the best formation right now for the players we have.

2nd half of Newcastle should be a warning that a back 4 is not the way to go with this set of players as it doesn’t suit anyone’s game.

We are shit in all formations but all our players are made for 3-5-2 they just ain’t good. If we went to back 4 we would be EVEN worse, it’s been shown against Newcastle

 

[Blade59]

If we are going to change now would be the ideal time with 2 weeks to work on it.. The next 2 games we are hardly going to have much possession so appears pointless having 2 up front when they will rarely see the ball. Personally would try either 4 5 1 or 5 4 1 to try and retain some possession in midfield and stem the flow of chances teams are getting against us. I don't buy the theory that players can only play in one system. Did they only play 3 5 2 before joining us. Bigger question can the manager coach a different system.

 

[bakeblade]

Due to that bash injury, we don't have the personnel available to play 3-5-2 any more.

And that's a good thing. But does Hecky have the tactical nous to change?

The injuries and having no credible LWBs should give even the ultra cautious Hecky no choice now but to give it a go with 4

 

[CoatesyBlade]

4-3-3

Wes
Baldock Anel Trusty Robbo
Hamer Souza/Norwood Slimane
Brewster McB McAtee

If we stick with 5-3-2

Wes
Baldock Anel Trusty Robbo Thomas
Hamer Souza/Norwood Slimane
McAtee McB

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

I'm not against a change of shape. Wilder didn't have the personnel to change it, but Hecky potentially does. This wouldn't be like Slav trying to make a 4-4-2 happen with Brewster and McGoldrick as wide men.

However, I don't think it'll make a difference. The problem isn't the formation (or "the system"). The issues we're seeing aren't going to miraculously improve with a back four. We look like the worst coached team in the league - with and without the ball. There's no real style of play and the players look lost half the time.

 

[DSB-91]

I understand people’s points that we don’t have a lot of depth to change to a different system. I also don’t think there’s a formation that exists that’s going to drastically change the fortunes of this side.

Having said that, we’ve got to work with the players we’ve got and this current system is clearly failing miserably even to make us tough to beat.

Ultimately, what do we have to lose by attempting something different? Lose 8-0?

 

[ancientblade]

4-3-3

Wes
Baldock Anel Trusty Robbo
Hamer Souza/Norwood Slimane
Brewster McB McAtee

If we stick with 5-3-2

Wes
Baldock Anel Trusty Robbo Thomas
Hamer Souza/Norwood Slimane
McAtee McB

neither far too open 451 or 4231 no point playing 2 strikers if were outnumbered and have little possesion in midfield

 

[CoatesyBlade]

neither far too open 451 or 4231 no point playing 2 strikers if were outnumbered and have little possesion in midfield

The 4-3-3 is a 1 up front. Brewster and McAtee help Hamer and Slimane transition the ball up field.
The 5-3-2 was the players I’d use with our current formation

 

[ancientblade]

The 4-3-3 is a 1 up front. Brewster and McAtee help Hamer and Slimane transition the ball up field.
The 5-3-2 was the players I’d use with our current formation

right gotcha i think we have to go to a back 4 now egan and bash are as good as finished for the season i would be tempted to put robbo at left back with larrouchi left midfield im afraid thomas isnt premier league standard but weve just got to get more bodies in midfield

 

[CoatesyBlade]

I think a back 4 is the only option left (and I had Robbo at left back too) It’s a solid back 4 and the thinking is with more players in midfield and up top we will cause more problems. The best form of defence is attack, as oppose to our sit back and let the other team come on to us approach. We didn’t have a single shot in the first half yesterday, where as Fulham could’ve scored 3/4 goals!
Whether Hecky sees it like that though is another question.
The overlapping CB’s is done! Trusty will never be that player, but he showed enough yesterday that he could be solid in a flat 4.
I honestly thought Wilder would ditch the system but it never happened. Now our hand is being forced. If we changed it might just breath some new life back into the team

 

[SiamBlade]

4-5-1
Flood midfield with our 5 best passers of ball. One up front. Let’s at least try to have some spells of possession instead of the eternal hoof it upfield, sit and wait for it to come back

 

[SwissBlade]

Formation isn't the problem, we're devoid of confidence and sit so deep because we fear conceding. We've got ourselves into a position now where we automatically try to sit in, rather than getting in behind teams because we tried that for 20 mins against Newcastle and then got done, massively.

We can try different, unfamliar systems but we can also try to get the ball further up the field.... Goal Kicks don't help, playing the ball out when players are nervous also doesn't help, we need the ball higher up the field, either through fast breaks or sustained posession. But yesterday we got hit on the break and conceded - again, so changing formation doesn't change that automatically, having personnel to cover the breaks will...

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

Formation isn't the problem,

It is the problem now, because we don’t have the personnel to play three CB's anymore. If we get an injury/Red to one of Abel, trusty or Robbo, or one of them is having an absolute stinker then we'll have to switch to an unfamiliar system in the middle of a match.

Better to just get the team to switch to a different system for the rest of the season.

 

[SwissBlade]

It is the problem now, because we don’t have the personnel to play three CB's anymore. If we get an injury/Red to one of Abel, trusty or Robbo, or one of them is having an absolute stinker then we'll have to switch to an unfamiliar system in the middle of a match.

Better to just get the team to switch to a different system for the rest of the season.

We have 3 fit centre halves there, currently

We don’t currently have two natural full backs

Bogle is pretty poor defensively down the right. We need Baldock back generally but to play right back we do even more

Down the left both Thomas and Larouchi seem more accustomed to getting forward than being fullbacks. We need RND back

Personally think we need that Midfield combo sorting. Especially with two up top

 

[djbaldken]

Our formation is not the issue.
Its our style of play.
The current trend, and has been for a while, is to play out from the back. This is fine if you have the players that can do that.

We dont.

Yesterday, every time we attempted to play out from the back we lost possession before we got out of our own half.
But whenever we played 'hoofball' from the back yesterday, most of the time, we won possesion in their half. But then lost it again. But at least we were losing possession in THEIR half. Giving us more time to try to get it back and not infront of our goal.

Yes I know hoofball is not attractive. But with this current group of players , to me, it seems the better option.
Short term.
But what do I know.
Im not Fallowfield. (Thank Fuck)

 

[Smirth]

He won’t do it. It’ll be a back 3 of Robinson, Trusty and Anel while they remain fit. If one of them get injured then it’ll be Baldock (when fit) slotting in there somewhere.

It’s a joke how we haven’t looked at doing anything other than this for the last few years. It got found out badly in the premier league last time and we’ve just come up and tried it again with the same players except for Anel. Crazy if you think about it. All teams need to have the tactical acumen to play with other systems or formations and pick the system based on the teams you are playing. Forest did it last season and would fluctuate between a two centre backs or three depending on opposition so it’s not like a struggling team can’t or shouldn’t do it.

The only times we ever do it is during a game. We never start with a different system. The argument about the whole club being set up to play this way doesn’t wash with me, teams shouldn’t pigeon hole themselves as much as that and it’s just poor planning. No surprise really, ever since promotion to the premier league under Wilder we’ve got worse and worse with our forward planning and now we’re reaping what we sow. A poor team, playing an ineffective system at this level and embarrassing ourselves at the highest level, again.

 

[ancientblade]

when baldock is fit again we should be playing a back 4 of baldock anel trusty and robinson then a 5 of bogle hamer souza mcatee larrouchi with mcburnie or archer up top we would have far more possesion in games with that line up hecky is very naive playing 2 strikers in away games

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Even during the peak overlapping era we often changed formation when chasing a game so we know we can do it if needs be but the whole squad is built for 5 3 2 first.