Why aren’t we rich?

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dellasthunderbolt

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Let me first preface this by clarifying that I am genuinely asking the questions in this post. It is not a dig at the board or at Wilder for his signings or whatever. I am also a simpleton when it comes to finances So all queries are genuine.

It is just something that I have always nodded along with and pretended to understand but must now admit to not understanding at all: I why are we not rich after two seasons in the Prem? In my mind we are told about the top league being a money pit (ie the play off final being the £100 million pound game) but we seem absolutely fucked financially post-prem. so I thought is this the same for all teams and it doesn’t seem to be - West Brom seem quite capable of spending money whereas we appear broke. Even last time we got relegated was followed by a couple of years of (largely badly spent) wealth- Hendrie, Sharp, Henderson, Cotterill, Speed etc brought in) but this is clealry not the case this time. I’m fact, our finances seem to be somehow worse after the Premier league than before. We spent around £2 million on Norwood and £4 million on Egan before and seemed to be able to be competitive. I just don’t understand - and there is a good chance I’m just being a fuckwit but my confusion is genuine. Is it the signings in the prem that fucked us over financially (again, not a sly dig at Wilder)? That’s all I can fathom. Please help the financially incapable cos I don’t comprehend!
 

dellasthunderbolt said:
Let me first preface this by clarifying that I am genuinely asking the questions in this post. It is not a dig at the board or at Wilder for his signings or whatever. I am also a simpleton when it comes to finances So all queries are genuine.

It is just something that I have always nodded along with and pretended to understand but must now admit to not understanding at all: I why are we not rich after two seasons in the Prem? In my mind we are told about the top league being a money pit (ie the play off final being the £100 million pound game) but we seem absolutely fucked financially post-prem. so I thought is this the same for all teams and it doesn’t seem to be - West Brom seem quite capable of spending money whereas we appear broke. Even last time we got relegated was followed by a couple of years of (largely badly spent) wealth- Hendrie, Sharp, Henderson, Cotterill, Speed etc brought in) but this is clealry not the case this time. I’m fact, our finances seem to be somehow worse after the Premier league than before. We spent around £2 million on Norwood and £4 million on Egan before and seemed to be able to be competitive. I just don’t understand - and there is a good chance I’m just being a fuckwit but my confusion is genuine. Is it the signings in the prem that fucked us over financially (again, not a sly dig at Wilder)? That’s all I can fathom. Please help the financially incapable cos I don’t comprehend!
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Wilder threatened to.walk unless he was allowed to buy his targets
That meant.spending all the prem money including parachute money
 
Bottom line: the board think we’re good enough to go up without any further significant investment. Last season we almost managed it, and that was despite horrendous luck with injuries. In their eyes, with several of those injured players returning, and with PH, SM and JL given a full season at it, we’ll be good enough to go up.
Hecky, it would seem, disagrees with this, and he’s publicly stated that he wants 6 or 7 players in.
The board will win out, obviously.
I suspect we’ll make one or two uninspiring signings and a couple of loans. I also suspect we’ll sell Berge at a loss before the season starts.
 
Jimmy F said:
West Brom owners have ambition, ours don’t
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Having ambition and achieving success as a result of that ambition are two entirely different propositions .

In my lifetime starting with Sunderland in the 1950’s , there have been innumerable examples of the one not leading to the other , sometimes in the most spectacular fashion .

Dirty Leeds under Risdale is a prime example and let no one forget the experience of our less fortunate brethren from across the city . When Chansiri came in, his stated ambition was to get the Grunters back into the PL asap and backed this up by spending what at the time , were very large sums of money in fees and wages on the likes of Rhodes , Forest Fairy , Bannan etc .

Naturally , I’m bitterly disappointed that this didn’t quite work out as planned :D , but is yet another good example of how the concept that ambition = success is one which should be approached with great caution.
 
Wealthier clubs get their first choice of players, players that have true potential and belong in the division the buying club is playing in, they then pay them the salary required.

They then sell them for a profit.

We get those players that are left behind when all other clubs have done their business.

This puts us in the driving seat regarding minimal wages to pick up players that more often than not belong in the division below

The hope then is that the motivatational type manager can work miracles and get the ramshackle bunch playing above their potential.

It works, very occasionally for a limited period of time.

But more often than not it doesn't and we are left with players we can't give away let alone sell.

Any player that does show some potential can't get away quickly enough, meaning we have to practically give them away.

The whole thing is bland, boring and unimaginative and not really interesting to major sponsorship potential.

And that is why we never have any money, no matter what the scenario, we are always behind most of the other teams in whichever division we are playing in.
 
Balti Pie said:
Bottom line: the board think we’re good enough to go up without any further significant investment. Last season we almost managed it, and that was despite horrendous luck with injuries. In their eyes, with several of those injured players returning, and with PH, SM and JL given a full season at it, we’ll be good enough to go up.
Hecky, it would seem, disagrees with this, and he’s publicly stated that he wants 6 or 7 players in.
The board will win out, obviously.
I suspect we’ll make one or two uninspiring signings and a couple of loans. I also suspect we’ll sell Berge at a loss before the season starts.
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I don’t think that the Owner/Board aren't particularly bothered about promotion, more being self sufficient and avoiding relegation, until the club can be sold.
 
Quite simple really we invested very little in the club apart from tarting up the south stand. All the money was invested in players to keep us in the Prem, those investments in players largely haven't worked. Wilder did what he said he wouldn't do and put the club at risk. Blame the Prince if you want for letting CW have a free reign but what we really need on the clubs board is a football man who understands finance too, something I don't think we have had since Derek Dooley passed. Two seasons of Prem money plus parachute payments and we have very little to show for it the core of the squad is what got us into the Prem but now sadly four years older and ageing fast.
 
Carlton Blade said:
We spend all our income. Our owner doesn't have an income stream to generate funds to add more
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I do have sympathy with the frustration of our fanbase. Our parsimony over our clubs history is only matched by its relative lack of success.
 

Carlton Blade said:
We spend all our income. Our owner doesn't have an income stream to generate funds to add more
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We literally cannot afford to improve an ageing squad. The board hope we are capable of mounting a challenge next year, despite not being good enough this past season, with the squad now another year older and our best player returning from his loan.
 
dellasthunderbolt said:
Let me first preface this by clarifying that I am genuinely asking the questions in this post. It is not a dig at the board or at Wilder for his signings or whatever. I am also a simpleton when it comes to finances So all queries are genuine.

It is just something that I have always nodded along with and pretended to understand but must now admit to not understanding at all: I why are we not rich after two seasons in the Prem? In my mind we are told about the top league being a money pit (ie the play off final being the £100 million pound game) but we seem absolutely fucked financially post-prem. so I thought is this the same for all teams and it doesn’t seem to be - West Brom seem quite capable of spending money whereas we appear broke. Even last time we got relegated was followed by a couple of years of (largely badly spent) wealth- Hendrie, Sharp, Henderson, Cotterill, Speed etc brought in) but this is clealry not the case this time. I’m fact, our finances seem to be somehow worse after the Premier league than before. We spent around £2 million on Norwood and £4 million on Egan before and seemed to be able to be competitive. I just don’t understand - and there is a good chance I’m just being a fuckwit but my confusion is genuine. Is it the signings in the prem that fucked us over financially (again, not a sly dig at Wilder)? That’s all I can fathom. Please help the financially incapable cos I don’t comprehend!
Click to expand...
Simply put, we overspent in the EPL. 20 million for a player, say, is not a flat 20 million outlay. You have wages (5-10 million over a 4 or 5 year contract), signing on fee for the player and agent fee (2-5 million).

The ground needed investment as did the training pitches, so that's a lot more than you'd think. Upscaling the club at home and abroad costs a fair whack as well.

We overspent on players due to the demands of the manager, a manager who would have kept going if he had his way and bankrupted us (what a Blade). At the same time we failed to invest in the infrastructure.

The recruitment was so bad that we don't have the saleable asserts other teams have. We also had a number of players on high wages not actively contributing but still on the wage bill.

The owner has little of his own free money so we took out loans against the TV money. Those loans have interest. Due to COVID we took an unexpected hit on both TV money and gates. Other clubs have rich owners or investors who can meet shortfalls. We don't.

We'll be paying off the EPL wages until all those players have left. I doubt we'll have much in the way of a transfer kitty until then and that will be back to pre promotion days, but less. Worth remembering that the only reason we spent so much, for us, in the Championship was because we had two chairmen who were vying for power.

The combination of signing Brewster for so much over his value and getting relegated fucked us.we are overspent and trying to claw it back. We must has dropped well north of 20 million with the loans last season and the Slav pay-offs as well in a desperate attempt to go straight back up.
 
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Frank the tank said:
Wilder threatened to.walk unless he was allowed to buy his targets
That meant.spending all the prem money including parachute money
Click to expand...
robbiez666 said:
Simply put, we overspent in the EPL. 20 million for a player, say, is not a flat 20 million outlay. You have wages (5-10 million over a 4 or 5 year contract), signing on fee for the player and agent fee (2-5 million).

The ground needed investment as did the training pitches, so that's a lot more than you'd think. Upscaling the club at home and abroad costs a fair whack as well.

We overspent on players due to the demands of the manager, a manager who would have kept going if he had his way and bankrupted us (what a Blade). At the same time we failed to invest in the infrastructure.

The recruitment was so bad that we don't have the saleable asserts other teams have. We also had a number of players on high wages not actively contributing but still on the wage bill.

The owner has little of his own free money so we took out loans against the TV money. Those loans have interest. Due to COVID we took an unexpected hit on both TV money and gates. Other clubs have rich owners or investors who can meet shortfalls. We don't.

We'll be paying off the EPL wages until all those players have left. I doubt we'll have much in the way of a transfer kitty until then and that will be back to pre promotion days, but less. Worth remembering that the only reason we spent so much, for us, in the Championship was because we had two chairmen who were vying for power.
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Biggest load of tripe ever written on here.
 
Carlton Blade said:
We spend all our income. Our owner doesn't have an income stream to generate funds to add more
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We have shown 2 lots of profit 2 years running? Don’t say we spent our income as we clearly didn’t.
 
As the owner has taken all the money for the club. It’s his club to do with as he wishes and this was his wish.
 
Bladezz said:
We have shown 2 lots of profit 2 years running? Don’t say we spent our income as we clearly didn’t.
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We have minimal capital reserves to try and cover the growing shortfalls between income and expenditure. The club is being run as a ling term concern, much like Newcastle was. Just with a less wealthy owner.
 

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