Tommy Doyle joins on season long loan

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The word is that we can meet City's fee, and we can meet Doyle's wage demands, matching his current deal in terms of basic wage.

The sticking point is the relegation wage reduction, of around 40%. He's, understandably, unwilling to agree to that, and we're unwilling to complete any deals without it.

For this reason, a loan is the only viable option.

Agree with the club on this. I’d rather we don’t make the same mistakes as last time, where were gambling on the next 10 years on a couple of players.
 

The word is that we can meet City's fee, and we can meet Doyle's wage demands, matching his current deal in terms of basic wage.

The sticking point is the relegation wage reduction, of around 40%. He's, understandably, unwilling to agree to that, and we're unwilling to complete any deals without it.

For this reason, a loan is the only viable option.
With all due respect to Tommy, what makes him special? It's all speculation obviously, but unpacking this bit of speculation.... if his mates were all going to get a wage cut for going down, he'd have to as well. Or be sold.

I'd imagine all the teams interested in him, that finished bottom half last season, would also insist on a relegation wage cut. That's life.

If he's truly been on £40k a week at City for being a youth player, he shouldn't be worrying anyway (in my personal poor man's opinion)!
 
With all due respect to Tommy, what makes him special? It's all speculation obviously, but unpacking this bit of speculation.... if his mates were all going to get a wage cut for going down, he'd have to as well. Or be sold.

I'd imagine all the teams interested in him, that finished bottom half last season, would also insist on a relegation wage cut. That's life.

If he's truly been on £40k a week at City for being a youth player, he shouldn't be worrying anyway (in my personal poor man's opinion)!

I don’t think it’s that he wants to be different from everyone else. It’s just that he could get offers from other places where either there’s no relegation clause (a few other teams) or the risk of relegation is low/zero (e.g. staying at City). In that case, he’s entitled to turn down a move that could halve his wages within twelve months.

I would expect a release clause to be a better bet.
 
I don’t think it’s that he wants to be different from everyone else. It’s just that he could get offers from other places where either there’s no relegation clause (a few other teams) or the risk of relegation is low/zero (e.g. staying at City). In that case, he’s entitled to turn down a move that could halve his wages within twelve months.

I would expect a release clause to be a better bet.
Yep 👍 I understand. I was just responding to/discussing the alleged sticking point in offering him a contract.

It'd most likely be both. Wages reduction and a release clause.
 
With all due respect to Tommy, what makes him special? It's all speculation obviously, but unpacking this bit of speculation.... if his mates were all going to get a wage cut for going down, he'd have to as well. Or be sold.

I'd imagine all the teams interested in him, that finished bottom half last season, would also insist on a relegation wage cut. That's life.

If he's truly been on £40k a week at City for being a youth player, he shouldn't be worrying anyway (in my personal poor man's opinion)!

There's nothing "special" about him, but it's very unlikely he will want to voluntarily agree to such clause, when his city contract obviously doesn't include such conditions. As bullish as he may be about our chances of survival, a good agent or supportive family member would probably dissuade him from taking such a risk.

You might be right about other teams, you might not. The only other club I've heard linked with Doyle are Wolves: I have no idea of their policy regarding wage reduction clauses, however, we didn't insist during our last PL stint, and Wolves are far more established in the league than we are/we're, so them offering normal contracts without wage reductions is perfectly plausible.

I doubt he's worrying, I imagine he's financially stable and well prepared, but that's not the point. Put it this way, I wouldn't agree to such terms if I was in his shoes, and I'm a blade.
 
There's nothing "special" about him, but it's very unlikely he will want to voluntarily agree to such clause, when his city contract obviously doesn't include such conditions. As bullish as he may be about our chances of survival, a good agent or supportive family member would probably dissuade him from taking such a risk.

You might be right about other teams, you might not. The only other club I've heard linked with Doyle are Wolves: I have no idea of their policy regarding wage reduction clauses, however, we didn't insist during our last PL stint, and Wolves are far more established in the league than we are/we're, so them offering normal contracts without wage reductions is perfectly plausible.

I doubt he's worrying, I imagine he's financially stable and well prepared, but that's not the point. Put it this way, I wouldn't agree to such terms if I was in his shoes, and I'm a blade.
Yep but at the moment I think Wolves will be fighting relegation, they maybe less likely to go down than us but not a lot less
 
There's nothing "special" about him, but it's very unlikely he will want to voluntarily agree to such clause, when his city contract obviously doesn't include such conditions. As bullish as he may be about our chances of survival, a good agent or supportive family member would probably dissuade him from taking such a risk.

You might be right about other teams, you might not. The only other club I've heard linked with Doyle are Wolves: I have no idea of their policy regarding wage reduction clauses, however, we didn't insist during our last PL stint, and Wolves are far more established in the league than we are/we're, so them offering normal contracts without wage reductions is perfectly plausible.

I doubt he's worrying, I imagine he's financially stable and well prepared, but that's not the point. Put it this way, I wouldn't agree to such terms if I was in his shoes, and I'm a blade.
We did insist on it, didn't we?

Clubs will insist on it in 2023 (unless they're very stupid), because relegation is a financial cliff edge.

Doyle can play for City u23s until his contract runs out, or he can get into the workplace with the common man and face occasional wage drops!

I get it, from all angles, I'm just playing devil's advocate a bit.

Maybe he's terrified for his financial future... But I THINK he'll be okay!
 
Our model was yesterdays sustainable route. With what the Saudis are doing to the game financially there might not be a sustainable club in the PL in 2 years time. £269m + £600m wages per yer, who can compete with that without relying on government funds or breaking every ffp rule going?
when 33 yr old Jordan Henderson is offered £700k a week by a league that averages 10,000 attendances, then there is something wrong I agree

they obviously dont do FFP, and i think this is taking us back to a super league, where the top teams will step away from FFP, and basically become a dick swinging competition for the worlds richest.

meanwhile in-country competitions will continue without them, with FFP and personally i think this could be for the better

ok, we lose the global pull of a Man U, Man C, Chelsea etc

but the division then becomes competitive, where instead of fearing relegation, we would be hoping for Europe with a top 6 finish

put a salary cap in place, the top teams will hoover up the best of course, but they will start and end their careers in the revised EPL, and in a division where anyone can beat anyone, upsets and dama will ensue.
 
Yep but at the moment I think Wolves will be fighting relegation, they maybe less likely to go down than us but not a lot less

I completely agree with you, but our thoughts on their chances may not be reflected in their contract clauses.

Plenty of their players were given contracts when wolves were a top-half club, chasing European football, so such terms may have been overlooked.
 
Our model was yesterdays sustainable route. With what the Saudis are doing to the game financially there might not be a sustainable club in the PL in 2 years time. £269m + £600m wages per yer, who can compete with that without relying on government funds or breaking every ffp rule going?

If (insert PL club) sold (insert best player) to (insert Saudi club) for (insert obscene money) then the PL club suddenly becomes extremely sustainable
 
We did insist on it, didn't we?

Clubs will insist on it in 2023 (unless they're very stupid), because relegation is a financial cliff edge.

Doyle can play for City u23s until his contract runs out, or he can get into the workplace with the common man and face occasional wage drops!

I get it, from all angles, I'm just playing devil's advocate a bit.

Maybe he's terrified for his financial future... But I THINK he'll be okay!

We didn't insist, which is reflected in our accounts.

And clubs may insist on it now, but I wouldn't be so sure. Forgoing such a clause makes you more attractive to prospective signings. I would guess it isn't standard practice at a club such as LCFC, and when their accounts for this coming season are released, we'll get an idea of to what extent they protected themselves, if at all.

I understand you're playing devil's advocate, but Doyle rotting in their U23s is not the only option, it wouldn't suit him or Man City. I expect the most likely scenario is he goes out again on loan, or finds a team prepared to forgo the clause.

I doubt he's terrified of his financial future, and I agree he should be ok. However, like the vast majority of working people, he will probably want to be paid what he's worth, and not take a potential pay cut unless he feels he has to - which he doesn't.
 
There's nothing "special" about him, but it's very unlikely he will want to voluntarily agree to such clause, when his city contract obviously doesn't include such conditions. As bullish as he may be about our chances of survival, a good agent or supportive family member would probably dissuade him from taking such a risk.

You might be right about other teams, you might not. The only other club I've heard linked with Doyle are Wolves: I have no idea of their policy regarding wage reduction clauses, however, we didn't insist during our last PL stint, and Wolves are far more established in the league than we are/we're, so them offering normal contracts without wage reductions is perfectly plausible.

I doubt he's worrying, I imagine he's financially stable and well prepared, but that's not the point. Put it this way, I wouldn't agree to such terms if I was in his shoes, and I'm a blade.
There's ways and means though. Firstly, Doyle's City contract will almost certainly have a relegation reduction clause in but the chances of it being activated are vanishingly small so it can be safely ignored.

If we're serious about trying to bring him in there's ways around the reduction clause: putting a relegation release clause in to let him stay in the top flight for a reasonable if we do go down; putting a promotion bonus equivalent to the "lost" wages or giving him a share of any future transfer fee. If both sides want the transfer to happen it probably will.
 
when 33 yr old Jordan Henderson is offered £700k a week by a league that averages 10,000 attendances, then there is something wrong I agree

they obviously dont do FFP, and i think this is taking us back to a super league, where the top teams will step away from FFP, and basically become a dick swinging competition for the worlds richest.

meanwhile in-country competitions will continue without them, with FFP and personally i think this could be for the better

ok, we lose the global pull of a Man U, Man C, Chelsea etc

but the division then becomes competitive, where instead of fearing relegation, we would be hoping for Europe with a top 6 finish

put a salary cap in place, the top teams will hoover up the best of course, but they will start and end their careers in the revised EPL, and in a division where anyone can beat anyone, upsets and dama will ensue.
Totally agreed with this, the European league idea and a Gulf States League and MLS just to throw them as the Americans never want to shy away from "World sport", would dominate however that separation would make the Premiership more competitive providing the "right" teams are bumped into the European League (money talks). The Premiership would be a better version of the already competitive Championship.
 
How much is Doyle actually on at the moment? Some sites (I know can't be trusted) are saying he is on £10k a week. If the sticking point is relegation clause as long as we aren't offering a contract that would see him be here longer than we are receiving parachute payments what really is the problem of not having a relegation clause. Worst case contract expires and he leaves on a free after 3 years.
 

There's ways and means though. Firstly, Doyle's City contract will almost certainly have a relegation reduction clause in but the chances of it being activated are vanishingly small so it can be safely ignored.

If we're serious about trying to bring him in there's ways around the reduction clause: putting a relegation release clause in to let him stay in the top flight for a reasonable if we do go down; putting a promotion bonus equivalent to the "lost" wages or giving him a share of any future transfer fee. If both sides want the transfer to happen it probably will.

I agree, there's probably creative ways to work a deal out, no doubt that's not an impossible scenario. There are faults with just about any proposal though, if you look hard enough.

The relegation release clause is an option, but then again, the club probably, hypothetically thought they could buffer the pain of the last relegation by selling prized assets such as Brewster, Berge and O'Connell, and for a variety of reasons we've been stuck paying all 3 for the last two seasons. Similar holes could probably picked in your other proposed options I expect.

All this to say, that I think the most likely scenario is we sign Doyle on loan, or look for a cheaper option elsewhere.
 
How much is Doyle actually on at the moment? Some sites (I know can't be trusted) are saying he is on £10k a week. If the sticking point is relegation clause as long as we aren't offering a contract that would see him be here longer than we are receiving parachute payments what really is the problem of not having a relegation clause. Worst case contract expires and he leaves on a free after 3 years.

The figure I've heard banded about is £40k, not a clue if that's true. I know for a fact that young city players who never got close to the first team were on sums similar or even more, so ~£40k wouldn't surprise me.
 
The figure I've heard banded about is £40k, not a clue if that's true. I know for a fact that young city players who never got close to the first team were on sums similar or even more, so ~£40k wouldn't surprise me.
Can see that be a sticking point to be fair if that is true. Could cause a problem squad balance wise
 
Can see that be a sticking point to be fair if that is true. Could cause a problem squad balance wise

Darren Smith implied it was doable financially, but I agree there could be wider implications from the squad balance perspective you mention.
 
would love tommy doyle back at the lane but not at a cost of 20m thats too high for a start and we wont be paying that if another club i.e. wolves or leicester are prepared to pay that for him we move on to our next target personally i think city might accept in the region of 12m for him with possibly a buy back clause the other way out regarding his salary and wage cut if were relegated is as another poster has said put a low fee release clause in the deal
 
would love tommy doyle back at the lane but not at a cost of 20m thats too high for a start and we wont be paying that if another club i.e. wolves or leicester are prepared to pay that for him we move on to our next target personally i think city might accept in the region of 12m for him with possibly a buy back clause the other way out regarding his salary and wage cut if were relegated is as another poster has said put a low fee release clause in the deal
commas ;)
 
I completely agree with you, but our thoughts on their chances may not be reflected in their contract clauses.

Plenty of their players were given contracts when wolves were a top-half club, chasing European football, so such terms may have been overlooked.
But isn't this why they have become a selling club now
 
would love tommy doyle back at the lane but not at a cost of 20m thats too high for a start and we wont be paying that if another club i.e. wolves or leicester are prepared to pay that for him we move on to our next target personally i think city might accept in the region of 12m for him with possibly a buy back clause the other way out regarding his salary and wage cut if were relegated is as another poster has said put a low fee release clause in the deal
If we could get Doyle for less than £15m that would be good business,
When you see that Rice went for £105m and Chelsea are wanting £40m for Conor Gallagher
 
But isn't this why they have become a selling club now

I think their apparent policy change in regards to transfers is due to Fosun, their owners, experiencing financial difficulties.
 

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