I reckon we’d have got pasted next season in the Prem

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HackeyBlade said:
They won the Premiership so they're the most successful team that have played in the Championship in the last 20 years
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They're an established premier league team that have spent more than half of this century in that league.
 

Roygbiv said:
Obviously we will never know but the Wilder promotion team was far better than the one we have now. We'd be starting from a much weaker position.


I'm personally not bothered in the slightest about being in The Premier League in our current state. I think next season would be about banking the money and being Norwich. Long term it would have been good for the club but short term I think it would have been complete misery
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I'd have been happy to go up, blood youngsters into the first team squad, see who could do a job and build for the next Championship campaign to go back up stronger a year later.
 
Roygbiv said:
Obviously we will never know but the Wilder promotion team was far better than the one we have now. We'd be starting from a much weaker position.


I'm personally not bothered in the slightest about being in The Premier League in our current state. I think next season would be about banking the money and being Norwich. Long term it would have been good for the club but short term I think it would have been complete misery
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With that team I just get this lingering “what if” feeling.

I can’t help but feel had the pandemic not hit, we’d have qualified for Europe and then who knows where we might be now.

I’m not saying we’d have been one of the top sides in the Prem but I genuinely believe we could’ve been a side who could more than hold our own in the top flight whilst flirting with the top half of the table.

I suppose we’ll never know now.😢
 
Booker4 said:
Failure is relative though isn't it. We've had how many F.A cup semi finals and play off final days out at - ok we've lost them all, but that's still a lot more than some clubs of a similar size have experienced. Many of the similar sized clubs have had more success than us in my time such as Stoke and Derby but at the same time they're not exactly having the time of their lives now, look at Wednesday also for a club that's really struggled for over 20 years.

Leeds who are a big club, don't like saying it but it's true, they've had a terrible 21st century on the whole, we've done better than Leeds too in that time and beaten them to promotion twice! So it may be failure in comparison to many clubs but others would swap our last 20 years for theirs, I'm sure of that.
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How many clubs of a similar size to United have had better fortunes though? Won FA Cups/been to finals/played in Europe? Aren’t United the biggest (on some measure anyway) club to have never played in Europe?
 
ReeceofBDTBL said:
Doesn’t change that the big thing for me was to finally see us win the play offs, win a big match and finally get our day in the sun.

In my lifetime Uniteds had 9 play off campaigns and 6 cup semi finals. Not won a single one. Not to mention the last day joy against Chelsea and Wigan.

Could be a good thing to build a proper foundation next season and get promoted, and I’m sorry for being negative but I’m just so sick of waiting for that big win. Heroic failures are scant consolation

UTB
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Before the home leg against Forest we were having the same discussion.

We were saying this team is no where near as good as the Wilder team.
(When the Wilder team were promoted the pundits all predicted relegation but I felt very confident we'd easily stay up finishing mid table).
We've had so many injuries this season that we would be starting from fresh with no team momentum.
Even with optimism we were saying it's guaranteed we would be relegated....would all depend on the Summer signings.

So we asked the question would winning the play-offs this season be a positive or a negative?
Obviously the money is massive and it might be a missed opportunity if we fail this season
but ideally we all said (doing a Bournmouth) having a 2nd season in the Championship would probably be the best preparation.
 
Oh the dream of being YoYo club...What a dream that would be.
 
stringer said:
How many clubs of a similar size to United have had better fortunes though? Won FA Cups/been to finals/played in Europe? Aren’t United the biggest (on some measure anyway) club to have never played in Europe?
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Probably Stringer, but we would have qualified in the past on many occasions but European competition didn't exist or it didn't exist as much as it did now. We finished 6th in 1976 I think and today that would have earned a place in the Europa League or the Europa Conference League had it been today, not so sure what you get for 6th these days!
 
Booker4 said:
Probably Stringer, but we would have qualified in the past on many occasions but European competition didn't exist or it didn't exist as much as it did now. We finished 6th in 1976 I think and today that would have earned a place in the Europa League or the Europa Conference League had it been today, not so sure what you get for 6th these days!
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1975 not 1976
 
Who cares if we got battered most weeks, it’s about building a stack of money behind us, I would love to be a yo yo club for the next 10 years. Get some big money behind us and build for the future, new training ground for starters and with the money just keep building with young players, build the fanbase and become a top half prem club eventually years down the line. It’s not about us in the here and now it’s about future generations of Blades. Only an imbecile would not want us to go up into the best league in the world and would rather us stay in the Championship because we might get beat most weeks? We might get beat most weeks in the championship next season for all we know.
 
HarryHaslam said:
Who cares if we got battered most weeks, it’s about building a stack of money behind us, I would love to be a yo yo club for the next 10 years. Get some big money behind us and build for the future, new training ground for starters and with the money just keep building with young players, build the fanbase and become a top half prem club eventually years down the line. It’s not about us in the here and now it’s about future generations of Blades. Only an imbecile would not want us to go up into the best league in the world and would rather us stay in the Championship because we might get beat most weeks? We might get beat most weeks in the championship next season for all we know.
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I didnt say I didn’t want us to get promoted, but it does soften the blow. I think next season we’ve got a chance to both get promoted AND build a side with a much better chance of not only staying up but being competitive for years to come in the top flight.

We shouldn’t forget that we had an ageing team when we got promoted to the Prem, that ageing team peaking and hitting the wall so hard is one of the reasons for our brutal relegation season
 
Roygbiv said:
Obviously we will never know but the Wilder promotion team was far better than the one we have now. We'd be starting from a much weaker position.


I'm personally not bothered in the slightest about being in The Premier League in our current state. I think next season would be about banking the money and being Norwich. Long term it would have been good for the club but short term I think it would have been complete misery
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Interested why you think this Roy.

Had this team enjoyed the fitness record of that team I'd say they are pretty comparable.

I loved Duffy. Is he better than Berge?

Loved Didzy. Is he better than Gibbs-White? Plus we still had Didzy this season.

Main difference is O'Connell is also injured and there is no Lundstram who was a bit part player back then.

The current squad probably has more depth too.
 

I think you also have to factor in the psychological side of losing every week. 20/21 was miserable for the fans and probably worse for the players. Not a great way to introduce young kids to the first team, just going out and losing every week. From that point of view we are better in the Championship. We do need to recruit though and next season the championship is going to be a lot tougher I think.
 
Yewsman said:
I think you also have to factor in the psychological side of losing every week. 20/21 was miserable for the fans and probably worse for the players. Not a great way to introduce young kids to the first team, just going out and losing every week. From that point of view we are better in the Championship. We do need to recruit though and next season the championship is going to be a lot tougher I think.
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Next season tougher? For a start there’ll be no Fulham or equivalent.

Leeds or Burnley, whichever one comes down, will both experience a collapse of sorts (the hole left by Kalvin Phillips will be a huge problem that could take a while to solve).

If forest get promoted that’s them out of the way and I’m not convinced either Norwich or Watford will find it as easy as they have done in recent years. Norwich have lost buendia since they got promoted and are about to record a worse points total than we did in our relegation season.

Middlesbrough need a goal scorer and a keeper. Very difficult but crucial signings to get right.

West Brom might get their act together although they’ve still got a big rebuild on their hands

League is absolutely there for the taking next season if we can bring in some creativity
 
ReeceofBDTBL said:
Next season tougher? For a start there’ll be no Fulham or equivalent.

Leeds or Burnley, whichever one comes down, will both experience a collapse of sorts (the hole left by Kalvin Phillips will be a huge problem that could take a while to solve).

If forest get promoted that’s them out of the way and I’m not convinced either Norwich or Watford will find it as easy as they have done in recent years. Norwich have lost buendia since they got promoted and are about to record a worse points total than we did in our relegation season.

Middlesbrough need a goal scorer and a keeper. Very difficult but crucial signings to get right.

West Brom might get their act together although they’ve still got a big rebuild on their hands

League is absolutely there for the taking next season if we can bring in some creativity
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That's my take too. Lot of garbage coming down this season. Nothing that amazing coming up either, especially if it's Wycombe, which would be poetic with Derby going down.
 
Champagneblade said:
Interested why you think this Roy.

Had this team enjoyed the fitness record of that team I'd say they are pretty comparable.

I loved Duffy. Is he better than Berge?

Loved Didzy. Is he better than Gibbs-White? Plus we still had Didzy this season.

Main difference is O'Connell is also injured and there is no Lundstram who was a bit part player back then.

The current squad probably has more depth too.
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Mainly because the older players have peaked and the system was the main reason why we were successful.

In terms of the players though, Baldock, Stevens, Fleck and to a lesser extent Norwood, haven't got near the heights of 2018/19. JOC hasn't been available either. That's 5 massive players who were so important in our promotion season. I'm not knocking those players either, it's just a fact of life that players slowly wane or get stuck in a rut. The Wednesday squad that went down was pretty much the same as the one that got them in the play offs a few years earlier for instance.
 
Champagneblade said:
Interested why you think this Roy.

Had this team enjoyed the fitness record of that team I'd say they are pretty comparable.

I loved Duffy. Is he better than Berge?

Loved Didzy. Is he better than Gibbs-White? Plus we still had Didzy this season.

Main difference is O'Connell is also injured and there is no Lundstram who was a bit part player back then.

The current squad probably has more depth too.
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I don't really think there's any comparison to be honest. Almost all the players in the Wilder promotion side were better, even if it was the same player.

The standard of competition this year is significantly weaker.

Henderson > Wes
old Stevens > current Stevens/RND
old Baldock > current Baldock/toss up with Bogle
JOC > Robinson
old Egan = or better to current Egan
old Bash > current Bash
old Fleck > current Fleck
old Norwood > current Norwood
Duffy more effective than Berge. certainly had more impact and consistency.
old Sharp = current Sharp
MGW > Didsy

While the squad might have better players in it, doesn't mean it's strong. Madine was more effective than McBurnie. Clarke more than Brewster.

More importantly we had a fearlessness and momentum which we carried into the top flight. And a formation and style of playing no team had every encountered before. Most of the current team spent the last season in the top flight getting battered. That's going to have a mental impact if we went back up.

I suspect we might have been pushing that record again.
 
HarryHaslam said:
Who cares if we got battered most weeks, it’s about building a stack of money behind us, I would love to be a yo yo club for the next 10 years.
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There is no stack of money for a relegated club. There is no stack of money for a work-a-day Premier League ctub. Why do people think there ever is?
 
robbiez666 said:
I don't really think there's any comparison to be honest. Almost all the players in the Wilder promotion side were better, even if it was the same player.

The standard of competition this year is significantly weaker.

Henderson > Wes
old Stevens > current Stevens/RND
old Baldock > current Baldock/toss up with Bogle
JOC > Robinson
old Egan = or better to current Egan
old Bash > current Bash
old Fleck > current Fleck
old Norwood > current Norwood
Duffy more effective than Berge. certainly had more impact and consistency.
old Sharp = current Sharp
MGW > Didsy

While the squad might have better players in it, doesn't mean it's strong. Madine was more effective than McBurnie. Clarke more than Brewster.

More importantly we had a fearlessness and momentum which we carried into the top flight. And a formation and style of playing no team had every encountered before. Most of the current team spent the last season in the top flight getting battered. That's going to have a mental impact if we went back up.

I suspect we might have been pushing that record again.
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Nice response.

I do get your point. It does feel we are at that point of it being the last year for a number of these players. It seems we are not quite ready to say goodbye yet however as you say, the decline is already underway. The skill now is introducing the Brewster, N'Diaye, Bogle and adding others to make sure there is succession planning.

Perhaps the hope is that when it is time to say goodbye to Egan or Basham for instance, a Lopata or Gordon may have stepped up to make a straightforward transition.

It seldom happens so simply as some players stop growing but I can buy into the logic and recruitment will need to fill gaps where there are shortfalls. 85% Norwood still outstrips 100% Arblaster or Peck or Brunt right now, but you hope before he gets to 60% Norwood the competition is there at least.

This has been a great bunch of players. I really hope they can have one last hurrah together and roll back the years next year!
 
Champagneblade said:
Nice response.

I do get your point. It does feel we are at that point of it being the last year for a number of these players. It seems we are not quite ready to say goodbye yet however as you say, the decline is already underway. The skill now is introducing the Brewster, N'Diaye, Bogle and adding others to make sure there is succession planning.

Perhaps the hope is that when it is time to say goodbye to Egan or Basham for instance, a Lopata or Gordon may have stepped up to make a straightforward transition.

It seldom happens so simply as some players stop growing but I can buy into the logic and recruitment will need to fill gaps where there are shortfalls. 85% Norwood still outstrips 100% Arblaster or Peck or Brunt right now, but you hope before he gets to 60% Norwood the competition is there at least.

This has been a great bunch of players. I really hope they can have one last hurrah together and roll back the years next year!
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You're right in terms of the youth players but my concern is that they've almost all only had non-league loans. Jebbison has had league 1 and we saw the step-up there. Brunt is only benching for Notts County. Broadbent doing the same for Rochdale. Boyes, Lapota, Dewhurst and Neal all doing well but it's a huge step up. Some, like Brooks or Ndiaye don't need it. The hope is that a couple will be in the mix next season. We could really use them given the current state of the squad. Lots of contract expiries in 2023.
 
Champagneblade said:
Interested why you think this Roy.

Had this team enjoyed the fitness record of that team I'd say they are pretty comparable.

I loved Duffy. Is he better than Berge?

Loved Didzy. Is he better than Gibbs-White? Plus we still had Didzy this season.

Main difference is O'Connell is also injured and there is no Lundstram who was a bit part player back then.

The current squad probably has more depth too.
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The Wilder team had a far better goalkeeper with potential to get better and he did (sorry Wes and not sorry Rammers and Olsen).
The general approach was different. Wilder seemed to have a coherent plan of buying decent players to upgrade the team in key positions (Egan/Norwood etc). This year we have scattergunned the loan market. Buying players is probably better than loaning unless you get lucky, Wilder was bang on when he arrived about that and that is still the case. Pinning your hopes on loanees to get promotion is risky and only works where you get at least 2-3 very very good premier league youth players on loan. We got a load of journeymen and MGW on loan.
I think Wilders squad had more options in it (pace/target man/skill/formation changes etc), all of our players now are much of a muchness and we only have had a plan A this season (5-2-3). Only Berge and MGW offer anything different or unusual to open the door.
Playing Osborn also makes us a much much physically weaker side. He is so small that I think it affects the whole balance of the side. We have played him far too often this season and it was a crazy decision to renew his contract. I wasn't keen on the Bash contract renewal as well (bit like Leon's a while ago) I think we may have over-rewarded an old player who was beginning to creak - I accept I might get proved wrong on that though)
 
Champagneblade said:
Interested why you think this Roy.

Had this team enjoyed the fitness record of that team I'd say they are pretty comparable.

I loved Duffy. Is he better than Berge?

Loved Didzy. Is he better than Gibbs-White? Plus we still had Didzy this season.

Main difference is O'Connell is also injured and there is no Lundstram who was a bit part player back then.

The current squad probably has more depth too.
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Individual players were better this season

but the Wilder team was so well drilled....they had an almost telepathic understanding where everyone would be.
The Wilder team were also more high tempo and "up for it" every game.
The Wilder team had more belief and a much bigger winning instinct (known as momentum).
The Wilder team had a better defence and goalie.....we had spells where we never looked like conceding...so only 1 goal was required.

Agree though that ability wise/ quality wise this years team is better than Wilders.
 
The second season wilder premiership team were terrible and would have been beaten by the team that played on Tuesday evening.
 
robbiez666 said:
I don't really think there's any comparison to be honest. Almost all the players in the Wilder promotion side were better, even if it was the same player.

The standard of competition this year is significantly weaker.

Henderson > Wes
old Stevens > current Stevens/RND
old Baldock > current Baldock/toss up with Bogle
JOC > Robinson
old Egan = or better to current Egan
old Bash > current Bash
old Fleck > current Fleck
old Norwood > current Norwood
Duffy more effective than Berge. certainly had more impact and consistency.
old Sharp = current Sharp
MGW > Didsy

While the squad might have better players in it, doesn't mean it's strong. Madine was more effective than McBurnie. Clarke more than Brewster.

More importantly we had a fearlessness and momentum which we carried into the top flight. And a formation and style of playing no team had every encountered before. Most of the current team spent the last season in the top flight getting battered. That's going to have a mental impact if we went back up.

I suspect we might have been pushing that record again.
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Where is Old Norwood now and how do we sign him ?
 

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