Yeovil analysis

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Bergen Blade

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Having now seen the Yeovil game I think fans have been slightly too harsh on individuals. The team selection was ok, but I think Yeovil's style surprised us. It looked like me that our pre match pep talk consisted of things like "Yevoil are going to make it hard for us, defending deep, getting men behind the ball and slowing the pace of the game down. We have to remain patient, but in the end we'll have enough quality to beat them. Just keep passing it and eventually they'll open up. Remember, be patient."

Instead they came out of the blocks with all guns blazing, pressed us all over the pitch, denied us from playing and not only that, they had excellent movement going forward. When they went forward they managed to have a lot of passes going to players who were running forward. Sometimes they went direct and played it up to a back to goal forward, but then he'd often knock it back to a midfielder who had already started a strong run and he'd find space between behind our midfield. They had loads of players who sprinted into space and most of them looked like they had the confidence and ability to beat a man when on the ball. At times it looked like they had 12 men.


In contrast we were very rigid, and lacked movement before a pass. Most of our players were standing still and had their backs to their goal when they received a pass. While Yeovil looked fitter than us I think the reason why they looked quicker and more up for it was more connected to them succeding in dictating how the game was going to be like. We thought the key would be to remain patient, they showed no respect and were aggressive and positive, bombing forward with great enthusiasm.

When we get shocked by the opposition like we were we need to quickly realise what's happening and then try to make tweaks to change things. This was a game where some managers (like diCanio or Uwe Rössler) make substitutions after 20 minutes. Sometimes it helps to just do something, anything to change the pattern of the game. Wilson could have swapped Murphy and Blackwell; moved Murphy wide, Flynn inside and played 4-5-1/4-3-3. As it happened we improved slightly after 15-20 minutes, maybe why Wilson didn't do anything. It was only a temporary improvement though and even straight after the break we struggled to deal with them.


In terms of personell I think McMahon's lack of overlapping is a big worry if we're sticking with Blackman on the right. McMahon is most of the time a standing full back, refusing or unable to run with the ball (oh, how we miss Lowton's composure, runs and creativity), although his right foot is decent and some fans will be happy with his contribution. Kitson's general play is a worry when he is playing against defenders who are bigger, stronger and fitter than him. Flynn is a technically sound player whose reading of the game and work rate means he does well defensively. His attacking play sufffers on poor winter pitches though, and I'd like to see someone with more pace come in and run into channells and be more direct.


Murphy got a couple of crosses in when he switched to the left, and I'd like to see him get a run there. In general we need more players who can make runs into space before they receive the ball. Players like Blackman, Flynn, McDonald and McMahon just want to receive the ball and then see what they can do with it. I think the player who is best equipped to add off the ball movement is Elliott Whitehouse, and I hope we try to get him included. I don't want him to just take on Doyle's role at the moment, in fact the next player I would look for would be a big, physical central midfielder to give Doyle competition. I also think we should try someone else at left back.

Again, here's what I'd like to see tried:

Long
McMahon Maguire Higginbotham McFadzean
Blackman Whitehouse Doyle McDonald Murphy
Kitson
Subs: Coyne, Kennedy, Westlake, Flynn, Tønne, DeGirolamo, Ironside.

4-5-1, but with Doyle patrolling in front of the back four, the rest of the midfield could hopefully go forward more.
Young, eager bench.
 


Long
McMahon Maguire Higginbotham McFadzean
Blackman Whitehouse Doyle McDonald Murphy
Kitson
Subs: Coyne, Kennedy, Westlake, Flynn, Tønne, DeGirolamo, Ironside.

Or, the wildly successful play off final side, with worse players.
 
Long
McMahon Maguire Higginbotham McFadzean
Blackman Whitehouse Doyle McDonald Murphy
Kitson
Subs: Coyne, Kennedy, Westlake, Flynn, Tønne, DeGirolamo, Ironside.

Or, the wildly successful play off final side, with worse players.

Three players remain and you think it's the same side? It's a different formation (central midfield triangle inverted), it's got a very different player type at left back, very different (quicker) wide men and Whitehouse will hopefully be a bigger goal threat and offer more off the ball movement than Quinn.
 
Wilson could have swapped Murphy and Blackwell;

Funny that Bergs. I had Blackwell on my mind after the game as well.

Couldn't agree more with your reading of the game. We commented from the outset that they were actually here to take the game to us. Where we completely mis-read it was that we thought this would mean an open game with us scoring a few. Doh.
 
In terms of personell I think McMahon's lack of overlapping is a big worry if we're sticking with Blackman on the right. McMahon is most of the time a standing full back, refusing or unable to run with the ball (oh, how we miss Lowton's composure, runs and creativity), although his right foot is decent and some fans will be happy with his contribution.

I posted after the Coventry away game that McMahon's reluctance to get forward was a worry in terms of DW's preferred style of football. He (DW) spoke after we played Everton last season about his desire to get the full backs forward and overload the opposition in wide areas.

For all the criticism of Williams, he does get past his winger fairly regularly and LJF will also do that when he returns. On the right though we have a dilemma, do we go with Westlake who has looked good going forward at times (Carlisle away in particular) and gets in front of his winger a lot but is (so far) shaky at best defensively or McMahon who gets a nosebleed if he goes over the halfway line but is a more accomplished defender?

We also lack a pairing on the right side who have formed a good understanding. Even when Westlake has played there and given Blackman great options, Blackman has been reluctant to give him the ball. Lowton's great movement was nearly always rewarded by a good ball by Williamson last season.

At the moment, we're trying to get the ball to our wingers by passing (rather than lumping) the ball to them and are finding it difficult because (a) the opponents have fewer attacking players to worry about so can often double up on key players and (b) because our pitch makes passing along the floor almost impossible.

We also seem to struggle to put the ball in front of players for them to run on to when we break. Time after time we lose momentum because a player has to check their stride to get a ball played either straight to them or slightly behind them.
 
I posted after the Coventry away game that McMahon's reluctance to get forward was a worry in terms of DW's preferred style of football. He (DW) spoke after we played Everton last season about his desire to get the full backs forward and overload the opposition in wide areas.

For all the criticism of Williams, he does get past his winger fairly regularly and LJF will also do that when he returns. On the right though we have a dilemma, do we go with Westlake who has looked good going forward at times (Carlisle away in particular) and gets in front of his winger a lot but is (so far) shaky at best defensively or McMahon who gets a nosebleed if he goes over the halfway line but is a more accomplished defender?

We also lack a pairing on the right side who have formed a good understanding. Even when Westlake has played there and given Blackman great options, Blackman has been reluctant to give him the ball. Lowton's great movement was nearly always rewarded by a good ball by Williamson last season.

At the moment, we're trying to get the ball to our wingers by passing (rather than lumping) the ball to them and are finding it difficult because (a) the opponents have fewer attacking players to worry about so can often double up on key players and (b) because our pitch makes passing along the floor almost impossible.

We also seem to struggle to put the ball in front of players for them to run on to when we break. Time after time we lose momentum because a player has to check their stride to get a ball played either straight to them or slightly behind them.

I think McMahon is one of Wilson's absolute favourites, so I think the best we can do is encourage him to go forward more, or even work on his fitness to make him able to run up and down more often. I honestly don't know what Wilson's instructions are.

Last season's team was so good technically that they could carve teams open through neat passing - even though we lacked real pace and typical wingers. The current side isn't as skilful, but there is more pace and we do have players who can beat a man now. If we can make effective use of that we'll improve a lot. We have to look at our preparation and tactics though. The Yeovil game proved that it's not enough picking a decent (on paper) first eleven.
 
We also seem to struggle to put the ball in front of players for them to run on to when we break. Time after time we lose momentum because a player has to check their stride to get a ball played either straight to them or slightly behind them.


We don't even try to do this enough either. Going past players takes balls. Playing a cutting pass is hard. Penetrating the box is harder. Cutting back is much easier. Switching sides is easier.

Our play is just too patient and safe. The result is boring and of late, unsuccessful

UTB
 
Having now seen the Yeovil game I think fans have been slightly too harsh on individuals. The team selection was ok, but I think Yeovil's style surprised us. It looked like me that our pre match pep talk consisted of things like "Yevoil are going to make it hard for us, defending deep, getting men behind the ball and slowing the pace of the game down. We have to remain patient, but in the end we'll have enough quality to beat them. Just keep passing it and eventually they'll open up. Remember, be patient."

Instead they came out of the blocks with all guns blazing, pressed us all over the pitch, denied us from playing and not only that, they had excellent movement going forward. When they went forward they managed to have a lot of passes going to players who were running forward. Sometimes they went direct and played it up to a back to goal forward, but then he'd often knock it back to a midfielder who had already started a strong run and he'd find space between behind our midfield. They had loads of players who sprinted into space and most of them looked like they had the confidence and ability to beat a man when on the ball. At times it looked like they had 12 men.


In contrast we were very rigid, and lacked movement before a pass. Most of our players were standing still and had their backs to their goal when they received a pass. While Yeovil looked fitter than us I think the reason why they looked quicker and more up for it was more connected to them succeding in dictating how the game was going to be like. We thought the key would be to remain patient, they showed no respect and were aggressive and positive, bombing forward with great enthusiasm.

When we get shocked by the opposition like we were we need to quickly realise what's happening and then try to make tweaks to change things. This was a game where some managers (like diCanio or Uwe Rössler) make substitutions after 20 minutes. Sometimes it helps to just do something, anything to change the pattern of the game. Wilson could have swapped Murphy and Blackwell; moved Murphy wide, Flynn inside and played 4-5-1/4-3-3. As it happened we improved slightly after 15-20 minutes, maybe why Wilson didn't do anything. It was only a temporary improvement though and even straight after the break we struggled to deal with them.


In terms of personell I think McMahon's lack of overlapping is a big worry if we're sticking with Blackman on the right. McMahon is most of the time a standing full back, refusing or unable to run with the ball (oh, how we miss Lowton's composure, runs and creativity), although his right foot is decent and some fans will be happy with his contribution. Kitson's general play is a worry when he is playing against defenders who are bigger, stronger and fitter than him. Flynn is a technically sound player whose reading of the game and work rate means he does well defensively. His attacking play sufffers on poor winter pitches though, and I'd like to see someone with more pace come in and run into channells and be more direct.


Murphy got a couple of crosses in when he switched to the left, and I'd like to see him get a run there. In general we need more players who can make runs into space before they receive the ball. Players like Blackman, Flynn, McDonald and McMahon just want to receive the ball and then see what they can do with it. I think the player who is best equipped to add off the ball movement is Elliott Whitehouse, and I hope we try to get him included. I don't want him to just take on Doyle's role at the moment, in fact the next player I would look for would be a big, physical central midfielder to give Doyle competition. I also think we should try someone else at left back.

Again, here's what I'd like to see tried:

Long
McMahon Maguire Higginbotham McFadzean
Blackman Whitehouse Doyle McDonald Murphy
Kitson
Subs: Coyne, Kennedy, Westlake, Flynn, Tønne, DeGirolamo, Ironside.

4-5-1, but with Doyle patrolling in front of the back four, the rest of the midfield could hopefully go forward more. Young, eager bench.

I summary, yet again Wilson was totally out managed.
 
We don't even try to do this enough either. Going past players takes balls. Playing a cutting pass is hard. Penetrating the box is harder. Cutting back is much easier. Switching sides is easier.

I agree, and cutting back is easier when you play your left footed winger on the right wing, and vice versa. Am i missing something here or is it that obvious that we should switch Flynn and Blackman?????

The only logical explanation I can find is that Flynn would help Williams out more than Blackman ?
 
i just dont think Flynn's got the confidence to play at this level. its hardly surprising given he's built like a rake that people just knock him off the ball.

if we play 4-5-1 with Kitson up top on his own il stop going. we should be attacking everyone but we have no ideas whatsoever. its painful to watch us essentially just get a cross in every time.
 
What's all this talk about wingers we haven't got any wingers at the club so forget about getting the ball wide.
Blackman out wide left it's not working anymore opponents have done their homework get him back in a central roll.
Flynn can't go past players and he certainly can't cross a ball we are carrying him.
We need a front three start with Murphy,Kitson,Blackman keeping Kitson in a forward position stop him coming deep letting Murphy and Blackman playing off him,if Kitson is not performing let's get Ironside involved early.
Midfield is the key let's get it to feet and in the channels McDonald and Whitehouse can provide this Doyle is on borrowed time couple of games if he is still as bad as of late try Mcfazdene/Tonne/Philiskirk.
Higgingbottom,Kennedy,McGuire,Mcmanhon
Keep the faith with young Long
With the players we have got we have the tools to hurt teams playing it to feet and in the channels we have nobody who is effective wide and nobody available to sign within the budget
 
if we play 4-5-1 with Kitson up top on his own il stop going. we should be attacking everyone but we have no ideas whatsoever. its painful to watch us essentially just get a cross in every time.

Feel free to call it 4-3-3 if you want to. 4-5-1/4-3-3 can be an attacking formation, depending on how players move within the system.
 
You would think we were up against Real Madrid and Barca in the last two home games rather than Yeovil & Hartlepool with squads assembled at a quarter of the cost of our lot, at the end of the day you can't polish a turd. No good saying the pitch is a leveler and don't suit our style, if Yeovil are so good on our pitch why can't our lot do the same ? I don't for one minute think Yeovil and Hartlepool have better players than we do maybe they do have a better manager though. We seem to be having a lot of bad days at the office of late.
 
Having now seen the Yeovil game I think fans have been slightly too harsh on individuals. The team selection was ok, but I think Yeovil's style surprised us. It looked like me that our pre match pep talk consisted of things like "Yevoil are going to make it hard for us, defending deep, getting men behind the ball and slowing the pace of the game down. We have to remain patient, but in the end we'll have enough quality to beat them. Just keep passing it and eventually they'll open up. Remember, be patient."

I understand your point and largely agree, but the teams which have troubled us at home this season have been the waspish, positive teams. Oldham, Hartlepool and Yeovil, plus to a lesser extent Crewe and Bury.

Last season, teams did come to park Mourinho's bus and we did have to be patient. But this season they know we're not as good. Wilson has spoken about earning the right to play this year, but in the last few games we've done no such thing.

One other factor which has gone unmentioned as yet is the loss of Quinn. He sometimes used to irk me with his random wandering - it occasionally become indulgent - but at the moment we look so rigid that a player with that sort of movement would make a huge difference in us building attacks.

UTB.
 

Feel free to call it 4-3-3 if you want to. 4-5-1/4-3-3 can be an attacking formation, depending on how players move within the system.

Warnock used this system to good effect in '03. Chief up top with Tonge and Nuddy joining from the flanks, plus Brown centrally. 4-3-3 when we had the ball and 4-5-1 when we lost it.

I'm not at all averse to us using it now, especially since Blackman and Murphy look ideally suited.
 
I agree, and cutting back is easier when you play your left footed winger on the right wing, and vice versa. Am i missing something here or is it that obvious that we should switch Flynn and Blackman?????

The only logical explanation I can find is that Flynn would help Williams out more than Blackman ?

From an attacking point of view Blackman will be a bigger goal threat and find it more natural to cut inside and get shots in when he is on the right side. Flynn lacks the pace and dribbling ability to get past full backs on the outside, hence him prefering to play on the left to check back and cross it with his right. Full backs are more likely to allow him the space to do that as the resulting cross is usually less dangerous than the one from the byline.

When this happens again and again it becomes predictable and the opposition will deal with it. You then need overlapping full backs who are good at crossing to maintain a threat on the outside.
 
From an attacking point of view Blackman will be a bigger goal threat and find it more natural to cut inside and get shots in when he is on the right side. Flynn lacks the pace and dribbling ability to get past full backs on the outside, hence him prefering to play on the left to check back and cross it with his right. Full backs are more likely to allow him the space to do that as the resulting cross is usually less dangerous than the one from the byline.

When this happens again and again it becomes predictable and the opposition will deal with it. You then need overlapping full backs who are good at crossing to maintain a threat on the outside.

That's fair enough Bergen I understand what you're saying, but then by doing this we are extremely predictable ? Blackman has scored most of his goals from the penalty spot so the opposition are hardly fretting about his shots from outside the area. I therefore agree with your analysis earlier that, considering we have to work within the wage structures put upon us, we need a total rethink with what resources we have.

One thing that is disappointing me about the management team at the moment is our inability to change things, when they are going so obviously wrong on the pitch. Cresswell for Kitson will so obviously not change a thing, and we make our 3rd substitution in the 89th minute when we're 2-0 down - why ?? Don't we at least do that on 80 mins while we have a chance of getting something from the game ? or had they given up...........
 
That's fair enough Bergen I understand what you're saying, but then by doing this we are extremely predictable ? Blackman has scored most of his goals from the penalty spot so the opposition are hardly fretting about his shots from outside the area. I therefore agree with your analysis earlier that, considering we have to work within the wage structures put upon us, we need a total rethink with what resources we have.

One thing that is disappointing me about the management team at the moment is our inability to change things, when they are going so obviously wrong on the pitch. Cresswell for Kitson will so obviously not change a thing, and we make our 3rd substitution in the 89th minute when we're 2-0 down - why ?? Don't we at least do that on 80 mins while we have a chance of getting something from the game ? or had he given up...........

Yes, it can be very predictable. Blackman wants to cut inside and shoot. Flynn wants to check back and cross. They are helped by a right back who can cross but doesn't want to go forward, and a left back who goes forward, but can't cross.

I still expect promotion and actually think we have a good set of players, but we need tweaks to get more out of them at the minute.
 
Feel free to call it 4-3-3 if you want to. 4-5-1/4-3-3 can be an attacking formation, depending on how players move within the system.

i take your point, but i honestly think the players we have struggle with 4 4 2. considering the level theyre meant to be able to play at, our wing play is terrible, our full backs dont attack and i havent seen us dominate in the middle this season.

throw 5 into midfield and only one up top and i fear us getting congested with very, very little in terms of an outlet, much like a day in May last year...

i think Kitson is superb at all these flicks and clever touches, but thats no good if hes up there on his own, in my opinion. we need to get a central midfielder i think. Doyle and KMac are coasting because theres no pressure on their places. someone with some skill and touch (difficult in this league i know) would put some pressure on. from what iv seen this year, we have next to nothing in terms of creativity. its been painful to watch.

and to those who will call me a doomsdayer, yes i know we're 4th and getting results, but that isnt going to last if we dont start pulling teams apart.
 
Wilson, reflecting upon events against Gary Johnson’s side three days ago, told The Star: “Doing things differently is definitely something that we’re going to have to look at. That includes how we play and possibly, because of that, the personnel too.
“It might be time just to take the brakes off. Just to go all out.
“We have to make sure the pitch is our friend, not our enemy. The lads here like to play football but it’s difficult to control and pass the ball when the first thing it does is bounce up near your whatsits.”


Interesting line about going all out. For me, that would have to involve McMahon being left out. Difficult to see how else the line up could be more attacking than the one which played v Yeovil. Maybe he means in terms of the instructions to players and McMahon et al will be told they have to get forward more?
 
Interesting line about going all out. For me, that would have to involve McMahon being left out. Difficult to see how else the line up could be more attacking than the one which played v Yeovil. Maybe he means in terms of the instructions to players and McMahon et al will be told they have to get forward more?

Simple: when Collins is back we should moving to a 3-2-5 formation:

Long
Collins Maguire Higginbotham
Doyle McDonald
Flynn Ironside Blackman Kitson Murphy​
 
Blackman is not good enough as a centre forward ,he is good enough as a winger but he needs to look for the ball and demand it instead of tossing it off.
 
Interesting line about going all out. For me, that would have to involve McMahon being left out. Difficult to see how else the line up could be more attacking than the one which played v Yeovil. Maybe he means in terms of the instructions to players and McMahon et al will be told they have to get forward more?

A bit cryptic. Could he primarily mean that we need to be more direct and play with a higher tempo? After Saturday, it's good that he realises changes need to be made, although I don't think the pitch should be the only reason for it. We have different strengths now compared to last season's team and shouldn't be expected to play the same style as successfully.
 
4-4-2 has served us well up untill the last few weeks, I personnally would stick with the same formation, but with a few alterations.
long
mcmahon maguire higginbottom(c) mcfadzean
blackman whitehouse mcdonald murphy
kitson ironside

might raise a few eyebrows but the likes of doyle, flynn and williams have been poor in recent weeks(williams all season tbh).
 
A bit cryptic. Could he primarily mean that we need to be more direct and play with a higher tempo? After Saturday, it's good that he realises changes need to be made, although I don't think the pitch should be the only reason for it. We have different strengths now compared to last season's team and shouldn't be expected to play the same style as successfully.

We have three more away matches before we play at home again.
Our away form has been pretty good lately and our current team is better suited to playing away.
I think Wilson should (and probably will) stick with his tried and trusted formula for the away matches.
If we pick up good results all this talk of changing tactics and personnel will be long forgotten by 1st Feb.
I think the most Wilson will do is play more direct and tell the full-backs to push forward more.

We also have 16 more days of the transfer window before the Coventry home match, so who knows what players will still be available by then?
 
Maybe the club could save money by sacking Barlow, Morgan and any other coaching staff, then just let Danny come on here and read threads like this.
Pick out the best idea from the DIY football experts who flounce their knowledge so freely and with panache and hey presto! Promotion is soon! ;)
 
Maybe the club could save money by sacking Barlow, Morgan and any other coaching staff, then just let Danny come on here and read threads like this.
Pick out the best idea from the DIY football experts who flounce their knowledge so freely and with panache and hey presto! Promotion is soon! ;)

Bergen as manager and Micalijo in overall supremo role whereby he takes on the duties of the Chief Exec, the FD, the Marketing Manager and the Fan Liaison Officer - all for £40k p.a? It could work. ;)
 
Obviously we'd need to see Mic's timesheets on a regular basis.
 

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