With 5-3-2 not working any more, what would be your preferred formation with everyone fit?

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Ramsdale
Baldock Egan JOC Osborn
Berge Fleck/Lundstram (either or)
Bogle McG Burke
McB

4-2-3-1
 
Gavlar said:
I don't think 4-4-2 would work with our team either. Or any formation with these players in the top division but I'm not against trying it, but Wilder won't.
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TBH Gav, I had half an eye on next season mate!
 
Y'say 5-3-2 'not working any more'?

Glad people are agreeing, finally. Everyone's preferred lineup is 5-3-2, despite it being fundamentally at the heart of our fucking woefulness.

Anyway. From the players at the club, if fit


---------------------------------------------Verrips------------------------------------------------

------Baldock------------------Egan-----------------------O'Connell---------------Osborn-----

---------------------------------------------Basham-----------------------------------------------

-----------------Bogle-----------------------Berge------------------------Fleck------------------

------------------------------McGoldrick------------------Burke---------------------------------

Bench

Brewster
Lundstram
Bryan
Lowe
Stevens
Ramsdale

Key play in that is Berge and Basham in the centre who move up the pitch to make a 4-1-3-2 in attack then back into a 5-3-2 when defending. Because we haven't got a centrally advancing CDM (which Basham could easily play) we tend to go for the flanks instead of the centre.

pommpey
 
Wilder would not change the system as it would be an admission of his mistake.

He would be terrified of us doing well as the PlayStation managers suggest
 
pommpey said:
Y'say 5-3-2 'not working any more'?

Glad people are agreeing, finally. Everyone's preferred lineup is 5-3-2, despite it being fundamentally at the heart of our fucking woefulness.

Anyway. From the players at the club, if fit


---------------------------------------------Verrips------------------------------------------------

------Baldock------------------Egan-----------------------O'Connell---------------Osborn-----

---------------------------------------------Basham-----------------------------------------------

-----------------Bogle-----------------------Berge------------------------Fleck------------------

------------------------------McGoldrick------------------Burke---------------------------------

Bench

Brewster
Lundstram
Bryan
Lowe
Stevens
Ramsdale

Key play in that is Berge and Basham in the centre who move up the pitch to make a 4-1-3-2 in attack then back into a 5-3-2 when defending. Because we haven't got a centrally advancing CDM (which Basham could easily play) we tend to go for the flanks instead of the centre.

pommpey
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I like the line up, but why assume that Verrips is any good and / or better than Foderingham ?
 

Snowflake said:
I like the line up, but why assume that Verrips is any good and / or better than Foderingham ?
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Hey, c'mon. You act as though the last dozen matches with Ramsdale never happened.

I'd take Verrips because hey, what can go wrong other than he flaps at crosses, drops easy catches or spoons it up in the air.

If he's shit, then we try Fodders. If he's shit, Moore-o. If he's shit, I'll get me gloves.

pommpey
 
Would like to try a number 10 in either a 3412 (like our promotion seasons) or even in a more orthodox 4231.

-------------------------------------Ramsdale-----------------------------------
------Bogle-----------------Egan--------------------JOC-----------------RND--
-----------------------------Berge-----------------New Signing/Fleck----------
-------------Burke-----------------Didsy/New Signing-----------New Signing-
--------------------------------------McB/Brewster------------------------------

IMHO I think this combined with a more positive and confident outlook would absolutely demolish (or atleast be entertaining) in the champ. Just a job of keeping hold of Egan Berge and Didsy.
 
433 or 442 next season in the championship and 451 for the rest of this season ive had enough of this 5 at the back sketch
 
Surely if we had everyone (O'Connell) fit then 5-3-2 would work a lot better than it currently is doing.
 
Eels said:
Surely if we had everyone (O'Connell) fit then 5-3-2 would work a lot better than it currently is doing.
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it would in one way but teams have stopped our wing backs getting forward its too easy to play against im afraid
 
pommpey said:
Hey, c'mon. You act as though the last dozen matches with Ramsdale never happened.

I'd take Verrips because hey, what can go wrong other than he flaps at crosses, drops easy catches or spoons it up in the air.

If he's shit, then we try Fodders. If he's shit, Moore-o. If he's shit, I'll get me gloves.

pommpey
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If he is injured then he will be useless.If he is fit them why not on the bench.
We are missing a piece of the political jigsaw here
 
Our particular style of play relies on both left and right sided CBs being able to do two jobs. All this season our left side has been broken - both attacking and defensively so the whole system has gone to shit.
Opposition have done their homework - same as they did last season but we're easier to deal with now. They've sussed out our lack of attacking ideas - deal with the overload building on the right safe in the knowledge that it won't swiftly switch to the left as it did previously. That's about it 'cos all our creative play stemmed from that plan.
And they also know that over 90 minutes they'll most likely get a few opportunities to exploit our defensive weaknesses - primarily down the left flank and more worryingly just by putting in a decent cross.
It's not hard work to beat us any more.
But I don't think (and it would appear that Wilder and Knill don't either) that we've got the players in our squad to play anything other than three CBs. It's not the formation that's the problem it's the personnel. I wouldn't be confident in any pair of CBs currently at the club in the Championship never mind the Prem.
So, I suspect we'll carry on regardless in the hope that JOC returns and mends everything.
 
pommpey said:
Y'say 5-3-2 'not working any more'?

Glad people are agreeing, finally. Everyone's preferred lineup is 5-3-2, despite it being fundamentally at the heart of our fucking woefulness.

Anyway. From the players at the club, if fit


---------------------------------------------Verrips------------------------------------------------

------Baldock------------------Egan-----------------------O'Connell---------------Osborn-----

---------------------------------------------Basham-----------------------------------------------

-----------------Bogle-----------------------Berge------------------------Fleck------------------

------------------------------McGoldrick------------------Burke---------------------------------

Bench

Brewster
Lundstram
Bryan
Lowe
Stevens
Ramsdale

Key play in that is Berge and Basham in the centre who move up the pitch to make a 4-1-3-2 in attack then back into a 5-3-2 when defending. Because we haven't got a centrally advancing CDM (which Basham could easily play) we tend to go for the flanks instead of the centre.

pommpey
Click to expand...

Whilst I would have slightly different personnel in a couple of positions , I agree wholeheartedly with the 4-1-3-2 formation as being the way forward and it is something I have advocated for a long time .

This is a system which has been tried and tested across the whole of Europe by many teams and with great success in a lot of cases .

I’ve never been Gary Neville’s greatest fan but he said very early in the season that our system was one of the easiest to counter and subsequent events have proved him to be right . Even Wilder himself has admitted that , for it to be successful , every single player has to at the top of his game and giving 100% every match .

For a large portion of last season that was the case , resulting in our extraordinary and unexpected success but towards the back end of last season and for the whole of this disastrous one , it has been blatantly obvious that this is not sustainable in the long term and is clearly no longer the case .

That being so , surely logic dictates that rather than persisting with a methodology that require a group of relatively ordinary players to produce extraordinary performances week in and week out , a different one is required which makes allowances for their limitations . This is an approach which Sean Dyche has been successfully pursuing for a number of years without being described as a ‘tactical genius’ but with an end result which puts our feeble efforts this year to shame .
 
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Ok while we are in the fantasy land of seeing a change to formation and using the players we have...

. Rammers
Baldock Egan O'Connell Stevens
. Bash
. Bogle Berge Fleck
. McG
Moose

I have plenty of other formations I could have suggested and then realised it wont matter as we wont change formation ever .....
 
AWetFlannel said:
I wouldn't change our system because our players aren't suited to/good enough to play a back 4 at this level.

What you said is mental.
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If that's mental goodness knows what continuing with this disaster is 😂😂😂😂😂
 
Isaw Joeshaw said:
Whilst I would have slightly different personnel in a couple of positions , I agree wholeheartedly with the 4-1-3-2 formation as being the way forward and it is something I have advocated for a long time .

This is a system which has been tried and tested across the whole of Europe by many teams and with great success in a lot of cases .

I’ve never been Gary Neville’s greatest fan but he said very early in the season that our system was one of the easiest to counter and subsequent events have proved him to be right . Even Wilder himself has admitted that , for it to be successful , every single player has to at the top of his game and giving 100% every match .

For a large portion of last season that was the case , resulting in our extraordinary and unexpected success but towards the back end of last season and for the whole of this disastrous one , it has been blatantly obvious that this is not sustainable in the long term and is clearly no longer the case .

That being so , surely logic dictates that rather than persisting with a methodology that require a group of relatively ordinary players to produce extraordinary performances week in and week out , a different one is required which makes allowances for their limitations . This is an approach which Sean Dyche has been successfully pursuing for a number of years without being described as a ‘tactical genius’ but with an end result which puts our feeble efforts this year to shame .
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I mentioned 4-3-1-2 in November. I just think minus O'Connell you cut your losses and park 3-5-2 for a while.

That said, and one of the advantages of 4-3-1-2 is the player in the no 10 spot, and I'd say Neville is right because we have no no. 10.

When we got promoted, yes we had lots of wide play and you could argue shifting across can counteract but we also had a Duffy who probed centrally as well. If we got O'Connell back, I'd still be looking to move back to 3-4-1-2 rather than 3-5-2. This sentral role makes us less predictable. We have 3 avenues of attack whereas for a large portion of this season it has just been the right hand side.
 
AWetFlannel said:
I wouldn't change our system because our players aren't suited to/good enough to play a back 4 at this level.

What you said is mental.
Click to expand...

This idea that our players are not suited to or good enough to play in a back four , often espoused on this forum really puzzles me .

The reality is that it is far less demanding in a number of key areas than is the format we continue to persist with which has been so brutally exposed . For 3 at the back with wingbacks to be successful , it requires almost superhuman levels of ability , commitment and athleticism from the 5 players involved .

As one example take the case of George Baldock (when playing) who , as I have previously mentioned , is expected to perform like Colin Morris at one end of the pitch then sprint back 70 yards and become the reincarnation of Len Badger .

As another , think of the number of times John Egan has been badly exposed as a result of not having another central defender to back him up .

Neither of these scenarios occur with a well organised back four with a holding midfielder in front . The situations I’ve just described might just give a clue as to why our system has not been adopted by almost every football coach across the world and why they don’t hold the record for the worst start to a season in the history of the game.
 

Quite like the idea of a 4 2 3 1

Rambo
Baldock Egan JOC Stevens
Berge Basham
Bogle McG Burke
McB

Standard back 4, uncomplicated with 2 Centre halves just there to defend, less pressure on fullbacks and plays to Baldocks strength as a RB and negates his weakness going forward

2 pivots / holding players with Basham as destroyer / ball winner, job to win ball and give it to Berge

McG in a free role, with pace and trickery either side of him in Bogle and Burke playing as wingers

Either or up top, job just to hit the back of the net.
 
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