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bongleblade

bongleblade

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Lots of doomsayers on the group atm and in some respects rightly so, but if we look at it we are 2 games in so it’s early doors to be shitting it already.

However, saying that it does seem easy to forget this is the same team that took Man Utd to the sword, gave Chelsea a slapping and ran Liverpool down to the wire with a run on Europe... so What has changed so much that we are now being predicted for relegation this season?

Crowds? Keeper? Staleness? Figured out?

Be really intrigued to hear your views on this one Blades
 

bongleblade said:
Lots of doomsayers on the group atm and in some respects rightly so, but if we look at it we are 2 games in so it’s early doors to be shitting it already.

However, saying that it does seem easy to forget this is the same team that took Man Utd to the sword, gave Chelsea a slapping and ran Liverpool down to the wire with a run on Europe... so What has changed so much that we are now being predicted for relegation this season?

Crowds? Keeper? Staleness? Figured out?

Be really intrigued to hear your views on this one Blades
Click to expand...
We were predicted for relegation last season.

Difference is, we've played 2, lost 2 and because of Covid, people have too much time on their hands, can't go to the match, and are frustrated, so talk shite
 
1889 said:
Our latest run of results have been disappointing, but I think you might be a bit premature to suggest anything’s changed.

I think the team have earned that much credit, why don’t you repost this at Christmas, if it still applies 🤷🏻‍♂️
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more of a rhetorical question i was posing, i’d agree with all of what you said 👍
 
bongleblade said:
Lots of doomsayers on the group atm and in some respects rightly so, but if we look at it we are 2 games in so it’s early doors to be shitting it already.

However, saying that it does seem easy to forget this is the same team that took Man Utd to the sword, gave Chelsea a slapping and ran Liverpool down to the wire with a run on Europe... so What has changed so much that we are now being predicted for relegation this season?

Crowds? Keeper? Staleness? Figured out?

Be really intrigued to hear your views on this one Blades
Click to expand...

The truth is that nothing apart from our keeper has really changed. And that might be the problem. We have played pretty much the same players in the same system for a long time. Maybe people have figured us out? Maybe our players played above themselves last year?

Maybe and probably more likely, its too early to say.

The main problem is that we are not as tight in defense and the same in attack.

In the same two fixtures last season we got 4 points. This year we have zero. We only had 1 more goal last year, but have let in 3 more this time. If we are going to continue to score few, we need to be as mean at the back as we were last year or it could be a long season.

We probably need to wait til we have played 10 games to see where we are likely to finish.
 
I personally think the fans is the biggest factor. A team like ours needs that extra bit that the support gives.

This is evidenced by the results since fans weren't allowed in. The keeper situation can only account for the last three games, so that doesn't really stack up as a reason just yet.
 
Fatigue / mental tiredness could also be a factor due to how last season ended and the short close season due to Covid restrictions.
 
Fundamental change is that the same group
of players who took the PL by surprise have, seemingly, been told to play a different way. We’re not overlapping, we’re not pressing high and we’re resorting to hoof ball. Admittedly, we have f*cked both games inside 10 minutes but our style of play is not what took us to challenging for a CL spot. Many have commented on how Stevens, Fleck and others look out of sorts but I believe it’s because they are not being given permission to express themselves. Packing two ranks of 4 on the edge of the box is not how we kept a clean sheet last season. We got in teams faces and competed. Don’t know what has happened but it looks to me that CW has lost a bit of belief in what got us here in the first place. Tin hat, stab vest, suit of armour etc all donned but sorry, unless we deliver a full 90 minute contest against Leeds and get a result I’m very worried that this team will slide due to a lack of self belief.
 
I think we are starting out a bit cagey. Like we did last season. I’d like to see more self belief and confidence running through the side. I don’t understand why we seem to have abandoned the tactics that served us so well in the past 4 seasons. Maybe we haven’t? But I don’t see much of the overlapping centre halves and stuff.

It is only 2 games in though. And we shouldn’t draw too many conclusions on that. Wolves was always going to be tough. I thought we performed really well at Villa, despite being down to 10 men for most of it.

So I’m not concerned at the results. We just need a good win behind us to kick start the season.
 
I do think it is this:

1. Formation. It's time for a change. The upside of that is that it gives players the chance to reprofile their game and find different angles to attack, possess and defend. Organised teams like Wolves coped with us adequately at 3-5-2, even into the second half when we'd steadied ourselves and started to attack. The wingplay was capably blocked in and the pivot - our good friend Ollie Norwood - was easily pressed and dispossessed or forced into error. And can anyone say that the 3-5-2 played in the way it is with a flat midfield three, is doing anything to feed the front two? The downside is that the formation change is better introduced in pre-season and we seem to be sticking with the tried-and-tested (and now ailing) formation and do CWAK have anything up their sleeves to effectively change it and not put the fear of shit up the players? I do think we need to look at four at the back with either a diamond in front or even 4-3-2-1, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-3-2.

2. Fans. I don't really have to explain this although on balance, it is the same dead atmosphere for all 22 players out there.

3. Players. We are still playing a high percentage of players with us in L1 or the Championship. The stuff we've bought hasn't really blown a hole in the starting eleven and we are still resorted to utilising the old-school, who are not getting any younger. Players like O'Connell, Basham and Baldock have adequately made progress but it seems that the judgements of players like Egan comes into question playing at this level. Norwood isn't and won't be a 'picks himself', Lundstram needs to be shipped out, Fleck's credibility is now seriously in question and Sharp is simply past his best, with McGoldrick not far behind. But still Osborn sits out a half, we failed to play L Freeman, Mousett is simply a busted flush and McBurnie is clearly struggling to make his mark with some frankly appalling service. And yet we've rotated in and out with C Robinson and missed out on countless exciting transfer bids for one or another reason. Those we do bring in are mysterious signings from nowhere, and we fail to land decent talent like Watkins and Cash to name but two. I'm questioning what the backroom conversations are that eventually lead to the missing of transfer goals (is Brewster actually fucking coming, or not?) and then plumping for what seems to be a worrying stream of duds.

4. Goals and saves. We scored low last season, but had a keeper who kept the other end fairly goal free. This season we have let three in (plus five penalties) and have scored one goal from outfield play. This is - like it or not - fucking worrying. Yep - two games in, but it is a bad start no matter what oil you pour on the stormwater coming up. Next game is a game we can't afford not to score in, and can't afford to concede either and we have trouble with both. There are areas on the pitch from a casual observer we simply have to do better in. Short passing in the middle third, midfield advancing and playing a killer pass, shooting from anywhere beyond the six yard box, remaining focussed on stopping the cross and of course, crossing the fucking thing into the danger area. Our crosses are pisspoor. Corners frequently hit the first man, are lofted to the defender on the back post or are simply easily read and pumped clear. When Norwood finds the sweet spot - Egan against Wolves last season - the result is a goal. When it's in freeplay we faff endlessly trying to find the perfect opportunity to get the ball into the box, drawing the front two out on the area while the defenders get the cards out and have a swift round of poker on the penalty spot. We also fail to open up scoring opportunities from outside the box. Lundstram actually came to us from Oxford with a 'he can hit one' reputation. I haven't seen him do this, nor any of the midfield in fact. Get the defence second guessing, get the keeper off his feet and get the second ball saved on Sharp or McBurnie's feet.

Hopefully, this is a blip, albeit a lot earlier than we are used to.

pommpey
 
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pommpey said:
I do think it is this:

1. Formation. It's time for a change. The upside of that is that it gives players the chance to reprofile their game and find different angles to attack, possess and defend. Organised teams like Wolves coped with us adequately, even into the second half when we'd steadied ourselves and started to attack. The wingplay was capably blocked in and the pivot - our good friend Ollie Norwood - was easily pressed and dispossessed or forced into error. And can anyone say that the 3-5-2 played in the way it is with a flat midfield three, is doing anything to feed the front two? The downside is that the formation change is better introduced in pre-season and we seem to be sticking with the tried-and-tested (and now ailing) formation and do CWAK have anything up their sleeves to effectively change it and not put the fear of shit up the players? I do think we need to look at four at the back with either a diamond in front oreven 4-3-2-1, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-3-2.

2. Fans. I don't really have to explain this although on balance, it is the same dead atmosphere for all 22 players out there.

3. Players. We are still playing a high percentage of players with us in L1 or the Championship. The stuff we've bought hasn't really blown a hole in the starting eleven and we are still resorted to utilising the old-school, who are not getting any younger. Players like O'Connell, Basham and Baldock have adequately made progress but it seems that the judgements of players like Egan comes into question playing at this level. Norwood isn't and won't be a 'picks himself', Lundstram needs to be shipped out, Fleck's credibility is now seriously in question and Sharp is simply past his best, with McGoldrick not far behind. But still Osborn sits out a half, we failed to play L Freeman, Mousett is simply a busted flush and McBurnie is clearly struggling to make his mark with some frankly appalling service. And yet we've rotated in and out with C Robinson and missed out on countless exciting transfer bids for one or another reason. Those we do bring in are mysterious signings from nowhere, and we fail to land decent talent like Watkins and Cash to name but two. I'm questioning what the backroom conversations are that eventually lead to the missing of transfer goals (is Brewster actually fucking coming, or not?) and then plumping for what seems to be a worrying stream of duds.

4. Goals and saves. We scored low last season, but had a keeper who kept the other end fairly goal free. This season we have let three in (plus five penalties) and have scored one goal from outfield play. This is - like it or not - fucking worrying. Yep - two games in, but it is a bad start no matter what oil you pour on the stormwater coming up. Next game is a game we can't afford not to score in, and can't afford to concede either and we have trouble with both. There are areas on the pitch from a casual observer we simply have to do better in. Short passing in the middle third, midfield advancing and playing a killer pass, shooting from anywhere beyond the six yard box, remaining focussed on stopping the cross and of course, crossing the fucking thing into the danger area. Our crosses are pisspoor. Corners frequently hit the first man, are lofted to the defender on the back post or are simply easily read and pumped clear. When Norwood finds the sweet spot - Egan against Wolves last season - the result is a goal. When it's in freeplay we faff endlessly trying to find the perfect opportunity to get the ball into the box, drawing the front two out on the area while the defenders get the cards out and have a swift round of poker on the penalty spot. We also fail to open up scoring opportunities from outside the box. Lundstram actually came to us from Oxford with a 'he can hit one' reputation. I haven't seen him do this, nor any of the midfield in fact. Get the defence second guessing, get the keeper off his feet and get the second ball saved on Sharp or McBurnie's feet.

Hopefully, this is a blip, albeit a lot earlier than we are used to.

pommpey
Click to expand...

Good common sense post.
 
Truth in a lot of comments above but in addition I think the PL is a lot stronger this year, I think that CWAK realise that as well and I think they're passing on that a bit to us and presumably the players are picking up on it as well. We seem to be lacking a bit of belief and the ball seems like a hot potato to some of the players. Having said all that we have never started that well under CWAK and my confidence in his ability to work it out remains strong. Do wish we had a bit more dosh in the boardroom though, hugely irritating to lose out on players to rivals.
 
Keen Blade said:
No fucking points , no fucking goals and barely any fucking shots on target.
Five consecutive fucking defeats.
Shall I write you a fucking poem ?
John Cooper Clarke
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Nah. Just fund me a bedwetting pass, that I won't use. Maybe you can find a use for it?
 
A few things, beyond the COVID/crowd stuff which is hard to quantify, because it will affect every squad, albeit in different ways.

1. We were incredible at turning goals into points last season. I honestly don't think that is sustainable in the long term however. Much like how, two seasons ago, Norwich relied on a lot of late goals for their wins, it is disingenuous to call it 'lucky' that we got so many points from so few goals, but at the same time it's not something you can rely on season after season. So, very slim margins. This has a knock on effect at both ends of the pitch starting with...

2. Ramsdale for Henderson. I actually think this is a bigger downgrade than a lot of people are acknowledging, and I stress I am not basing this on his games for us so far. I saw him play last season and I just didn't see a player who convinced at this level. It wouldn't be such a big deal, but as discussed under point 1, a lot of our game relies on small margins - narrow wins and gritty draws. If you want to grind those out with any consistency, you need to rely on your 'keeper from time to time, and the one we have this season is simply not as good as the one last season.

3. Goals from players who were with the squad last season. I'm on record as saying that the early season form (particularly in front of goal) of Lundstram and Mousset stopped us ever really being in a relegation battle. In both cases, I think both players were playing above themselves - Lundstram hit a ridiculous run of form, and Mousset has never been as prolific as he gave the illusion of being last Autumn/Winter. On top of both players regressing to the mean in terms of overall form, we have other issues to contend with for both players. First and foremost, Mousset is injured, any issues with form/overall fitness/motivation notwithstanding. That obviously means no goals, no assists, none of the contributions he brought last season. As for Lundstram, he looks like he'd rather be anywhere else (and giving the responsibility of a penalty to a contract hold-out speaks volumes about where we are). Even if Lundstram signs, and rediscovers his old form, I think it would be unwise to expect the same level of contribution from him in front of goal, as to me last season's haul was a bit of a freak outlier. Take Lundstram and Mousset out of the team that played the first half of last season, and replace them with anyone else we had in that squad, and we would have been looking over our shoulder for an awful lot longer.

4. Budget. 'If you stand still, you go backwards' and all that. The problem is, we've had to spend a big chuck on a goalkeeper who will go straight into the first XI while still making it weaker than last season. This has compounded the effects of having to pay back a significant amount of TV money. Of all the teams in the Premier League, only ourselves and Leeds are without either multiple years of Premier League TV money or recent parachute payments. This puts us behind literally everybody else in terms of money to spend on players, and that's without getting to the teams owned by literal billionaires. The upshot of which is we've found it very difficult to recruit and we've started the season light in areas we would have been dying to improve - new forwards and probably midfield creativity. Most other teams have found it easier to (ostensibly) improve than we have, so therefore in terms of the division as a whole we have gone backwards. That being said, we can't say for definite at this stage which teams have actually improved and which have merely wasted a lot of money.

5. System and tactics. More than most teams in the division, I think our success relies on our formation and tactics. Our team lacks the match-winners present in a lot of other squads. The pros of the system we play are obvious - after all, they've got us from League One to the Premier League. Several players once plugged in to our system look better than they have anywhere else. However there are two big cons to such a system based approach. The first is that it's hard to just replace one player with another - some of the roles we play with are highly specialised. If the man coming in at RCB (for example) doesn't get the balance between attack and defence right, then that whole side can suffer. Similarly, the team is like a machine, and if one of the cogs isn't turning correctly, the whole thing can break down. Unlike most teams in the division we lack players with that bit of individual quality who can bail us out when the team is playing badly. How many times did we play badly and win last season? Not very many. The other con with rely on tactics so much is obvious, in that everyone is more used to it now. How this will play out we don't know yet, of course.

So in summary, one thing is for certain - we'll definitely all be killed.
 
Frustration. Playing in near empty stadiums is bad for the team, and the supporters. I blame Wider for creating the symmetry between players and fans. Removing half that equation hurts us more than it does any other team.
 
I think last season's achievements have meant that we are underwhelmed by the performances in the last few games. Nothing much has changed from last season. I don't see Ramsdale as a big step down from Henderson. The team did really well last season. Better than we expected. Getting to those highs again is a difficult job. But the squad is better. We have more realistic options except maybe up front which is being worked on. It's two games in and not a time for doom and gloom. Performances will come and so will the points. We may not get into the top half but if we put the work in and performances come we should be comfortable.
 
bongleblade said:
Lots of doomsayers on the group atm and in some respects rightly so, but if we look at it we are 2 games in so it’s early doors to be shitting it already.

However, saying that it does seem easy to forget this is the same team that took Man Utd to the sword, gave Chelsea a slapping and ran Liverpool down to the wire with a run on Europe... so What has changed so much that we are now being predicted for relegation this season?

Crowds? Keeper? Staleness? Figured out?

Be really intrigued to hear your views on this one Blades
Click to expand...
It’s shit because our team need us......and we can’t be there for em.
 
Ridgeway Blade said:
Just think, if this virus had happened in the Adkins era, we would have been stopped from attending from the stadium and everyone would have been delighted, probably even the players.
Click to expand...

We'd have been in genuine danger of going under
 

bongleblade said:
Lots of doomsayers on the group atm and in some respects rightly so, but if we look at it we are 2 games in so it’s early doors to be shitting it already.

However, saying that it does seem easy to forget this is the same team that took Man Utd to the sword, gave Chelsea a slapping and ran Liverpool down to the wire with a run on Europe... so What has changed so much that we are now being predicted for relegation this season?

Crowds? Keeper? Staleness? Figured out?

Be really intrigued to hear your views on this one Blades
Click to expand...

We’ve had poor starts and threads similar to this in 3 out of the last four seasons whilst under Wilder and he turned things around big time. Whilst nothing is certain in football, you’d think that fact would buy Wilder and the team a bit of breathing space to sort things out but even after one game some were throwing themselves onto their swords. I guess that’s just the way they are, anything downbeat to say and they come alive. It’s their prerogative though.

Bur are things that bad? People are adding the last 3 games of last season onto this one but we were in a different mindset then. We’d blew the chance of Europe and were going through the motions by the last two. This season, we got sucker punched within 6 minutes by a good Wolves team and never recovered but we did show some fight in the second half. Then we drew 1-1 at Burnley, forget penalties, they’re just a lottery, that was the results of 90 minutes of football and then we played most of Mondays game with 10 men, missed a pen and lost to their only decent shot on goal. All 3 games could have been so different, we’ve not been hammered like some teams have but right now it’s not going for us. Time will tell and we’ll know what’s in store soon enough but it’s far too early to say right now. But in support of the doom sayers, if we’d won our first 2 league games and the penalty shoot out, the glory sayers would be in full piss this league and onwards into Europe mode so we can’t win.
 
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