We don't 'owe' Wilder anything

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FMBlade1

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This probably won't go down well with some (or most), but then it's a forum not a popularity contest. It's just to add some balance. I imagine some will just read the title then dig in though I urge you to read on before you do;

Wilder has done very well working for SUFC. We took him from Northampton Town to give him the most significant job he has ever had with one of the best budgets in the league. Whilst it was true he may have/could have gone to Charlton, even if he had they were in a tricky position with their owners etc. so definitely dodged a bullet by not becoming their manager instead.

During his time here he has had two new contracts. Thoroughly deserved of course. And by coming here he has had the chance to create and take the opportunity to manage in the Premier League, which he surely would not have had by staying at Northampton or going to Charlton.

---

Now I totally understand the argument that we should not consider his position this season so we can bounce back up like Burnley, West Brom or as Norwich are currently doing.

Where things get a bit hazy imho is when people say things like 'We owe it to him to see out the season in the PL' or 'He deserves the chance to take us back up', or 'We shouldn't sack him no matter what'

I understand what people mean by that, but the consideration should be: Is him being our manager definitely in our best interests, or would an alternative be more viable?

It's not about Wilder, but about the club. Loyalty is of course an admirable quality but shouldn't entirely shape our direction. Southampton ditched Atkins after back to back promotions for example and that proved to be in their best interests.

Not for a moment am I saying that he should go at this current stage. He is the best person currently to see us through these difficult times. However we don't 'owe' him anything and can't let that affect our future direction.

Of course eternally grateful for the fantastic job he has done here, though that is not the same thing.

Onwards and upwards soon with a result tomorrow,

UTB!
 
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I think what most people mean is “Judge him for his work over five years, not three months”.

Yes and I can understand that, if it's a little better phrased like:

'Based on the evidence we have seen, he knows how to get a team out of the championship with the majority of these players so worth sticking with him to do so'

However the fact that we got promoted from League 1 back in 2016-17 has less and less relevance as time goes on to our current predicament. I've talked enough about formations/system but its a similar thing 'We've played that way for years'. Yes, that was against teams like AFC Wimbledon, it doesn't do us much good now!

And you can certainly 'judge' that he has been a success during his time here, but that in itself doesn't necessarily mean he's the right man to take us forward. I gave the Southampton example, of course it can cut both ways as Charlton found out when they ditched Curbishley and Stoke did when Pulis was dismissed.
 
This probably won't go down well with some (or most), but then it's a forum not a popularity contest. It's just to add some balance. I imagine some will just read the title then dig in though I urge you to read on before you do;

Wilder has done very well working for SUFC. We took him from Northampton Town to give him the most significant job he has ever had with one of the best budgets in the league. Whilst it was true he may have/could have gone to Charlton, even if he had they were in a tricky position with their owners etc. so definitely dodged a bullet by not becoming their manager instead.

During his time here he has had two new contracts. Thoroughly deserved of course. And by coming here he has had the chance to create and take the opportunity to manage in the Premier League, which he surely would not have had by staying at Northampton or going to Charlton.

---

Now I totally understand the argument that we should not consider his position this season so we can bounce back up like Burnley, West Brom or as Norwich are currently doing.

Where things get a bit hazy imho is when people say things like 'We owe it to him to see out the season in the PL' or 'He deserves the chance to take us back up', or 'We shouldn't sack him no matter what'

I understand what people mean by that, but the consideration should be: Is him being our manager definitely in our best interests, or would an alternative be more viable?

It's not about Wilder, but about the club. Loyalty is of course an admirable quality but shouldn't entirely shape our direction. Southampton ditched Atkins after back to back promotions for example and that proved to be in their best interests.

Not for a moment am I saying that he should go at this current stage. However we don't 'owe' him anything and can't let that affect our future direction.

Of course eternally grateful for the fantastic job he has done here, though that is not the same thing.

Onwards and upwards soon with a result tomorrow,

UTB!
Your absolutely correct about one thing

It hasn’t gone down well
 
This probably won't go down well with some (or most), but then it's a forum not a popularity contest. It's just to add some balance. I imagine some will just read the title then dig in though I urge you to read on before you do;

Wilder has done very well working for SUFC. We took him from Northampton Town to give him the most significant job he has ever had with one of the best budgets in the league. Whilst it was true he may have/could have gone to Charlton, even if he had they were in a tricky position with their owners etc. so definitely dodged a bullet by not becoming their manager instead.

During his time here he has had two new contracts. Thoroughly deserved of course. And by coming here he has had the chance to create and take the opportunity to manage in the Premier League, which he surely would not have had by staying at Northampton or going to Charlton.

---

Now I totally understand the argument that we should not consider his position this season so we can bounce back up like Burnley, West Brom or as Norwich are currently doing.

Where things get a bit hazy imho is when people say things like 'We owe it to him to see out the season in the PL' or 'He deserves the chance to take us back up', or 'We shouldn't sack him no matter what'

I understand what people mean by that, but the consideration should be: Is him being our manager definitely in our best interests, or would an alternative be more viable?

It's not about Wilder, but about the club. Loyalty is of course an admirable quality but shouldn't entirely shape our direction. Southampton ditched Atkins after back to back promotions for example and that proved to be in their best interests.

Not for a moment am I saying that he should go at this current stage. However we don't 'owe' him anything and can't let that affect our future direction.

Of course eternally grateful for the fantastic job he has done here, though that is not the same thing.

Onwards and upwards soon with a result tomorrow,

UTB!
I don't think it is loyalty. I think it's because he is the best person for the job. He is the best chance we have of staying up and if not the best chance we have of returning. That's my reasons also we would lose the best manager we have had in my time as a Blade (+50 years) and some other club would have the ride we have whilst we sink back to mid table Championship at best.
 
I don't think it is loyalty. I think it's because he is the best person for the job. He is the best chance we have of staying up and if not the best chance we have of returning. That's my reasons also we would lose the best manager we have had in my time as a Blade (+50 years) and some other club would have the ride we have whilst we sink back to mid table Championship at best.

That's fair enough, and I agree.

Perhaps I mis-interpret what people mean when they say what I mentioned above, and perhaps I'm being too particular with language games/phraseology though I do think some have those sentiments which I understand though disagree with for the reasons above.
 
Chris Wilder is doing a job which he's being (I assume given he's had several new contracts) handsomely remunerated for. He's been overperforming significantly until this season where he's underperforming. It is a job though. We (surely) owe him our thanks but that doesn't mean he's doing this out of the kindness of his heart.
 
Yes and I can understand that, if it's a little better phrased like:

'Based on the evidence we have seen, he knows how to get a team out of the championship with the majority of these players so worth sticking with him to do so'

However the fact that we got promoted from League 1 back in 2016-17 has less and less relevance as time goes on to our current predicament. I've talked enough about formations/system but its a similar thing 'We've played that way for years'. Yes, that was against teams like AFC Wimbledon, it doesn't do us much good now!

And you can certainly 'judge' that he has been a success during his time here, but that in itself doesn't necessarily mean he's the right man to take us forward. I gave the Southampton example, of course it can cut both ways as Charlton found out when they ditched Curbishley and Stoke did when Pulis was dismissed.

Why does getting promoted out of L1 have less relevence
We spent 6 years there employing countless managers that couldnt manage that, if we hadnt got out of L1 we couldnt have progressed to the PL. He then took us to the PL 2 promotions in the space of 3 years and also finishing 9th with the possibility up until the last few games of qualifying for European Football for the first time in the clubs history
As Ive said before on this forum who is better placed with the players we have should we get relegated getting us back to the PL than Wilder.
Wilder is a victim of his meteoric success here, do you think we would have sacked him if we hadnt got promoted to the PL and finished in and around the play offs for the last 2/3 seasons ?
 
I would keep wilder even if we went down - I don’t see anyone who’s do a better job.

however - there’s no getting away from the fact results do need to improve. We need to actually make a decent effort of staying in the division.

There’s really no excuse after we know what they players are capable of and can do - for going down with single digit points (which is what we are heading for atm). If warnock can get to 35+ points it’s inexcusable if we don’t at least get to 30.

we simply can’t keep losing every game - we need to see some thing more than a bit of effort - we need to see some quality and ability to impact games. That’s been lacking for months and the results have been shocking as a result.
 
Why does getting promoted out of L1 have less relevence
We spent 6 years there employing countless managers that couldnt manage that, if we hadnt got out of L1 we couldnt have progressed to the PL. He then took us to the PL 2 promotions in the space of 3 years and also finishing 9th with the possibility up until the last few games of qualifying for European Football for the first time in the clubs history
As Ive said before on this forum who is better placed with the players we have should we get relegated getting us back the the PL than Wilder.
Wilder is a victim of his meteoric success here, do you think we would have sacked him if we hadnt got promoted to the PL and finished in and around the play offs for the last 2/3 seasons ?

Getting out of league 1 was a fine achievement but let's not over-egg it. Wilson would have done it if not for April 20th 2012. The subsequent managers being crap in league 1 doesn't mean Wilder not being crap and getting promotion was absolutely amazing. For example what clubs are Weir, Clough and Atkins managing now?

However his success in league 1 is less relevant in deciding what we do now because we aren't in league 1....

'As Ive said before on this forum who is better placed with the players we have should we get relegated getting us back the the PL than Wilder.'

At the moment I entirely agree with that.
 
This probably won't go down well with some (or most), but then it's a forum not a popularity contest. It's just to add some balance. I imagine some will just read the title then dig in though I urge you to read on before you do;

Wilder has done very well working for SUFC. We took him from Northampton Town to give him the most significant job he has ever had with one of the best budgets in the league. Whilst it was true he may have/could have gone to Charlton, even if he had they were in a tricky position with their owners etc. so definitely dodged a bullet by not becoming their manager instead.

During his time here he has had two new contracts. Thoroughly deserved of course. And by coming here he has had the chance to create and take the opportunity to manage in the Premier League, which he surely would not have had by staying at Northampton or going to Charlton.

---

Now I totally understand the argument that we should not consider his position this season so we can bounce back up like Burnley, West Brom or as Norwich are currently doing.

Where things get a bit hazy imho is when people say things like 'We owe it to him to see out the season in the PL' or 'He deserves the chance to take us back up', or 'We shouldn't sack him no matter what'

I understand what people mean by that, but the consideration should be: Is him being our manager definitely in our best interests, or would an alternative be more viable?

It's not about Wilder, but about the club. Loyalty is of course an admirable quality but shouldn't entirely shape our direction. Southampton ditched Atkins after back to back promotions for example and that proved to be in their best interests.

Not for a moment am I saying that he should go at this current stage. He is the best person currently to see us through these difficult times. However we don't 'owe' him anything and can't let that affect our future direction.

Of course eternally grateful for the fantastic job he has done here, though that is not the same thing.

Onwards and upwards soon with a result tomorrow,

UTB!

Yet another pathetic attention-seeking post
 
Wilder is our best chance of getting back up within the next two seasons or so. We would be mad to sack him.

My biggest fear is he becomes disillusioned with the state of football as it is and walks away to have a complete break from the game for six months to a year.
 
Getting out of league 1 was a fine achievement but let's not over-egg it. Wilson would have done it if not for April 20th 2012. The subsequent managers being crap in league 1 doesn't mean Wilder not being crap and getting promotion was absolutely amazing. For example what clubs are Weir, Clough and Atkins managing now?

However his success in league 1 is less relevant in deciding what we do now because we aren't in league 1....

I never said getting us out of L1 was amazing I was just pointing out that numerous managers failed to do that
One of the reasons we are not in L1 is Wilder got us out of it. Then what he did was amazing in the following 3 seasons. If we had got out of L1 without Wilder we may never have appouinted him as manager, we could have struggled in the Championship and been back in L1. We will never know
What we do know is that Wilder got us to the PL with 2 promotions in 3 years without busting the bank as so many clubs have and failed
 

Being fair to wilder it wasn’t just getting us out of league one - it was doing it with great style and 100 points.

We’ll probably not have another season like that for decades (if at all).
 
Football is about passion. I'll never question if CW cares about our club, he has the genuine passion for us. Plus he's a fantastic manager. Job for life in my opinion.

If he resigns one day because a small amount of fans publicly question or criticise him... I'll never forgive those fans.
 
I think it’s less about ‘owing’ Chris wilder time, and more about trying to think longer term than just the last 10 games.

There’s a danger that we overreact (not talking about the bed wetting that has been going on this forum) and sack wilder because of a bad run of form, but end up doing longer term damage.

Being relegated is bad, but with the core of the squad kept together and with wilder at the helm, there’s a good chance we’d go back up.

I’d be less confident with pretty much anybody else (and certainly any realistic suggestions anyway - obviously you could say Pochettino would do a great job, well yes he might but we ain’t ever getting him)
 
Yet another pathetic attention-seeking post
How is it?

We’re bottom of the league with 1 point out of 30. If Burnley win, we’re 7 points from safety after 10 fucking games.

If CW is the “best option” and “nobody could do any better” I dread to think what any other manager could do to us, because it can’t get any fucking worse.
 
How is it?

We’re bottom of the league with 1 point out of 30. If Burnley win, we’re 7 points from safety after 10 fucking games.

If CW is the “best option” and “nobody could do any better” I dread to think what any other manager could do to us, because it can’t get any fucking worse.
Calm down.
 
Agreed, but it'd be understandable if he felt hugely disrespected.
Given the disrespect he and his family have received on social media, I am sure he has an appreciation of the need to ignore social media. Given he’s been in football all his life, and a Blade at that... am sure he is more pleased with the huge proportion of Blades who have faith in him.
 
How is it?

We’re bottom of the league with 1 point out of 30. If Burnley win, we’re 7 points from safety after 10 fucking games.

If CW is the “best option” and “nobody could do any better” I dread to think what any other manager could do to us, because it can’t get any fucking worse.
It's not a normal season is it. Our drop off came with no fans.

We don't even know how players mental health is/was in this insane year. If their families are safe/alive/suffering somehow. We don't know anything.

If we'd had full stadiums, I'm certain we would have got more points this season. They're often strange/tight defeats where we were just missing a spark or a push from the supporters.
 
Agreed, but it'd be understandable if he felt hugely disrespected.

There wasn't any disrespect in my OP.

I do think his 'Playstation manager' comment was a bit.... pathetic and oversensitive imho. People are going to talk, that's life and overall I'm sure he understands that.

Though now I'm probably hounding him by saying that he shouldn't have a job for life and that he should be questioned on a few things...
 
The best version of Wilder is one of the best opportunities to come back up. The snarling, attack-minded, suffer no fools, concede no ground version. The innovative, box teams in, pulsating, wave after wave of pressure version. That version hasn’t been seen for a while...
 
I'd wring his sweaty sock out and drink it. And chew any bits of matter floating therein.
Wilder is God!
 

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