The Sue Smith Hall of Footballing Ignorance

[Bannerman]

You know that Great Britain and the British Isles aren’t the same thing right? Ireland isn’t part of Great Britain but it is part of the British Isles. Like you say, that doesn’t make Irish people British as they don’t live in Britain, but they do live in the British Isles!
Consult Blade_in_Sydney’s excellent Venn diagram ;-)

They only live in the ' British Isles ' according to some British people. As I pointed out in a previous post naming something that you do not have possession of does not make the name correct, only in your view.

The Irish sea does not belong to the Irish and the English channel does not belong to England, the French refer to it as La Manche ( the sleeve ) and are amused by the English habit of naming things as though they own them.

Again, as pointed out previously Prince Charles had the good manners on his last official visit to Ireland to refer to " These Atlantic Isles ".

Carry on calling them the 'British Isles ' if you wish, but as friendly as the Irish are in general if you are ever over there it may be sensible to refrain from using the possesive adjective just in case you have the misfortune to be in the company of one of the rare less than friendly ones

 

[103SecondsOfMagic]

They only live in the ' British Isles ' according to some British people. As I pointed out in a previous post naming something that you do not have possession of does not make the name correct, only in your view.

The Irish sea does not belong to the Irish and the English channel does not belong to England, the French refer to it as La Manche ( the sleeve ) and are amused by the English habit of naming things as though they own them.

Again, as pointed out previously Prince Charles had the good manners on his last official visit to Ireland to refer to " These Atlantic Isles ".

Carry on calling them the 'British Isles ' if you wish, but as friendly as the Irish are in general if you are ever over there it may be sensible to refrain from using the possesive adjective just in case you have the misfortune to be in the company of one of the rare less than friendly ones

I take your point about names, someone mentioned Ayers Rock as an similar example. But then, who really owns anything to give it a ‘definitive’ name? It has to start somewhere.
Out of interest, how do Irish people refer to the isles of Great Britain and Ireland collectively?

 

[Bannerman]

I take your point about names, someone mentioned Ayers Rock as an similar example. But then, who really owns anything to give it a ‘definitive’ name? It has to start somewhere.
Out of interest, how do Irish people refer to the isles of Great Britain and Ireland collectively?

I mentioned Ayers rock in reply to Blade in Sydney as I felt he would appreciate the point about people rolling up and putting names on things that were in existence and known to the inhabitants before they arrived.

I agree about the idea of ownership, the Native Americans had no concept of people owning the land until Europeans arrived. To them the land was there before they existed and would continue to be there after they ceased to exist, so how can a transient mortal own it?

As for how the Irish refer to these islands collectively, they don't often do so in my experience. In the same way that Britain is a part of Europe but the British seldom refer to the connection. The Irish tend to refer to Ireland or Britain and usually if they're talking about somewhere or something in reference to this island they will use England, Scotland or Wales when referring to it. 'These islands' is an expression that I've heard on a rare occasion but ' British Isles ' from an Irish person is something I don't recall, at least not in conversations that I've been involved in. The expression is possessive, they don't accept that and why should they? On the other hand no one has ever made a big fuss about it to me either.

You can always tell someone is a Unionist if they refer to ' The Mainland ' meaning Britain, which is complete bollocks of course. Britain is an island in the same way that Ireland is, the only Mainland is continental Europe.

 

[Blade in Cordoba]

As for how the Irish refer to these islands collectively, they don't often do so in my experience. In the same way that Britain is a part of Europe but the British seldom refer to the connection. The Irish tend to refer to Ireland or Britain and usually if they're talking about somewhere or something in reference to this island they will use England, Scotland or Wales when referring to it. 'These islands' is an expression that I've heard on a rare occasion but ' British Isles ' from an Irish person is something I don't recall, at least not in conversations that I've been involved in. The expression is possessive, they don't accept that and why should they? On the other hand no one has ever made a big fuss about it to me either.

Good article addressing this very issue here:
https://www.thejournal.ie/is-ireland-british-isles-northern-ireland-europe-islands-1140112-Oct2013/

'These isles' seems like a workable compromise.

 

[Bannerman]

Good article addressing this very issue here:
https://www.thejournal.ie/is-ireland-british-isles-northern-ireland-europe-islands-1140112-Oct2013/

'These isles' seems like a workable compromise.

Thanks for that, it's an interesting article. As you say 'These Isles' seems both more accurate and also good manners as a description.

As pointed out, the two islands have never throughout history been grouped together as one entity. Great Britain contains three countries not four.
Even when united together in one Kingdom Ireland was always referred to separately.

 

[Blade in Cordoba]

The Sue Smith Hall of Footballing Ignorance is delighted to announce the opening of its new Danny Mills Wing.

 

[ChezVegasBlade]

As a postscript to the previous four pages, I think the Brexit football argument is now redundant as apart from adding to the Irish and Scottish contingent, we now have a French, a Dutch and a Bosnian in the squad.....