Stubbornness? Not the master tactician we thought he was?

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Going to get cruicified for questioning Chris of course - clearly not allowed

However - At the start of the league one season, Wilder knew something wasn't working. He had to change something, he couldn't just sit on it and carry on losing. 5 games in, he decided it needed to change at Gillingham.

We are now 9 games in, scored 4 goals and got one point against struggling Fulham - which was incredibly lucky due to the fact that it wasn't even a pen.

For how much longer is he going to keep this formation? For how much longer is he just gunna keep it as it is?

He signed the players we have, he only signed those players who can play in our current 3-5-2 formation. He should have signed players who we could play in case we needed to play more attacking, in case we needed to play with out and out wingers.

For how much longer are we going to keep this up?
 

You would think being in the PL it would give us more options but I feel like we have fewer options to change things than we did in League 1.
 
It's not the system that's the problem, it's the players signed to play in it. Wilders record at spending decent money is shocking. Only Berge looks remotely worth what we paid for him, and since he's been shoehorned into the side we don't look the same. We should have signed cover for JOC, and a creative midfielder, instead we spent over £20 million on a kid who isn't ready for the Premier league, and £8 million on a right back who's been seen less that Lord Lucan.
 
This system had us challenging for Europe 6 months ago, so it makes sense that we signed players to fit that system. It's easy, in hindsight, to say that was a mistake, but nobody was crying out for us to sign wingers in the summer.

No but we should have signed a 10 and I am fully aware he has tried it with Didsy.
 
This system had us challenging for Europe 6 months ago, so it makes sense that we signed players to fit that system. It's easy, in hindsight, to say that was a mistake, but nobody was crying out for us to sign wingers in the summer.
Couldn’t have plugged Dennis anymore! Genuinely thought we was going to adapt and move forward.
 
It's not the system that's the problem, it's the players signed to play in it. Wilders record at spending decent money is shocking. Only Berge looks remotely worth what we paid for him, and since he's been shoehorned into the side we don't look the same. We should have signed cover for JOC, and a creative midfielder, instead we spent over £20 million on a kid who isn't ready for the Premier league, and £8 million on a right back who's been seen less that Lord Lucan.
The kid who isn't ready for the Premier league played a slide rule pass to mcburnie who should have finished, if the Scottish reserve centre forward takes one of his two gilt edged chances we get a point, he takes them both we get all three... It isn't brewster.

On everything else BTW, we agree...
 
You say yourself he only signed players for our current formation. If he changes it now, logically wouldnt we stand less of a chance of improving?
that's what i mean about the tactician part - why did he not sign players who allowed us to change to a plan B? we rely on a 32 year old david mcgoldrick to be the person to unlock the defences - why didnt we sign john swift
 
CW doesnt have many options to change it. As I said on another thread, he prioritised finding cover for the existing system, rather than adding quality to IMPROVE the existing system or recruiting players to play a different way.

He is now in a pickle and having to do things like play the contract rebel (because he didnt add additional midfield options), play Lowe, who isnt good enough (because we didnt improve upon Stevens) play Stevens at LCB as he didnt prioritise quality cover for JOC, play an out of form McBurnie in a target man role because he didnt bring in a target-man type.

The mess of a transfer window is IMO a big reason why CW is in this pickle.
 
It isn't brewster.
lmfao. That's the one single thing he's actually done since he came in. anonymous for the first three games. "he was against the best teams in the league" regardless. he didn't even press or put himself about.
 
This system had us challenging for Europe 6 months ago, so it makes sense that we signed players to fit that system. It's easy, in hindsight, to say that was a mistake, but nobody was crying out for us to sign wingers in the summer.
our form had dropped massively when the season resumed... was a sign of things to come
 

Perspective.
A few seasons ago United were a mid-table Third Division side. They are now in the toughest league in the world, thanks to the brilliant managerial skills of Wilder. Teams in the Championship (and there's one over the road) have creased themselves financially trying to get into this league, a feat achieved by Wilder for a pickled egg and a plate of brains. But the man isn't a magician. He picked up rough diamonds and polished them to get this far, but at this level it's almost impossible to do that. Wilder's one weakness in my opinion is his adherence to British players; I understand why he does that but to survive at this level most teams need to use the foreign market. United need a network of scouts on the Continent so Wilder can say what he wants and the required players can be purchased. It is the only solution. Sacking Wilder is not the answer, and Wilkinson going to Elland Road would pale into insignificance by comparison. The problem isn't Wilder, it's simply that the club needs better players. The second season is always much more difficult than the first, and inevitably opponents learn how to play against a team. All managers get sussed, even the managers of the top clubs, but knowing how to beat City, Chelsea, Liverpool and co' is one thing, having the players good enough to do it is another. But I reiterate, sacking the best manager we've had in this city for half a century isn't the answer.
 
Perspective.
A few seasons ago United were a mid-table Third Division side. They are now in the toughest league in the world, thanks to the brilliant managerial skills of Wilder. Teams in the Championship (and there's one over the road) have creased themselves financially trying to get into this league, a feat achieved by Wilder for a pickled egg and a plate of brains. But the man isn't a magician. He picked up rough diamonds and polished them to get this far, but at this level it's almost impossible to do that. Wilder's one weakness in my opinion is his adherence to British players; I understand why he does that but to survive at this level most teams need to use the foreign market. United need a network of scouts on the Continent so Wilder can say what he wants and the required players can be purchased. It is the only solution. Sacking Wilder is not the answer, and Wilkinson going to Elland Road would pale into insignificance by comparison. The problem isn't Wilder, it's simply that the club needs better players. The second season is always much more difficult than the first, and inevitably opponents learn how to play against a team. All managers get sussed, even the managers of the top clubs, but knowing how to beat City, Chelsea, Liverpool and co' is one thing, having the players good enough to do it is another. But I reiterate, sacking the best manager we've had in this city for half a century isn't the answer.
relying on history ain't gunna keep us up chief
 
Perspective.
A few seasons ago United were a mid-table Third Division side. They are now in the toughest league in the world, thanks to the brilliant managerial skills of Wilder. Teams in the Championship (and there's one over the road) have creased themselves financially trying to get into this league, a feat achieved by Wilder for a pickled egg and a plate of brains. But the man isn't a magician. He picked up rough diamonds and polished them to get this far, but at this level it's almost impossible to do that. Wilder's one weakness in my opinion is his adherence to British players; I understand why he does that but to survive at this level most teams need to use the foreign market. United need a network of scouts on the Continent so Wilder can say what he wants and the required players can be purchased. It is the only solution. Sacking Wilder is not the answer, and Wilkinson going to Elland Road would pale into insignificance by comparison. The problem isn't Wilder, it's simply that the club needs better players. The second season is always much more difficult than the first, and inevitably opponents learn how to play against a team. All managers get sussed, even the managers of the top clubs, but knowing how to beat City, Chelsea, Liverpool and co' is one thing, having the players good enough to do it is another. But I reiterate, sacking the best manager we've had in this city for half a century isn't the answer.

I’d not change the manager if we were relegated. We buy young players with an eye on two years down the road. That’s the club’s strategy, and it’s a model that has to accept the possibility of short term failure.
 
that's what i mean about the tactician part - why did he not sign players who allowed us to change to a plan B? we rely on a 32 year old david mcgoldrick to be the person to unlock the defences - why didnt we sign john swift
Alot of players wouldn't be willing to come to a club to be a plan b with no resonable way of being in plan A.
 
This system had us challenging for Europe 6 months ago, so it makes sense that we signed players to fit that system. It's easy, in hindsight, to say that was a mistake, but nobody was crying out for us to sign wingers in the summer.
The last time i saw McBurnie play against us he was on the wing, and if memory serves he scored.
 
This system had us challenging for Europe 6 months ago, so it makes sense that we signed players to fit that system. It's easy, in hindsight, to say that was a mistake, but nobody was crying out for us to sign wingers in the summer.

As a manager, its your job to prepare for every scenario.
 
Going to get cruicified for questioning Chris of course - clearly not allowed

However - At the start of the league one season, Wilder knew something wasn't working. He had to change something, he couldn't just sit on it and carry on losing. 5 games in, he decided it needed to change at Gillingham.

We are now 9 games in, scored 4 goals and got one point against struggling Fulham - which was incredibly lucky due to the fact that it wasn't even a pen.

For how much longer is he going to keep this formation? For how much longer is he just gunna keep it as it is?

He signed the players we have, he only signed those players who can play in our current 3-5-2 formation. He should have signed players who we could play in case we needed to play more attacking, in case we needed to play with out and out wingers.

For how much longer are we going to keep this up

Where's the 3-5-2 ?,I am seeing 5-3-1-1
 
The same system is never going to work when we are forced to play Robinson/Ampadu with Lowe/Osborn in the same positions that we had JOC and Stevens absolutely flying in last season.
 
Surely then the answer is sign Hanson.

Shouldn't cost much from Wimbledon.
 
The kid who isn't ready for the Premier league played a slide rule pass to mcburnie who should have finished, if the Scottish reserve centre forward takes one of his two gilt edged chances we get a point, he takes them both we get all three... It isn't brewster.

On everything else BTW, we agree...

Funny how our strikers are expected to take all the chances they're offered in a game, which this season is not many, punctuated by long spells attempting to compete for aimless punts and shanked passes.

Whilst the other team miss a hat-full at the other end. But that seems to be forgotten when considering we might have got a draw. Instead it's all down to our forwards who are not able to, never have been, and never will be able to convert 1 chance in 2 like Kane or Salah.
 
Perspective.
A few seasons ago United were a mid-table Third Division side. They are now in the toughest league in the world, thanks to the brilliant managerial skills of Wilder. Teams in the Championship (and there's one over the road) have creased themselves financially trying to get into this league, a feat achieved by Wilder for a pickled egg and a plate of brains. But the man isn't a magician. He picked up rough diamonds and polished them to get this far, but at this level it's almost impossible to do that. Wilder's one weakness in my opinion is his adherence to British players; I understand why he does that but to survive at this level most teams need to use the foreign market. United need a network of scouts on the Continent so Wilder can say what he wants and the required players can be purchased. It is the only solution. Sacking Wilder is not the answer, and Wilkinson going to Elland Road would pale into insignificance by comparison. The problem isn't Wilder, it's simply that the club needs better players. The second season is always much more difficult than the first, and inevitably opponents learn how to play against a team. All managers get sussed, even the managers of the top clubs, but knowing how to beat City, Chelsea, Liverpool and co' is one thing, having the players good enough to do it is another. But I reiterate, sacking the best manager we've had in this city for half a century isn't the answer.
Have to say, very sensible post from the dark side. And that's from someone with a very low tolerance to S6 visitors.
 
CW doesnt have many options to change it. As I said on another thread, he prioritised finding cover for the existing system, rather than adding quality to IMPROVE the existing system or recruiting players to play a different way.

He is now in a pickle and having to do things like play the contract rebel (because he didnt add additional midfield options), play Lowe, who isnt good enough (because we didnt improve upon Stevens) play Stevens at LCB as he didnt prioritise quality cover for JOC, play an out of form McBurnie in a target man role because he didnt bring in a target-man type.

The mess of a transfer window is IMO a big reason why CW is in this pickle.
Wilder's mindset was demonstrated with his 1st substitution. Ampadu injured, chasing the game and he brought on Robinson. Negative and a waste. He could have gone straight to a 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2 and brought Brewster or Burke on. If this is his mindset, what signal does that send to the players ?
 
We've just had our "As good as it gets season"

In 40 - 50 years somebody else somewhere will get a team of non descript nobodies with zero creative ability to perform miles above themselves for a season or two.

Then the Grandchildren can have their 'As good as it gets season" as well

Marvellous innit
 

Going to get cruicified for questioning Chris of course - clearly not allowed

However - At the start of the league one season, Wilder knew something wasn't working. He had to change something, he couldn't just sit on it and carry on losing. 5 games in, he decided it needed to change at Gillingham.

We are now 9 games in, scored 4 goals and got one point against struggling Fulham - which was incredibly lucky due to the fact that it wasn't even a pen.

For how much longer is he going to keep this formation? For how much longer is he just gunna keep it as it is?

He signed the players we have, he only signed those players who can play in our current 3-5-2 formation. He should have signed players who we could play in case we needed to play more attacking, in case we needed to play with out and out wingers.

For how much longer are we going to keep this up?

In terms of formation, we're a bit boxed in really but I think there are tweaks he can make but I don't believe we can fundamentally change how we play.

I just can't see how we could play 4 at the back. I don't think our CBs are good enough or suit that style. Egan gets caught by long balls and doesn't have the pace. I don't think JOC would be good enough in a flat back 4, but certainly no one else we have is.

I would play two holding midfielders and push the wingbacks on. The main issue we've had this season is that opposition manager have pushed players on to the wingbacks and stopped them getting forward. They're our most dangerous weapons.

If you play Fleck and Norwood sitting and push Sander on a bit, as long as you have McGoldrick on (just behind McBurnie) then there's a good chance to link it all up.

--------------------Ramsdale
--------Basham-----Egan-----Ampadu
--------------Norwood---Fleck
Baldock---------------------------Stevens
--------------------Berge
-------------McGoldrick
--------------------------McBurnie

The problem for me is in midfield. I'm not convinced Norwood would be quick enough to cover. We're a player short, especially with Lunny.
 

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