Stadium expansion

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All the above is really interesting but I can’t see a single argument for why you’d do the Kop ahead of the South Stand.
  • The South Stand increases the overall capacity to a higher level.
  • The South Stand generates a higher price so higher revenues.
  • The Exec boxes further generates better revenues.
  • Doing the SS first means the Kop can be replanned as the club have previously made comments that they weren’t overly impressed with the McCabe era plans.
  • The additional capacity means no ST holders would be unable to attend while the Kop is developed.
  • It also improves the facilities for the players.
What am I missing as to why the Kop would be prioritised?
 

All the above is really interesting but I can’t see a single argument for why you’d do the Kop ahead of the South Stand.
  • The South Stand increases the overall capacity to a higher level.
  • The South Stand generates a higher price so higher revenues.
  • The Exec boxes further generates better revenues.
  • Doing the SS first means the Kop can be replanned as the club have previously made comments that they weren’t overly impressed with the McCabe era plans.
  • The additional capacity means no ST holders would be unable to attend while the Kop is developed.
  • It also improves the facilities for the players.
What am I missing as to why the Kop would be prioritised?
TV cameras & studio could be moved to the JSS in place of some of the corporate there so the view people get on Sky is much more impressive. Perhaps it's not big enough for that on second thoughts.
 
All the above is really interesting but I can’t see a single argument for why you’d do the Kop ahead of the South Stand.
  • The South Stand increases the overall capacity to a higher level.
  • The South Stand generates a higher price so higher revenues.
  • The Exec boxes further generates better revenues.
  • Doing the SS first means the Kop can be replanned as the club have previously made comments that they weren’t overly impressed with the McCabe era plans.
  • The additional capacity means no ST holders would be unable to attend while the Kop is developed.
  • It also improves the facilities for the players.
What am I missing as to why the Kop would be prioritised?

You haven't missed anything - some of our posters/fans don't want to see the reality of the situation and the scope that this type of change entails.

As has been posted before, and i'll use Liverpool as the prime example. Liverpools NEW stand was judged to have a ROI (Return on investment) of between 3 and 4 years, due to the extra corporate income and quality seats that give the better view of the ground. OK, so some want to turn their nose up at the prawn sandwich brigade, but United are desperately short of quality seats and corporate facilities that a city the size of Sheffield should be offering. Liverpools investment and success of the main stand has made them re-think the Anfield Road stand, and the new plans recently announced, has more seats and significantly, more corporate seats as well that generate a higher level of income. Whilst we could never achieve the standing of a big six club, our corporate facilities are way behind other clubs, so building a 2nd tier on South Stand is by far and away the best and easiest job to do NEXT. It's a no brainer in development terms, but ideally it needs to be funded with continued Premier League existence. For me this should be have been planned year 2 of Prem with a view to being constructed during year 3 with the joining of SS lower and new SS Upper during the close season. COVID-19 should, like a lot of other things, mean it is postponed by a minimum of 12 months. The building of SS Tier 2 can easily be done with zero loss of existing seats - with again Liverpool being the prime example of how to do it properly.

I am yet to hear/see/read a reasonable argument as to how we lose 10+K kop seats while a new stand is constructed - because that is actually what it needs. If we put an extra tier on SS first we at least have an extra 6K seats to offset what is lost while the kop is rebuilt. The kops present facilities are just pathetic.

What ever happens, we must do it properly - there are so many examples of how other clubs have done it properly where as all we've done in the past is..........do it cheap. It's time to move our club on to a different level.

UTB
 
All the above is really interesting but I can’t see a single argument for why you’d do the Kop ahead of the South Stand.
  • The South Stand increases the overall capacity to a higher level.
  • The South Stand generates a higher price so higher revenues.
  • The Exec boxes further generates better revenues.
  • Doing the SS first means the Kop can be replanned as the club have previously made comments that they weren’t overly impressed with the McCabe era plans.
  • The additional capacity means no ST holders would be unable to attend while the Kop is developed.
  • It also improves the facilities for the players.
What am I missing as to why the Kop would be prioritised?

I would like nothing more than the Kop to be replanned and a full rebuild that uses the vast amounts of potential space wasted underneath. I haven’t seen anything of late to suggest the Kop is going that way though, or that the club officials are revisiting it. The last conclusive piece of info was around the pillars coming out – I’ve no idea if that is easy to do without the changes to the structure proposed in the extension to it.

My suggestions above are on the basis the club wants to do that extension first. Perhaps if we’re thinking of a long-term plan aligned to what we think the club might be willing to do (and in what order) it would be:
– Kop asap, to quickly address existing capacity limitations
– South Stand within 3 years, assuming we continue to be a PL club
– Within 5 years, back to the Kop to completely rebuild
 
I would like nothing more than the Kop to be replanned and a full rebuild that uses the vast amounts of potential space wasted underneath. I haven’t seen anything of late to suggest the Kop is going that way though, or that the club officials are revisiting it. The last conclusive piece of info was around the pillars coming out – I’ve no idea if that is easy to do without the changes to the structure proposed in the extension to it.

My suggestions above are on the basis the club wants to do that extension first. Perhaps if we’re thinking of a long-term plan aligned to what we think the club might be willing to do (and in what order) it would be:
– Kop asap, to quickly address existing capacity limitations
– South Stand within 3 years, assuming we continue to be a PL club
– Within 5 years, back to the Kop to completely rebuild
But that the crux of my question. Why the Kop ASAP? Surely the South Stand trumps that in every possible criterion so should be done first?
I just don’t understand what brings the Kop to the front of the queue.
 
But that the crux of my question. Why the Kop ASAP? Surely the South Stand trumps that in every possible criterion so should be done first?
I just don’t understand what brings the Kop to the front of the queue.

Wouldn’t it be much quicker to do?
 
But why do it only to pull it down within a couple of years, giving us the problem of cost and relocating those increased ST holders. Is the assumption that it can be done with negligible cost?

Couldn’t the increased STHs go on the extra South Stand tier? My assumption in that is that the Kop extension in its current form would be a lot cheaper than the South Stand or a full rebuild. It’s completely an assumption – I’ve no idea what any of it would cost. But I’m assuming the club does, and that’s a contributing reason why the signs are that they are looking at the Kop first.

Were it cheaper and less disruptive to do the South Stand extra tier first we’d surely do it that way round...
 
We've sold out quite a few, even Bournemouth at home this season, which was on Sky.

Despite that, we have been at probably 98% capacity in the home stands every single game this season. There's a couple of reasons why it hasn't been more;

1. Ticket policy - Rightly the club have protected regular fans and given them first dibs on matchday tickets. On a number occasions this season, the club have left it way too close to the matchday to allow for non-members the chance to buy a ticket. We haven't been able to increase our fan base really as casual fans/newbies have had an incredibly limited opportunity to buy a ticket. We need to make it easy for people who aren't established fans to buy a ticket, so that some day, they too might become a ST holder.

2. Seating availability - It's rare that anything other than single seats remain available, especially in the nicer areas of the ground. If you can't go and sit with your mate, or family, you probably will give it a miss.

3. Growth - Tying the two points above together, you can only grow with increase capacity. If there's very limited opportunity to expand the fan base, it won't happen. The last time we were in the Premier League we capitalised on this. We were probably still seeing the benefits of this during the Adkins era - averaging 20k in League One. We barely managed that prior to our last promotion to the Premier League.
Spot on. Trying to get a couple of tickets for relatives over from America at Xmas is like trying to do the chuffing krypton factor! The pricing is also pathetic. Miles too high for our region. I get the “keep the away fans from trying to buy in our ends”, bit, we’re losing money with the current polic.
 
Surely the decision on which bit to do first depends on whether it can be done without the existing stand having to be closed.

Has anyone ever looked at improving the Bramall Lane end? The seats are, I believe, just bolted onto the old terracing, which has a very shallow rake and support poles. It also appears to get rained on a lot. Would it be possible to build a new stand up to the height of the upper tier and maybe extend the roof. Obviously, away fans would need to be moved somewhere else. I would love to see blade fans behind both goals. We could also actually use the seats in the upper tier which are currently sealed off.
 
What am I missing as to why the Kop would be prioritised?

All valid points....but the main reason for doing the Kop first is
  • it’s by far the worse stand in the stadium. The facilities are so bad...it’s embarrassing for the 21st century.
  • it’s really cheap upgrade offering the best value for money
  • current capacity is hardly effected....work can be done for months behind the Kop
 
What ever happens, we must do it properly - there are so many examples of how other clubs have done it properly where as all we've done in the past is..........do it cheap. It's time to move our club on to a different level.

UTB

Have you seen the plans?The current plans fulfil everything that a fan wants. So it would be a “do it properly” design and will bring us into the current century.
Thats like saying Liverpools latest stand wasn’t done properly because they didn’t build a new stand....Liverpool basically bolted on a new tier at the back.
I don’t understand why our fans want more executive facilities, conference and banquetting facilities in a 3rd area of the stadium.
I would expect that the club will have done research to know if there’s massive demand for more facilities.
....besides the new South stand doubles our executive , banqueting, conference facilities.

My view regards the Kop is that we need
a clear unobstructed view, fantastic spacious concourse areas all under cover, easy access and exit, better toilets and food outlets.
The current design offers virtually 3000 extra seats but the massive bonus is there’s almost no reduction in capacity.
Season ticket holders won’t need to be moved or forced to miss out.
Think people underestimate the hassle/ even outrage it will cause if people are told they can’t attend any home matches for 2 years.
Even if there was a raffle I would feel really angry and let down if I was forced to make this unnecesssary sacrifice when I’ve been a ST holder for years.
 
I don’t understand what they mean by “remove the posts.” Surely they mean remove the roof?
Those columns are there for a reason, to support the Kop roof.
But if they are replacing the roof, they’ve obviously got build it to the final spec for the proposed new Kop stand, which in itself will be a huge undertaking......Bit confused on this one.
 
I don't understand why we are putting funds into the stadium improvements at this time. IMO we need to invest in the team. Especially with the COVID impact. The cost of players will be lower than a normal year.
 
I don't understand why we are putting funds into the stadium improvements at this time. IMO we need to invest in the team. Especially with the COVID impact. The cost of players will be lower than a normal year.

To summarise.
  • You don't pay for large infrastructure work from the same pot as you buy players. The budgets shouldn't impact each other, unless you're taking out a huge loan with significant repayments which then impact your playing budget afterwards. That isn't being suggested, apart from a few who want to build a mini-Spurs or entirely knock down the Kop.
  • Interest rates are at an all time low and are highly likely to stay low for a sustained period of time. This proves a unique opportunity to do it at a lower overall impact to playing budgets.
  • The lack of fans also provides a unique opportunity to do this work without having to tell 10,000 season tickets holder they can't attend for a season, especially if this is delayed so you'll be likely to be telling them after a season where they couldn't attend every match anyway.
  • It increases our future revenues (if we do the South Stand) by having more boxes, which we're desperately short of, it also further lessens the impact on player budgets, as would having more fans attend.
  • It takes advantage of our current status, increases our profile and allows more of our fans to attend. Creating a better atmosphere, significantly higher revenues, and encouraging a new lot of fans who previously couldn't get tickets to attend and experience what makes our club so special at the moment. The affinity between fans and club.
 

don't pay for large infrastructure work from the same pot as you buy players. The budgets shouldn't impact each other, unless you're taking out a huge loan with significant repayments which then impact your playing budget afterwards. That isn't being suggested, apart from a few who want to build a mini-Spurs or entirely knock down the Kop

Point taken. I figured having an owner with limited funds it was infrastructure vs player investment.
 
Point taken. I figured having an owner with limited funds it was infrastructure vs player investment.
It quite possibly may be, but certainly my arguments would be to lend against the development costs and not affect the playing budget this year. I also wouldn’t do anything to the academy (Not training ground) at the moment. I also would't do anything which would reduce our budget in the summer as I believe that's critical.
This obviously raises concerns with some because we’re loading debt onto the club, which for me makes sense given the low interest rates, but it’s a valid point for discussion.
 
Last edited:
I don’t understand what they mean by “remove the posts.” Surely they mean remove the roof?
Those columns are there for a reason, to support the Kop roof.
We want doers, not procrastinators. Let's just remove the posts and if the roof falls in, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
I've never believed that they really did anything anyway.
 
We want doers, not procrastinators. Let's just remove the posts and if the roof falls in, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
I've never believed that they really did anything anyway.
Now I see why the club want to do it before the fans are allowed back!
 
Has anybody on here ever touched those posts, they might be inflatable?Thirty years of obscuring peoples views and all we had to do was let the buggers down.

They are hollow, I have been hiding in there since lockdown, and enjoyed the 5 'behind closed doors' games, through my 2mm glory holes.
Mind you I'm fucking starving, and it stinks in here.
 
We want doers, not procrastinators. Let's just remove the posts and if the roof falls in, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
I've never believed that they really did anything anyway.
Now I see why the club want to do it before the fans are allowed back!
They are hollow, I have been hiding in there since lockdown, and enjoyed the 5 'behind closed doors' games, through my 2mm glory holes.
Mind you I'm fucking starving, and it stinks in here.
And you're all wrong.
Them posts are there to prevent the terracing sliding into the car park.
 
We want doers, not procrastinators. Let's just remove the posts and if the roof falls in, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
I've never believed that they really did anything anyway.
When I was about 5, I dug a hole in the front garden to trap Father Christmas (don't ask). To disguise my cunning plot I, er, put the soil back in the hole and patted the top down with my little spade so that you couldn't tell there was a hole there, smug in the knowledge that.. "The old git won't know what's hit him when he steps in that..."

So, yeah, just take em down, it'll be reyt.... 🤣
 
We want doers, not procrastinators. Let's just remove the posts and if the roof falls in, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
I've never believed that they really did anything anyway.
Admit it, who hasn't been amazed when you've played Djenga and it didn't all topple down as soon as you expected?

I'm in 😆
 
To summarise.
  • You don't pay for large infrastructure work from the same pot as you buy players. The budgets shouldn't impact each other, unless you're taking out a huge loan with significant repayments which then impact your playing budget afterwards. That isn't being suggested, apart from a few who want to build a mini-Spurs or entirely knock down the Kop.
  • Interest rates are at an all time low and are highly likely to stay low for a sustained period of time. This proves a unique opportunity to do it at a lower overall impact to playing budgets.
  • The lack of fans also provides a unique opportunity to do this work without having to tell 10,000 season tickets holder they can't attend for a season, especially if this is delayed so you'll be likely to be telling them after a season where they couldn't attend every match anyway.
  • It increases our future revenues (if we do the South Stand) by having more boxes, which we're desperately short of, it also further lessens the impact on player budgets, as would having more fans attend.
  • It takes advantage of our current status, increases our profile and allows more of our fans to attend. Creating a better atmosphere, significantly higher revenues, and encouraging a new lot of fans who previously couldn't get tickets to attend and experience what makes our club so special at the moment. The affinity between fans and club.
It's a pity we haven't moved on this already for a number of the points raised above.

The absence of laost revenue when the work is being done and the low cost of borrowing money are potential once in a lifetime events to be fair.
 

I don’t understand what they mean by “remove the posts.” Surely they mean remove the roof?
Those columns are there for a reason, to support the Kop roof.
But if they are replacing the roof, they’ve obviously got build it to the final spec for the proposed new Kop stand, which in itself will be a huge undertaking......Bit confused on this one.
People talk about removing the stanchions as if it's easy.
But you've got a massive roof to support.
There is no way of doing this cheaply + it seems pointless to reconfigure the roof over the existing stand if you're gonna come back + extend it backwards in a few years , necessitating another roof.
I haven't seen any construction plans for a project simply to remove the posts.
I don't know what the proposal is.
One way would be to build a huge "goalpost" frame at the front to carry the roof.
Another would be to install some huge steel towers or posts at the back + suspend the roof on cables from them.
A third would be to make a cantilever but the shape of the concourse + the back of the spoil heap is not conducive to this unless you're doing the extension at the same time.
Any of these methods is expensive + no matter what the Club says , I just can't see them doing it as a favour to the fans without any kind of £ return.
The Club has announced (see YP article) that it has no current intention to proceed with extensions to the SS or Kop based on the old , PP approved plans.
If no one has seen any actual plans to remove the posts + reconfigure the Kop roof , then I suggest that absolutely nothing will happen in the short-term.
The Club is stuck with a Kop (on which I sit) which has posts blocking views , far too shallow a rake , rows too narrow for railseating , antiquated access + far too little catering facilities. The whole bloody thing needs a total rebuild , but there isn't the £ to do it properly + cope with the loss of 10,000 seats just now.
So we are in exactly the same position as we were 30 years ago - a cheap quick-fix or a proper job ?
We will be impaled on the horns of this dilemma for quite a while yet.
So I sympathize with the Club putting construction plans back into the "too difficult" pile + concentrating on the improvement of the squad + the Shirecliffe facility.
 

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom