Scouting infrastructure problems

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FMBlade1

FMBlade1

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This is something myself and a few others have been going on about for quite a while so I was glad someone brought this up at the fan's forum.

I am not glad however at the response which seems to be extremely shortsighted. The championship is full of players who have been brought in from overseas, they are able to do this because of the scouting infrastructure that they have. Why do we not have this as well?

Our strategy of lower league British players is all well and good but the market is getting more and more heated here, so now (which is why I bring this up) would have been a perfect time to look beyond into the foreign market to see what's available. Sadly it appears we can't do that because the board haven't got their act together.

Why aren't they acting on such scouting developments? We will need it eventually so what's stopping us going in anticipation of when we do? Most championship clubs have this yet as usual we are falling behind. I'm not usually one to criticize the board, but when we are struggling to bring in quality at the moment these sort of decisions will rightly get magnified.

Will be interested to interested to hear other's thoughts, and as usual would be delighted to be proved wrong on this

UTB
 

Ricky said:
The lack of suitable domestic striker options is a good example of why we should already be looking abroad.

We should have started getting things in place while we were still in L1.
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I know its easy to cherry pick success stories but if you look at Jonathan Kodjia he scored 15 goals in 28 games for a mediocre Angers side in the French second division. Bristol City got him for around 3 million, an absolute steal and the rest is history, how much would it have cost to get a British player with the same scoring record?

Its apparent that because of the board's inaction we are unable to sign players such as these. Fantastic.
 
Wilder seems keen on certain types who fit into his team spirit ethos. That's great as we've seen how far that can take you, and also how it can hold you back if not.

I'm genuinely surprised however that a club of our standing, who is unable to compete financially with many clubs at this level for various reasons, seems to have no interest whatsoever in even European players.

Maybe D'Jaffo and his metal back is still out there somewhere looking for black pacy types.
 
Remember the uproar when we "wasted" a few million on the desso!?!?

Imagine the uproar if we spent money of a scouting infrastructure instead of buying Jagz/Coady/Morsy (Delete as appropriate)

In all seriousness, I agree with you but I would imagine these things are costly and IMO this should be on the agenda the second we are mathematically safe in the championship. (Fingers crossed)

UTB
 
FMBlade1 said:
I know its easy to cherry pick success stories but if you look at Jonathan Kodjia he scored 15 goals in 28 games for a mediocre Angers side in the French second division. Bristol City got him for around 3 million, an absolute steal and the rest is history, how much would it have cost to get a British player with the same scoring record?

Its apparent that because of the board's inaction we are unable to sign players such as these. Fantastic.
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It would save them money so it's in their interests.

But I also think that if Wilder and Mitchell pushed hard enough for it then the club would do something about it. I get the impression that Wilder might be happy to stay in the domestic market for now, but that would contradict his determination to get value for money at all times, because it's increasingly hard to find value here.
 
The immediate priority was promotion from league 1.

So the club brought in personal to gain promotion. Wilder is an expert in the lower divisions, our plan to buy the top English talent from the lower divisions was great in league 1

But now we're in the Championship the foundations laid at the club need to be adapted.
Wilder and Knill are learning as they go along but I'm sure they'll be fine.
 
I've been looking more into this briefly and it just makes me even more annoyed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Maupay

This player had a decent scoring record in the French second division last season. The stats are all available on Wikipedia. It took me 30 seconds to find them.

He signs for Brentford for just £1.6 million and has already scored twice in three games. At the age of 21 and a former French youth international he is likely to only get better.

Could we have scouted him before Brentford got him?

If not, why not?
If we could, why didn't we?
 
Something I was thinking about the last few days so I'm glad someone else was too!

With the frankly ridiculous prices being quoted for talent (read potential gamble in a lot of cases) then it surely make sense to spread our wings a little and look elsewhere. It's an area we've never really excelled in exploring but it strikes me as no surprise that nothing is in place. These things take time to set up and given we were in League 1 it would've been at the bottom of the agenda. It's certainly something I think we should be pressing on with though.
 
Considering how well Huddersfield did last year using foreign players, I'd say this is a must for us now.

Also CW's latest statement thatv no prgress has been made on our transfer targets says to me that we've reached a tipping point, we either need to look elsehwere for value or up the amounts we're willing to spend in the domestic market
 
The argument for this is overwhelmingly strong and we seem pretty unanimous about it.

It's not something the club can be turning a blind eye to.

We need developments in this department ASAP.
 
FMBlade1 said:
I know its easy to cherry pick success stories but if you look at Jonathan Kodjia he scored 15 goals in 28 games for a mediocre Angers side in the French second division. Bristol City got him for around 3 million, an absolute steal and the rest is history, how much would it have cost to get a British player with the same scoring record?

Its apparent that because of the board's inaction we are unable to sign players such as these. Fantastic.
Click to expand...

Hope Kev don't read that or billy will be gone.......







.......for £750K



When they come knocking!!
 
FMBlade1 said:
I've been looking more into this briefly and it just makes me even more annoyed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Maupay

This player had a decent scoring record in the French second division last season. The stats are all available on Wikipedia. It took me 30 seconds to find them.

He signs for Brentford for just £1.6 million and has already scored twice in three games. At the age of 21 and a former French youth international he is likely to only get better.

Could we have scouted him before Brentford got him?

If not, why not?
If we could, why didn't we?
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you answered your own question in your first post
 

Ricky said:
The argument for this is overwhelmingly strong and we seem pretty unanimous about it.

It's not something the club can be turning a blind eye to.

We need developments in this department ASAP.
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Quick unanimous agreement on football policy on a SUFC forum, must be a first? XD

Well apparently some people at the club do watch what's going on here, so if they are know that we are watching what you are going to do about this
 
Marty_Mcfly said:
Considering how well Huddersfield did last year using foreign players, I'd say this is a must for us now.

Also CW's latest statement thatv no prgress has been made on our transfer targets says to me that we've reached a tipping point, we either need to look elsehwere for value or up the amounts we're willing to spend in the domestic market
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Huddersfield also appointed a manager and backroom team with a very good, working knowledge of Germany and German players and players in the German league. They did nothing different to what Wilder and Mitchell did, use their knowledge to recruit players they knew would fit with their plans and philosophy. Setting up an effective scouting system abroad takes time and a bit of money to get right and be effective. Somebody sitting on Wikipaedia looking at stats is not going to work.
 
Pretty sure I read something about Sevilla's scouting network under Monchi. Basically, they use statistics to identify and rank a wide selection of targets which is then narrowed down to those they're going to scout in more detail. This is a side which has frequently turned small purchases into big sales (Dani Alves: in for €200k, out for €36m; Ivan Rakitic: in for €2.5m, out for €20m; Gregorz Krychowiak: in for €4.5m, out for €40m).

You don't need a permanent worldwide scouting network to find good players abroad. What you do need is some decent analysts and a contact list and that shouldn't be beyond us.
 
Would be interested to know what the manager thinks of our current set up and whether he'd welcome it. He seems the type to favour British players, or maybe that's only because of what he's had at his disposal.
 
SouthEssexBlade said:
Huddersfield also appointed a manager and backroom team with a very good, working knowledge of Germany and German players and players in the German league. They did nothing different to what Wilder and Mitchell did, use their knowledge to recruit players they knew would fit with their plans and philosophy. Setting up an effective scouting system abroad takes time and a bit of money to get right and be effective. Somebody sitting on Wikipaedia looking at stats is not going to work.
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No-one is suggesting using Wikipedia so don't be facetious (knew the consensus wouldn't last and was too good to be true)

This takes time for sure, things should have been set in motion from 5pm on the 8th April. Its now 17th August, over four months that could have been spent getting things up and running. Yes it costs money but we were promised game changing investment, I can understand not wanting to blow huge fees on players but this set up is a no brainer.

We should have a good working knowledge of other leagues. How were Brentford able to sign Maupay?
 
Marty_Mcfly said:
Considering how well Huddersfield did last year using foreign players, I'd say this is a must for us now.

Also CW's latest statement thatv no prgress has been made on our transfer targets says to me that we've reached a tipping point, we either need to look elsehwere for value or up the amounts we're willing to spend in the domestic market
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German manager recruiting six players from German clubs. Slightly different from scouting Europe.

Much of the rest if the squad bought from lower leagues and PLclub loans.

Been brought up before but as with everything it's about money. Plus maybe CW isn't yet interested in that market.

Someone maybe a "steal" at £3m if the owner is very very wealthy. It's a pipedream if not.
 
FMBlade1 said:
No-one is suggesting using Wikipedia so don't be facetious (knew the consensus wouldn't last and was too good to be true)

This takes time for sure, things should have been set in motion from 5pm on the 8th April. Its now 17th August, over four months that could have been spent getting things up and running. Yes it costs money but we were promised game changing investment, I can understand not wanting to blow huge fees on players but this set up is a no brainer.

We should have a good working knowledge of other leagues. How were Brentford able to sign Maupay?
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They had the money?
 
I believe we had a head of European Football on the board until recently who's key role was to scout the Continent on our behalf.
 
Sean Thornton said:
They had the money?
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Maupay cost just £1.6 million. We have had £5 million (at least) in sell on fees, plus the original budget we were set.

I can't believe that our total transfer outlay has cost more than £2 million in total thus far.

Are you saying we can't afford a player costing £1.6 million? Pretty shocking if you're right.
 
raul said:
I believe we had a head of European Football on the board until recently who's key role was to scout the Continent on our behalf.
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Very true is that. Nothing came of it whatsoever from what i know?
 
Brentford appear to have done very well to get Maupay and Watkins for a combined total of around (and initially under) £4m.

Looks like a great punt.

Mokotjo also looks like a decent import.
 

These days, English clubs (due to the higher wage structures) are alerted to the availability of many players abroad by their agents. It doesn't take long to have a quick gander online to find out their stats and how well they're thought of by the club, fans etc.

Only then should any scouting missions be needed.

In this day and age, it's more or less impossible to recruit players from footballing backwaters that nobody has ever heard of.
 
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