Pre-Match Police Issues - Bit of an Update

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Glyn Hodges left foot said:
I have had a response from Amanda Jacks from fsf after she has met with Wayne from the SUISA and with Chief Supt Morley on Monday and here are the notes from the meeting.....

Sheffield Derby September 2017

Meeting with Chief Superintendent Shaun Morley, South Yorkshire Police. 13 November

Amanda Jacks Football Supporters Federation

Wayne Denial Sheffield Utd Independent Supporters Association


Due to the high number of supporters who’d contacted us with concerns about some aspects of the policing at the Sheffield Derby in September, Chief Supt Morley of South Yorkshire Police agreed to meet with us to discuss them.

The main issues arising were the escort meaning a large number of SUFC arrived at Hillsborough well into the first half of the game, lack of communication on the day and failure to acknowledge the large number of complaints raised on social media about the policing.

It should firstly be acknowledged that not all supporters has concerns about the policing. Indeed, many were very happy with it, and posted complementary comments on social media. However, that does not negate the views of others, hence the meeting to discuss them further.

Chief Supt Morley explained that Super Trams had provided three additional trams to take SUFC supporters from the town centre to the stadium. He assured us that his officers went into pubs to advise fans of this and of the departure times.

Notwithstanding the provision of the three trams, a large number of SUFC supporters tried to get on the first one. While they were boarding, SYP became aware of a group of SWFC risk fans congregating in a park on the tram route which meant the trams needed to be halted as the risk of their passing the park was too high in terms of disorder breaking out.

The intention was to hold the trams for a very short time, around five minutes while officers dealt with the risk. Once the all clear was given for the trams to start moving again, the stop cord was pulled, passengers disembarked with many refusing to get back on, preferring to walk. This posed a further issue for SYP due to the proximity to Hillsborough Corner. Officers had to be organised to facilitate walking fans to the stadium by which time, the SWFC fans had dispersed.

Chief Supt Morley was clear that SWFC were informed of this and that enough turnstiles were not open was a matter for the club, not SYP.

With regard to the trams being over crowded, Chief Supt Morley suggested that that was a matter for Super Tram, whose staff were there to facilitate safe boarding, and that his offices were there merely to assist in this regard.

Chief Supt Morley acknowledged supporter feedback that communication was not as good as it could be. This is something that he will take up with colleagues. He was just as clear that the operation had to take place as it did as since had it not, there undoubtedly would have been disorder. Chief Supt Morley accepts the disruption and disappointment caused but SYPs duty and obligation to prevent disorder was and is paramount.

The issue of communication was stressed again. The point was further made that after the match SYP ignored all the negative comments while highlighting the positive ones they’d received. Chief Supt Morley accepted Amanda’s point that the vast majority of supporters at the game were those who very likely were part of the local community – those that SYP policed regularly – and that by ignoring their concerns, it had the potential to hinder rather than help good community relations. We were assured that those concerns were properly noted and would be acted on.

With regard to the closure of the London Road, Chief Supt Morley assured us that all publicans had been met with before the game and it had been impressed on them that it was their obligation to manage drinkers and behaviour. The pubs that did close, did so on a voluntary basis.

Finally, with the return fixture fast approaching, Chief Supt Morley agreed it would be both a helpful and positive move to meet with supporter groups ahead of the next fixture and a meeting will be arranged. He also agreed that Amanda Jacks can shadow the policing operation, an invitation that she will gratefully accept.

What happened at the game can’t be changed. What can be changed, however, is the relationship between supporter groups and SYP and we hope that this meeting is a first, positive step towards that. We hope supporters will acknowledge that SYP appreciated the disappointment that a sizeable number of innocent match goers missed a lot of the match and that they recognised there is room for improvement when it comes to communications.
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Thanks for the update GHLF and praise to Amanda Jacks for pushing this. Are we sure Wayne DENIAL wasn't the name of the Chief Superintendent! As expected a complete whitewash with emphasis on a few praises on twitter. Bet the SYP PR people told him to get that in early. I was on the same tram as Foxy and his account is spot on. I'd add I was in the carriage with the pregnant girl and it was less than comfortable. No mention of the women taken ill on the first tram. The Police did not tell us there were three trams only that if we didn't get the next tram which was the last one we would miss the game. This caused the rush to get on the first tram.

I've seen nothing in this note of the meeting or other utterances since the game that SYP did appreciate our disappointment. If they did they would have apologised for getting it wrong and provided instances of how they are going to get it right in the future. Simply saying concerns have been noted means it will be put away in a file until the next problem arises. Any way did any find out if we are going to get a drink before the match on 12 January?
 

Sean Thornton said:
That's exactly why it was pulled. And the tram didn't stop. I was on it, Morley wasn't and he's lying rather than accept it wasn't the success he claimed in the Star.
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A member of SYP telling lies ..........well I never ST who would have thought it eh:rolleyes:
 
Sean Thornton said:
The officers are the tram were pretty decent. When they eventually realised it wasn't chock full of BBC and high risk hooligans like they been led to believe, they were sympathetic but said they'd got their orders and they were stuck with them. One eventually broke ranks and got the doors open. No surprise that they were from forces other than SYP.

The ones at and towards the top who did the planning are the ones who want a kick up the arse.
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I wasn't at the game so cannot comment on what happened, but I don't dispute what has been posted here. I have a bit of sympathy for the policeman at the pointy end. We do have a few nobs who want to argue and be obnoxious but that is no excuse for treating us all like shit. It wouldn't happen anywhere else as it does.

When you see protests getting out of hand the police take much more abuse and react by standing back and seem to let it happen. Compare that to football. Come out of the ground after a game and we get told which way to go, dogs barking and pulling on the lead and the police fully ready in riot gear hoping for someone to step out of line. Who orders them to act in this way. They are the ones who need bringing to account.
 
This has a chance to be a good piece for the national media, why when you read or see most of the shit nowadays is this not being reported nationwide?

If the Police weren’t there at all I don’t think it would’ve been much worse.
 
They have a tough job and those at the front line often get it in the neck unfairly... They do often have to make snap decisions and as has been seen in the past, communication on such a day is still a massive problem. People are always going to be angry with something they do on derby day and these games simply can't go ahead without their attendance and planning.

The problem being, no-one I'm aware of who experienced the tram issue seems to believe the explanation, never mind agree that it helped as intended.

Until they restore that confidence by convincing and giving a consistent message, it's always going to feel like an 'us' and 'them' to many.

I often speak to members of the force 'on the ground' who are the kind to give me the straightest answer they are able to share... They need more of that at all ranks and to open dialogue, rather than make people feel like they are against them.
 
South Yorkshire Police commanders got things wrong which led to a number of fans needlessly missing large parts of the game.

South Yorkshire Police commanders refuse to accept any responsibility for their actions and try to blame every other institution involved apart from themselves despite evidence, video and eye witness accounts to the contrary.

Twas ever thus. Shysters. Not the 5-O on the ground - those teflon fuckers at the top.
 
Glyn Hodges left foot said:
I have had a response from Amanda Jacks from fsf after she has met with Wayne from the SUISA and with Chief Supt Morley on Monday and here are the notes from the meeting.....

Sheffield Derby September 2017

Meeting with Chief Superintendent Shaun Morley, South Yorkshire Police. 13 November

Amanda Jacks Football Supporters Federation

Wayne Denial Sheffield Utd Independent Supporters Association


Due to the high number of supporters who’d contacted us with concerns about some aspects of the policing at the Sheffield Derby in September, Chief Supt Morley of South Yorkshire Police agreed to meet with us to discuss them.

The main issues arising were the escort meaning a large number of SUFC arrived at Hillsborough well into the first half of the game, lack of communication on the day and failure to acknowledge the large number of complaints raised on social media about the policing.

It should firstly be acknowledged that not all supporters has concerns about the policing. Indeed, many were very happy with it, and posted complementary comments on social media. However, that does not negate the views of others, hence the meeting to discuss them further.

Chief Supt Morley explained that Super Trams had provided three additional trams to take SUFC supporters from the town centre to the stadium. He assured us that his officers went into pubs to advise fans of this and of the departure times.

Notwithstanding the provision of the three trams, a large number of SUFC supporters tried to get on the first one. While they were boarding, SYP became aware of a group of SWFC risk fans congregating in a park on the tram route which meant the trams needed to be halted as the risk of their passing the park was too high in terms of disorder breaking out.

The intention was to hold the trams for a very short time, around five minutes while officers dealt with the risk. Once the all clear was given for the trams to start moving again, the stop cord was pulled, passengers disembarked with many refusing to get back on, preferring to walk. This posed a further issue for SYP due to the proximity to Hillsborough Corner. Officers had to be organised to facilitate walking fans to the stadium by which time, the SWFC fans had dispersed.

Chief Supt Morley was clear that SWFC were informed of this and that enough turnstiles were not open was a matter for the club, not SYP.

With regard to the trams being over crowded, Chief Supt Morley suggested that that was a matter for Super Tram, whose staff were there to facilitate safe boarding, and that his offices were there merely to assist in this regard.

Chief Supt Morley acknowledged supporter feedback that communication was not as good as it could be. This is something that he will take up with colleagues. He was just as clear that the operation had to take place as it did as since had it not, there undoubtedly would have been disorder. Chief Supt Morley accepts the disruption and disappointment caused but SYPs duty and obligation to prevent disorder was and is paramount.

The issue of communication was stressed again. The point was further made that after the match SYP ignored all the negative comments while highlighting the positive ones they’d received. Chief Supt Morley accepted Amanda’s point that the vast majority of supporters at the game were those who very likely were part of the local community – those that SYP policed regularly – and that by ignoring their concerns, it had the potential to hinder rather than help good community relations. We were assured that those concerns were properly noted and would be acted on.

With regard to the closure of the London Road, Chief Supt Morley assured us that all publicans had been met with before the game and it had been impressed on them that it was their obligation to manage drinkers and behaviour. The pubs that did close, did so on a voluntary basis.

Finally, with the return fixture fast approaching, Chief Supt Morley agreed it would be both a helpful and positive move to meet with supporter groups ahead of the next fixture and a meeting will be arranged. He also agreed that Amanda Jacks can shadow the policing operation, an invitation that she will gratefully accept.

What happened at the game can’t be changed. What can be changed, however, is the relationship between supporter groups and SYP and we hope that this meeting is a first, positive step towards that. We hope supporters will acknowledge that SYP appreciated the disappointment that a sizeable number of innocent match goers missed a lot of the match and that they recognised there is room for improvement when it comes to communications.
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Thanks for posting this GHLF - had the same e-mail as you did from Amanda & was disappointed overall with the SYPD response - though frankly not at all surprised.

Buck-passing
Issue-dodging
Side-stepping
Story-changing.... yada yada yada

Like others have mentioned, there are so many incorrect statements in it that those of us who were actually there KNOW aren’t the truth. The biggest one for me being the total farce around the whole Tram fiasco & the emergency chord. Utter bollocks.

OK, so there’s a bit of acknowledgement that things could have been better & to try & move forward, they want to meet with fans before the Jan derby & have Amanda along to see the operation. But how much difference this will make really? Can’t help but feel it’s more PR than owt serious.

Would like to be involved in it though - and will offer my attendance via Amanda.

Cheers all & UTB’s.
 
GRUMPY BLADE said:
"SYP appreciated the disappointment that a sizeable number of innocent match goers missed a lot of the match and that they recognised there is room for improvement when it comes to communications."

After killing 96 I'd have thought an improvement by SYP would be their first priority?
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Do you believe that any officer on duty at the Pig’s game should bear any blame for the Hillsborough Disaster?
 
It should firstly be acknowledged that not all supporters has concerns about the policing. Indeed, many were very happy with it, and posted complementary comments on social media.

Not all supporters were forced to miss a large part of the match or subject to overcrowding on trams...

Chief Supt Morley was clear that SWFC were informed of this and that enough turnstiles were not open was a matter for the club, not SYP.

With regard to the trams being over crowded, Chief Supt Morley suggested that that was a matter for Super Tram, whose staff were there to facilitate safe boarding, and that his offices were there merely to assist in this regard.

Chief Supt Morley acknowledged supporter feedback that communication was not as good as it could be. This is something that he will take up with colleagues. He was just as clear that the operation had to take place as it did as since had it not, there undoubtedly would have been disorder.

With regard to the closure of the London Road, Chief Supt Morley assured us that all publicans had been met with before the game and it had been impressed on them that it was their obligation to manage drinkers and behaviour.

Notwithstanding the provision of the three trams, a large number of SUFC supporters tried to get on the first one. While they were boarding, SYP became aware of a group of SWFC risk fans congregating in a park on the tram route which meant the trams needed to be halted as the risk of their passing the park was too high in terms of disorder breaking out. I'm amazed they're not pinning the blame on Parks & Recreations...

The issue of communication was stressed again. The point was further made that after the match SYP ignored all the negative comments while highlighting the positive ones they’d received. Chief Supt Morley accepted Amanda’s point that the vast majority of supporters at the game were those who very likely were part of the local community – those that SYP policed regularly – and that by ignoring their concerns, it had the potential to hinder rather than help good community relations. We were assured that those concerns were properly noted and would be acted on. By deflecting blame everywhere but SYPD.

Yours sneeringly,
Chief Super Buck Passer,
The nearest Mason's Lodge
 
Sirius said:
Do you believe that any officer on duty at the Pig’s game should bear any blame for the Hillsborough Disaster?
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The organisation should be brought to account for both Hillsborough and Orgreave,clear enough for yer?
 
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