Palace 2 United 0 - report

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Personally, I still had a flicker of hope this morning, but it was well and truly extinguished by the end of the game.
 
We have 4 players who haven’t embarrassed themselves this season: Basham, Egan, McGoldrick and Baldock.

Wilder moved one of them out of position to accommodate Ampadu, the lazy child without a spine, and left the other out completely whilst Fleck, Stevens and Mousset were given free reign to play like garbage.

I want Wilder gone. His management gets more pathetic by the week.

I say again, if he wasn’t a 50 something Blades fan that people see as a reflection of themselves, everyone would have been calling for his head.

I shudder to think what sort of crap will get brought in on loan.
 
We seem to have an amazing ability to make it look like the opposition have more players than we do.

When you’re not chasing or tracking your players you’re leaving a weak back line overwhelmed and goals are only a matter of time.

Conceding early I can take, but at the moment as soon as one goes in you know it’s over, 4th minute or 84th.

I watched the whole game yesterday, as I have for all our games, but I’m starting to think it’s not worth missing time with my daughters if the team aren’t even trying anymore.

McG and Bogle seemed our only interested players yesterday, even Egan was going through the motions. How many times did McG have to track back to get the ball from a non-existent midfield? And then we expect him to make his own chances and score too? In the Prem?

It’s so frustrating at the moment. All we want is fight and pride, but we’re getting nonchalant unfit players more interested in pointing fingers after they’ve fucked up than getting stuck in and fighting in the first place.
 
It was just a good solid win for Palace against a very poor side. Scored a fortunate early goal, sat back and worked hard to deny us space and closed us down and with Zaha up front were quite happy to wait for another chance to arrive at some point in the game.
At 2 nil that was it, game over, so happy day for them and a nice easy straightforward 3 points, job done.
As far as I can see we will now just play the season out, try and keep it tight and not take too many hammerings
Clearly it’s astonishing that so many players have gone backwards collectively from last season and now look like Championship players at best.
I get for a club like us it’s hard to sign the best players available but some of the signings now and extended contracts offered have been poor decisions.
But we are where we are, just got to try and be positive, keep working hard, battle out each game and except the inevitability of relegation
So sad, but what a fantastic previous 5 years, when we really were in dire and horrendous position getting beaten by Gillingham, Shrewsbury, Yeovil etc etc
 
In one of the first interviews CW gave when he arrived, he said,and I paraphrase, when his team gets the ball he expects them firstly to look up and pass forward. How refreshing, I thought, after the rubbish we had been used to watching. Compare that philosophy with the game yesterday. On 75 mins, we were 2 down with one shot on goal. For the next 5 minutes we passed the ball sideways and backwards in our own half. Now I realise that watching on the TV you cannot get the full perspective that allows you to see runners off the ball, but either there were no runners to pass to, or they were being ignored by our defence. The other comment I would make is that we were bullied off the ball consistently with one exeption when we shoulder-charged Ward. To a man, a poor Palace side were faster, stronger and wanted it more than us. Sad times .
 
Deadbat said:
Ratings:



Ramsdale 5/10 – No chance on the first – hit Egan and maybe he might have got it if it had not hit him. Made one easy save and the second goal I do think he was slow down but Egan may have covered the ball and again given no protection whatsoever. It does seem shots go in quite easily but not sure we can keep picking fault in him. Other than this he did not have much to do. A few shots went wide or deflected and he saved one easy one. He dropped a cross again. He does every week and it is worrying we have a keeper who struggles with basic catching. Must be awful playing in our team though knowing you will have shot after shot coming in. He gets 5 as he had nothing to do so not sure how I can mark him up.



Bogle 4.5/10 – Thought he struggled defensively and the first goal he does not react at all. He was at fault for the first goal in that he does not see the runner and gets back way too quick. Did have a few moments going forward including the one shot first half but then chopped Zaha down. He struggled with quick runners and people going at him. A few times Zaha and Eze ran off him. He did have a few runs near the end of the game but lacked conviction and any belief he could create anything. Not sure he was any worse than the rest really and I thought he put a bit more effort in than most but quality wise and technically looks way off the level needed – as did Lowe.



Stevens 2/10 – Carried on his nightmare form. Looks like he just wants rid of it and has no confidence or composure at al. He looks so slow and cannot react at all to things. Gave away a series of fouls. One moment where Osborn kicked it him and he just kicked it out. Gave it away twice second half under no pressure. He looks woeful at the moment and nowhere near the player he was to start last season. If we could get Norrington Davies back and give him some games I would as we need to plan for next season. Sadly, not sure Lowe is the answer. Stevens looks like he is drunk. I do worry what has happened to players like him. It is like they do not even know how to do the basics anymore.



Basham 3/10 – Started at the back I thought but then went into midfield early on. He ran around but he looked like the early midfield Bash of League One and a bit out of his depth today. He looked clumsy and was poor on it but did not affect the game off the ball. He just ran around but they had quicker, more mobile and skilled players. He did set up the chance for Hackford but it was the poorest game he has had for some time. He was woeful today and I felt sorry for him as even he seems to have lost his belief.



Osborn 3/10 – Another who looks woefully out of depth. Touch wise it kept coming off him and too weak to impact things physically. Players looks stronger and faster and more skilled in every area. He has moved him to left wing back and left midfield but he is miles off a Premier League player in any position. He gets harried out of it or outmuscled routinely and when he gets on it he gives it away or plays a hopeful ball down the line. Just looks like it’s a standard too high for him.



Egan 4.5/10 – First goal he gets outpaced with ball over the top – a weakness of his. He should have done better maybe to get there and even if Zaha does get away he needs to be closer on the second bit and then kind of compounds it but deflecting in the goal. After this he kept plugging away but the strikers looked a bit quick and nippy. The second he does not properly close down and ends up providing a nice shield for the scorer. Did block a few shots second half but even then, they got away from us way too easy and they just ran off us. I feel he gets no protection though at all. His standards even dropped a bit today.



Norwood 3.5/10 – Thought he started better in that he actually went forward a bit with his passing and was not as negative. Some were a bit aimless but at least he got us up the pitch. He was involved at least but then slowly he started to regress. He lost it a few times and they ran away from him such as the goal as he could even point to where he should have been to stop Eze’s run. Then he got booked for a poor foul and second half he was woeful. He tried several crossfield balls that did not even get to Stevens and hit some bad corners. He had one half chance on another corner that came across but he dithered. Looks so slow and stuck in mud. Our midfield is pitiful in their lack of pace, class and strength. We look like u10’s against men’s footballers.



Fleck 2/10 – Given a start but he was terrible again. He had a bit of the ball early but just kept giving it to the nearest man and then hiding rather than going off into space to receive back. He then gave a few hospital balls and slowly got worse. He chopped his man down three times and finally got booked. Had one shot deflected over and one run forward but looks like a different player. He looks done and that is a big statement. Not sure what has happened to him, Stevens and Norwood but they literally look like players who you worry if they will still be playing in 2 years’ time at league level. That is a mad statement but it’s not just a confidence/touch thing. Those three players legs have literally gone. They cannot even run. It is hard to fathom but they look so heavy legged to the point where it is like the other teams are on speed boost constantly compared to ours.



Ampadu 2/10 – Might lose a load of marks for that challenge alone! He seemed to start the game in midfield but then ended up back in defence – as I say maybe he did not but seemed that way. Anyway, he was awful throughout with several weak challenges, misplaced passes and a real lack of intelligence. He looks a terrible player and I am not sure what he offers at all. I’d send him back. The way he let Eze run past him was appalling but not a surprise as he showed last week with the goal when he let the player beat him easily. He has been directly (yes others involved) at fault for two goals this week. Miles off ever being a top-level player. I can see him being loaned out again next year – he has another 2 years on his Chelsea contract but by the end of it you could see him ending up down the leagues.



McGoldrick 5/10 – Tried his best and maybe gets our least bad player (Man of the Match?!) by default. He at least tried to get on it a few times and came back to help our pathetic midfield. Got crowded out and not sure much came off. Twice he got in good positions but no one was up with him. Had one weak shot second half and he kept going but had no movement in front. Everyone, including me, will pick apart our midfield but our strikers (yes, I know he started there) do not move at all. They cannot even stay onside see below.



Mousset 2/10 – Anonymous. Barely touched the ball and was caught offside twice when he was not even watching. Had one run where he won a corner and not sure he touched it after that. He did not even move very much. Just looked stationery. He may not get much of the ball but he does not even show for it or make forward runs. One I cannot see being at the club come the summer. He had some talent but rarely plays and when he does is not impacting games at all.





Subs –



Brewster 2/10 – See Mousset. Not sure he had a kick really. Yes, we did not get it forward but he has to do more. Show for it, chase it, battle, win challenges. Once the ball was 70-30 his and he lost it and they just shrugged him off and came away from it. Not sure it is helping him being in and out. We may as well play him now and at least give him chance to develop. He is the future for us you would hope, not Mousset.



Hackford – Got 10 minutes and had a chance near the end which he maybe snatched at a bit but did more with getting in an area and having an effort than Brewster and Mousset in 90 mins combined really. He is probably miles off the Premier League in that he was playing u18’s a few weeks ago at Shirecliffe in a league that is against teams that are well below the Premier League and has not even been playing u23s but they must see something. Dream for him being a year 11 still I believe at Myrtle Springs School and from Arbourthorne. The only positive from today was him coming on and seeing his pride to play for his team.



Manager Wilder 1/10 – Not sure what more I can say. It’s awful to watch. We do not look like scoring, we look insipid, there is no quality, we are boring and rudderless. It is a team that looks a sorry set and has no belief. We do not look like we can score a goal let alone get a point or win a match. His job is to motivate, coach, instil pride, shape and a plan. At the moment he is not doing any of that. He can keep saying it is the players but at some point, the buck stops with him. He is serving this up. Week in, week out. Any other manager would have been sacked a long time ago. He stays rightly due to what he did before. Not sure there is any point changing it now. We are down. We need to see something in the remainder of the season to give us some hope for the Championship though. At the moment the notion this team will flick a switch as they are playing inferior teams I do not see. Of course, we will pick up points and wins but this group as it stands is miles off returning. They have no confidence in the set-up, way of playing or each other’s abilities. There is not leadership on or off the pitch and we are playing games to lose. Not sure what happens if we do keep losing. I do feel he may walk away but maybe he does not want to as he has too much pride but there comes a point where something will give. I would be surprised if we lose say every game till the end of the season and he remains. I want him to stay and would be gutted if he left, especially like this but feel it’s a close call now if he is here to start the Championship next season. There are no obvious contenders to replace him but as I say feel his professional pride will see him walk. He would give up a lot of money but think him and the Prince would come to some sort of arrangement.



I do wonder why none of the Radio Sheffield or national press ask him about if he is considering quitting or is thinking about his future or what he changes? They are being quite nice to him. Yes he gets prickly but surely a good journalist would be more quizzical on the dire state of things and ask specifically about what he will do.



I get he did not have much to work with. I do wonder why we did not postpone. We may have a few injuries and Lundstram suspended but it seems we have a number of players out with COVID-19 related issues. Burke, McBurnie, Sharp, Robinson to name a few you would think may be affected. It does seem odd Newcastle, City and Fulham have called games and I am struggling to understand when you can say you do not play? It seems to be very random. I do think if the club had asked for a postponement no one would have batted an eye lid. I get the impression Wilder and the club just want to get on with it. It is almost like they want to just get it over and done with. On one hand I like the fact we don’t give excuses and want to play but also you worry about the health risks etc and there is a fine line between just going out and playing and using common sense. Maybe that is harsh as we do not know the ins and outs.



Crystal Palace – Been really struggling recently but just rocking up was probably just the tonic for Roy Hodgson and co. I did think they may be near the bottom this year and be one of those to dip a bit but they held onto Zaha, signed Eze and a few others and you thought maybe they would have enough flair and creativity. They started the season ok but have really gone off the boil and had been on an awful run. Hodgson’s job was being discussed as being in doubt which I feel is harsh as he has done a solid job there. Like Dyche and Burnley, our last opponent, them just staying up is surely an achievement if you compare spending and resources to others. Granted at some point they will have to find a younger model so to speak but I would think he is as good as they will go, a steady pair of hands to keep them at this level for a few years. Still shocked Zaha has not moved on and feel for his own career he will have to sooner rather than later.



I know we had injuries but you could argue all 9 of the subs they had would get in our starting line-up. That may seem an outlandish comment but even Butland I think many may take over Ramsdale and he would have been a lot cheaper. They do have creativity and some goal threats in their side and a few players who can make things. They have a lot of functional players like McCarthy, Milivojevic and McArthur who offer legs, bite and the basis we do not have in midfield shows again the difference. Yet, last season we would not have swapped any of our midfield for those three!



Defensively they had gone 15 games without a clean sheet prior to the game which was 2nd worst to us but they do not concede loads really and like us had a fair few narrow defeats (outside Liverpool). They have only kept one clean sheet all season and we have kept none! You knew today they would get the next.



Today was easy. They scored early and are not a possession-based side so just let us have it and then picked us off on the break. I reckon if they wanted, they could have scored 4 or 5. I think they will be right near the bottom but were still miles better than us and have forwards we only dream of.





Opponent Man of the Match – Zaha. A really annoying t**t and lucky not to get a card; maybe even red but he is a talent and skinned our players several times. He was too good and we could not keep up with him and had to foul him. He embarrassed Stevens and Ampadu twice with outrageous skill. He set up a few other chances that were missed but assisted on the goal. Eze a player I would have liked us to sign and would have been a better option than Brewster as at least runs at people and creates scored a great goal and looked a threat on the break. Kouyate is a solid midfielder. Fast, athletic and strong. Good on the ball and progressive. Imagine that in a midfielder?!



Opponent Weak link – Not sure anyone really was bad. Keep saying this. They just did what they had to. Benteke maybe could fit in with our front line with his ponderous, slow and static play. McCarthur kicked one out of his own foot and I laughed as it was like something we would do.



Referee/Officials/VAR – Stuart Attwell. Actually, may sound like sour grapes but he gave us sod all. Every 50/50 went to them and he booked ours at the drop of a hat but let some poor ones go from them. Not sure there were many bad tackles all game. Suppose ours were cynical as we chopped men down. Eze was a bit late too but was right to be yellow. The officials should spot the Zaha one. He raised his hands. Red may have been harsh but has to be a booking. VAR surely has to tell him to have a look? Think even they wanted the game done. Not sure it would have mattered if they had 8 men at this point mind. The goal Norwood maybe got fouled well before the run Eze had and I felt he played a bad advantage. Did he play longer than he should have done? Maybe. I was more annoyed at the time the player was down injured and how long it took to sort it out. It is clutching at straws looking for officials mistakes as not sure there were many clear and obvious ones really even though we got little but not sure we ever run at players or commit men to get fouled.
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Sums it up. Some pretty high scores there for me.
 
Alwood said:
In one of the first interviews CW gave when he arrived, he said,and I paraphrase, when his team gets the ball he expects them firstly to look up and pass forward. How refreshing, I thought, after the rubbish we had been used to watching. Compare that philosophy with the game yesterday. On 75 mins, we were 2 down with one shot on goal. For the next 5 minutes we passed the ball sideways and backwards in our own half. Now I realise that watching on the TV you cannot get the full perspective that allows you to see runners off the ball, but either there were no runners to pass to, or they were being ignored by our defence. The other comment I would make is that we were bullied off the ball consistently with one exeption when we shoulder-charged Ward. To a man, a poor Palace side were faster, stronger and wanted it more than us. Sad times .
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The aimless sideways and backwards is painful to watch. Mix in repeated floated and easily intercepted diagonals for extra frustration. I think I’d sooner watch hoofball, provided we gave it a proper blood & guts effort.
 
It was amazing to see how often Didsy tried to push forward and the two "strikers" Mousett and Boy Brewster were AWOL.
 
Thanks DB! Another honest and no holds barred report on the state that is SUFC.

We are simply stinking up this league.
We are everything that CW said we never would be.

How we have spent around £50m pre season and have a worse squad than last season tells the situation we find ourselves in.

Yes there may be teams in the past (Derby for example) who were just as bad. BUT these probably didn't finish ninth the season before.

Is there any sporting team in history that has collapsed as spectacularly as ours?
 
coaxingstar71 said:
Thanks for the report Deadbat

I can feel the frustration in your writing. Desperate times.

Miles away today.
Chasing shadows.
Men v Boys.

As if it wasn't bad enough, even Wednesday have started winning now.

Thinking of putting a tenner on Bristol Rovers to beat us.
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7/2 seems generous tbh
 
Kev Gee said:
Thanks DB! Another honest and no holds barred report on the state that is SUFC.

We are simply stinking up this league.
We are everything that CW said we never would be.

How we have spent around £50m pre season and have a worse squad than last season tells the situation we find ourselves in.

Yes there may be teams in the past (Derby for example) who were just as bad. BUT these probably didn't finish ninth the season before.

Is there any sporting team in history that has collapsed as spectacularly as ours?
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There may be one who can rival us...

Golden State Warriors in the NBA were regularly the best team in the NBA or at least always got to the finals. They won 3 titles in 2015,17 and 18 and in 18-19 got to the finals again winning 57 out of 82 games.

They lost to Toronto and lost three key players to serious injury. One Kevin Durant then left in free agency. It then fell apart spectacularly.

Then went from a team that was expected to continue dominating the league to the worst team in the league and won only 15 games last season. So from the best record to the worst. One of their players came back from injury, Klay Thompson, and had another bad injury.

They are now an also ran despite having a great player in Steph Curry.
 
Thanks DB.
I'm going out on a limb here, but i actually thought the young new recruits were knitting together pretty well, especially in the first half, the problem for me is the likes of Fleck, Stevens, Norwood, even McGoldrick just seem to revert to type slowing the game down,
backwards, sideways passes.
The younger lads clearly are not ready yet but you might expect the "older" more established players to help them out but it doesn't happen, we are going to need a huge clear out in the summer that's for sure.

I do wish people would get Ramsdales back, i've said before he is still young and learning his trade and to me looks a descent keeper,
OK he dropped one yesterday and everybody uses that to criticise him, conveniently not seeing the good stuff he does.

As for CW and his team, don't know what to think, maybe best to see out things pan out i'm just glad i'm not the Prince he has some difficult decisions to make.

I just hope CW can get a few descent loans in during January to help stem the tide, other than that i can't see where the next point is coming from.
 
Revolution said:
We have 4 players who haven’t embarrassed themselves this season: Basham, Egan, McGoldrick and Baldock
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Interesting opinion but not quite matching the fans ratings which rate our best players this season as: Bogle, Burke, Berge, and Rammers. We have seen a massive drop off in performance and intensity level from Bash, Egan and Baldock from last season. I would say these 3 whilst not embarrasing themselves have not played well at all.
 

robbiez666 said:
We passed it from one side of the defence to the other with consummate ease. Even forwards occasionally before we passed it backwards again.
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Yes, we seem to think we're still capable of scoring plenty of goals by carving slowly through opposition teams. It doesn't seem to matter that they get men behind the ball, by all accounts we're so confident that we'll beat them one by one - that we let them get back.


Palace on the other hand, value direct, forward passing, breaking the lines, getting in behind teams, running at defenders, forcing defenders to defend facing their own goal. It gave them two goals:

1609690971369.png

1609691187311.png

Just had a look at Newcastle vs Leicester, and both Leicester's goals also happened as they found space and then ran at the defence.



1609691428619.png
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Four goals, modern effective football, it's so much more difficult for defenders when they are being turned.


As mentioned we regularly allow teams to get players back before we slowly build attacks. The image below isn't the best example, but it shows we have to beat three Palace midfielders and their back four to get through.


1609691083377.png

It's not impossible to create chances this way, but it is more difficult. Don't think we've scored even one such goal (patient passing moves down the flanks) this season. The above was one of our best attacks yesterday, where Ampadu took a man on and slipped a ball through to Bogle who finished from a difficult angle. Hackford's chance was a similar type of attack, helped by Bogle taking players on.
 
Bergen Blade said:
Yes, we seem to think we're still capable of scoring plenty of goals by carving slowly through opposition teams. It doesn't seem to matter that they get men behind the ball, by all accounts we're so confident that we'll beat them one by one - that we let them get back.


Palace on the other hand, value direct, forward passing, breaking the lines, getting in behind teams, running at defenders, forcing defenders to defend facing their own goal. It gave them two goals:

View attachment 102027

View attachment 102029

Just had a look at Newcastle vs Leicester, and both Leicester's goals also happened as they found space and then ran at the defence.



View attachment 102030
View attachment 102032

Four goals, modern effective football, it's so much more difficult for defenders when they are being turned.


As mentioned we regularly allow teams to get players back before we slowly build attacks. The image below isn't the best example, but it shows we have to beat three Palace midfielders and their back four to get through.


View attachment 102028

It's not impossible to create chances this way, but it is more difficult. Don't think we've scored even one such goal (patient passing moves down the flanks) this season. The above was one of our best attacks yesterday, where Ampadu took a man on and slipped a ball through to Bogle who finished from a difficult angle. Hackford's chance was a similar type of attack, helped by Bogle taking players on.
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By allowing defences to get back and set themselves we're basically relying on them to make a mistake. Taking away any of the advantage we have and basically pitting our debatable attack against world class defenders. Some of our best goals are when the wingbacks put in an early ball. Turn the defence. It's not like the Championship when we dominated games and put in cross after cross and eventually got lucky/pressurised players into errors.
 
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