On yer bike! Lundstrum Vs Fleck Vs Berge

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HeySethUTB

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On the interesting Lundstram and Fleck debate, who’s better?

Goals and chance creation (assists).

Both players have scored 5 goals. John fleck, however, has shot on target percentage of 37.5% in comparison to Lundstrums 25%, Fleck also contributes slightly more SOT per 90 minutes at 0.43, Lundstrum contributes 0.40. When looking at Expected goals Fleck (+1.6) has outperformed Lundstrum (-0.2). In relation to assists Lundstrum has 3 and Fleck 2, although, Fleck is far greater at creating chances with a shot/chance creation Per 90 of 2.56, Lundstrum creates only 1.41 per 90. Putting fleck into a similar bracket as Dele Alli, Jonjo Shelvey and Stuart Armstrong. He is ranked 1st at shot/chance creation at Sheffield United followed by Norwood, Sharp, Osborn, Mousset, Stevens, McGoldrick, Baldock, Zivkovic and then Lundstrum.


Passing and possession.

Lundstram has out performed fleck in overall pass completion, althought, different pass metrics exist and are effected by dead and live pass situations. For example John fleck has taken 134 dead passes these are made up of corners, FKs, throw ins Etc of these 108 are corners or FKs. To add balance Lundstrum who has only taken 23 of such passes (11 Being CKs/FKs) this gives him an advantage in the sense that it is a lot harder to complete a pass that is being contested via set piece in comparison to a live “in play” pass. Furthermore, when looking at pass type Fleck Marginally outperforms Lundstram on shorter passing 39.2% to 38.2%, medium range passing stats are identical at 85.5% it’s only longer range passing at which Lundstram significantly outperforms fleck with statistics of 51.6% (Fleck) and 73.6% (Lundstrum). Some longer range passes (passes over 20 yards) may well be CKs/FKs that Fleck/Lundstrum have taken which would have an impact on this metric. It would certainly be interesting to look at how many of the CKs and FKs were classed as long range in order to recalculate is long range pass percentage for Fleck. 100% = 79.2% 80% = 71.4%. Lundstrum (5340) has run more yards than fleck (4839) but much of this running is not progressive I.e. running towards goal with the ball. What’s impressive is fleck has had less ball carries than Lundstram and yet still ran 859 more progressive yards.

Defensive actions.

Lundstrum outperforms Fleck in overall tackles won percentage with 66% TklW, Flecks percentage is slightly lower at 63.1%. The frequency of tackles made by Lundstrum is higher this season he attempted 50, to flecks 38, this accounts for the defensive, midfield and attacking thirds. The three players who have matched Lundstrum in relation to this stat are Berge, Jagielka and Bešić, Players who have better this stat are C.Robinson (100%), Zivkovic (100%) and L.Freeman (80%) important to note that these are bit part players. When it comes to blocking the clear winner is Fleck with 44 blocks with 41 resulting in possession interceptions, Lundstrum has made 29 with 25 resulting in interceptions. What’s interesting is Berge has effectively matched this stat with 28 blocks in only 10 games of which have resulted in more turnovers of possession than Lundstrum. Tackles won Vs dribbles Lundstrum is better winning the battle 27.9% of the time in comparison to Flecks 24.3%. Once again you need to throw Berge into the mix who eclipses both of them with an impressive 40% the same as Basham. Fleck leads the way with loose ball recoveries with 250, Lundstrum 235, however lundstrum has a better aerial duel win percentage.

In Summary

Fleck offers more in an attacking and creative sense. > SOT%, Chance creation.
Lundstrum does have the better long range passing stats, however, other factors will play a part (CKs/FKs).
Both players same similar shorter/medium range passing stats.
Lundstrum runs more yards, however, Fleck is more progressive with the ball at feet (859 yards more).
Lundstrum has one of the best tackles won percentage at the club.
Fleck is superior in terms of blocking and interceptions.
Fleck recovers more loose balls
Lundstrum is much better in the air.
Sander Berge is ever present.

My opinion

Fleck offers far too much in an attacking sense and is far more influential when we are on the front foot. Passing stats and defensively they are equally competitive with Lundstram edging it, the problem Lundstrum has is just how good Sander Berge is after just 10 games for the club in all areas. To drop Fleck would be foolish, almost suicidal, from a attacking perspective. This leaves wilder with the decision of playing a very good defensive player who chips in with goals and assists (Lundstrum) or two all rounders one of which is also very good defensively (Berge) who can affect both ends of the pitch,who, legitimately turn the ball over at a much higher rate, not just block shots. Not even going to talk about Ben Osborn who is also pushing Lundstrum statistically. It does appear like Lundstrum can’t stand the heat in the kitchen so is willing to walk away, to ensure he has game time. I feel like Berge and Fleck are the way forward from an attacking standpoint and can’t see the omission of Lundstrum hurting us too much defensively, Lundstrum will know this, therefore doing whats best for himself, no room for sentiment. UTB!
 

LoughboroBlade

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On the interesting Lundstram and Fleck debate, who’s better?

Goals and chance creation (assists).

Both players have scored 5 goals. John fleck, however, has shot on target percentage of 37.5% in comparison to Lundstrums 25%, Fleck also contributes slightly more SOT per 90 minutes at 0.43, Lundstrum contributes 0.40. When looking at Expected goals Fleck (+1.6) has outperformed Lundstrum (-0.2). In relation to assists Lundstrum has 3 and Fleck 2, although, Fleck is far greater at creating chances with a shot/chance creation Per 90 of 2.56, Lundstrum creates only 1.41 per 90. Putting fleck into a similar bracket as Dele Alli, Jonjo Shelvey and Stuart Armstrong. He is ranked 1st at shot/chance creation at Sheffield United followed by Norwood, Sharp, Osborn, Mousset, Stevens, McGoldrick, Baldock, Zivkovic and then Lundstrum.


Passing and possession.

Lundstram has out performed fleck in overall pass completion, althought, different pass metrics exist and are effected by dead and live pass situations. For example John fleck has taken 134 dead passes these are made up of corners, FKs, throw ins Etc of these 108 are corners or FKs. To add balance Lundstrum who has only taken 23 of such passes (11 Being CKs/FKs) this gives him an advantage in the sense that it is a lot harder to complete a pass that is being contested via set piece in comparison to a live “in play” pass. Furthermore, when looking at pass type Fleck Marginally outperforms Lundstram on shorter passing 39.2% to 38.2%, medium range passing stats are identical at 85.5% it’s only longer range passing at which Lundstram significantly outperforms fleck with statistics of 51.6% (Fleck) and 73.6% (Lundstrum). Some longer range passes (passes over 20 yards) may well be CKs/FKs that Fleck/Lundstrum have taken which would have an impact on this metric. It would certainly be interesting to look at how many of the CKs and FKs were classed as long range in order to recalculate is long range pass percentage for Fleck. 100% = 79.2% 80% = 71.4%. Lundstrum (5340) has run more yards than fleck (4839) but much of this running is not progressive I.e. running towards goal with the ball. What’s impressive is fleck has had less ball carries than Lundstram and yet still ran 859 more progressive yards.

Defensive actions.

Lundstrum outperforms Fleck in overall tackles won percentage with 66% TklW, Flecks percentage is slightly lower at 63.1%. The frequency of tackles made by Lundstrum is higher this season he attempted 50, to flecks 38, this accounts for the defensive, midfield and attacking thirds. The three players who have matched Lundstrum in relation to this stat are Berge, Jagielka and Bešić, Players who have better this stat are C.Robinson (100%), Zivkovic (100%) and L.Freeman (80%) important to note that these are bit part players. When it comes to blocking the clear winner is Fleck with 44 blocks with 41 resulting in possession interceptions, Lundstrum has made 29 with 25 resulting in interceptions. What’s interesting is Berge has effectively matched this stat with 28 blocks in only 10 games of which have resulted in more turnovers of possession than Lundstrum. Tackles won Vs dribbles Lundstrum is better winning the battle 27.9% of the time in comparison to Flecks 24.3%. Once again you need to throw Berge into the mix who eclipses both of them with an impressive 40% the same as Basham. Fleck leads the way with loose ball recoveries with 250, Lundstrum 235, however lundstrum has a better aerial duel win percentage.

In Summary

Fleck offers more in an attacking and creative sense. > SOT%, Chance creation.
Lundstrum does have the better long range passing stats, however, other factors will play a part (CKs/FKs).
Both players same similar shorter/medium range passing stats.
Lundstrum runs more yards, however, Fleck is more progressive with the ball at feet (859 yards more).
Lundstrum has one of the best tackles won percentage at the club.
Fleck is superior in terms of blocking and interceptions.
Fleck recovers more loose balls
Lundstrum is much better in the air.
Sander Berge is ever present.

My opinion

Fleck offers far too much in an attacking sense and is far more influential when we are on the front foot. Passing stats and defensively they are equally competitive with Lundstram edging it, the problem Lundstrum has is just how good Sander Berge is after just 10 games for the club in all areas. To drop Fleck would be foolish, almost suicidal, from a attacking perspective. This leaves wilder with the decision of playing a very good defensive player who chips in with goals and assists (Lundstrum) or two all rounders one of which is also very good defensively (Berge) who can affect both ends of the pitch,who, legitimately turn the ball over at a much higher rate, not just block shots. Not even going to talk about Ben Osborn who is also pushing Lundstrum statistically. It does appear like Lundstrum can’t stand the heat in the kitchen so is willing to walk away, to ensure he has game time. I feel like Berge and Fleck are the way forward from an attacking standpoint and can’t see the omission of Lundstrum hurting us too much defensively, Lundstrum will know this, therefore doing whats best for himself, no room for sentiment. UTB!

After starting out well, the Lundstram:Lundstrum total goes somewhat awry, with 4:10 being the tally going into the defensive actions stage.

However, in a parallel to Lundstram’s own form in the latter patches of the season, a final flurry of Lundstrums sees a 6:24 final count.

But on a serious note, interesting piece. In contrast to my reply, which is largely influenced by the heat.
 

Stevo

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If anyone is after something a bit less taxing to read I hear "a brief history of time" by s.hawkins is good
 

wak1889

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I was going to attempt reading the original post but I suffer with anoraknaphobia, have I missed anything interesting ?
 

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