Loans

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If loans is the best we can do it doesn't bother me as long as we get the quality. Would rather have a premier league standard player, like Mitrovic last season, where we couldn't afford the transfer fee unless we got promoted anyway.
 

If loans is the best we can do it doesn't bother me as long as we get the quality. Would rather have a premier league standard player, like Mitrovic last season, where we couldn't afford the transfer fee unless we got promoted anyway.

The names mentioned, such as Defoe in particular, would excite me. His age is against him, but his quality is as good as what you’ll ever see in this division.

Mitrovic was a stroke of genius in Fulham’s case. A loan can either come off or it doesn’t.
 
If loans is the best we can do it doesn't bother me as long as we get the quality. Would rather have a premier league standard player, like Mitrovic last season, where we couldn't afford the transfer fee unless we got promoted anyway.
Widely regarded as the best signings that we made in the Summer
Hendo - Loan
Norwood - Loan (becomes permanent in Jan)

I'm happy with Loans

Flip side of this as well
Johnson - Loan
Woodburn - Loan

So far both have failed to make an impression and as they are loans, can be returned early or at the end of the deal
 
It's when you loom at players like calvert-Lewin, who couldn't get in our team regularly, and think, we have a youth system, but Wilder isn't giving the lads a chance, and don't come back saying he is,he played Brooks from the bench a few times, and then he anchored his place, we should have atleast 1 of the young lads coming off the bench in the later stages, but instead, we get Johnson, who, let's be honest, is dog shit!
Give the likes of Smith the chance, then maybe we wouldn't need to rely on loans so much??
 
What are loans dependant on?
Do we need friends and favours from big teams?
Is it just down to money?
Or does our style and impressive academy come into play?

Is it that ridiculous to think Deano could pull a couple of strings for us? Or could players that have moved on also point some potential loanees in our direction?

I still don't fully understand the loan system and it still seems very unfair to me, but if our promotion comes down to how well we can use it in January, then I'd like to understand it a bit more.
 
If it's loan deals, let's at least hope they are signed in early January.

But in all likelihood it'll end up being whoever's left on the shelf on the 31st
 
The names mentioned, such as Defoe in particular, would excite me. His age is against him, but his quality is as good as what you’ll ever see in this division.

Mitrovic was a stroke of genius in Fulham’s case. A loan can either come off or it doesn’t.

Defoe needs a certain type of service, the same kind of service that Billy thrives on. If we're not doing it for one, I doubt we'll provide it for the other.
 
The names mentioned, such as Defoe in particular, would excite me. His age is against him, but his quality is as good as what you’ll ever see in this division.

Mitrovic was a stroke of genius in Fulham’s case. A loan can either come off or it doesn’t.

To me Jermain Defoe would be better as an 18 month permanent deal (which won't happen). A loan player needs to hit the ground running and Defoe won't be fit for 2 months due to lack of games.
 
Improving means finding replacements for popular players who go to the bench. We badly need a striker and we need pace at both ends. Duffy is fantastic at full tilt but we don't get two consecutive 90 minutes of that. Sharp similar. We're conceding too many for defence not to be a problem. Without pushing the boat out we'll finish around 10th, doing so to an extent likely play offs. More so guaranteed play offs possibly better .
 
It's when you loom at players like calvert-Lewin, who couldn't get in our team regularly, and think, we have a youth system, but Wilder isn't giving the lads a chance, and don't come back saying he is,he played Brooks from the bench a few times, and then he anchored his place, we should have atleast 1 of the young lads coming off the bench in the later stages, but instead, we get Johnson, who, let's be honest, is dog shit!
Give the likes of Smith the chance, then maybe we wouldn't need to rely on loans so much??

I get where you're coming from Bigbed, but its a hell of an ask to play youngsters at this level who've only played Academy football. That's why Tyler Smith and about another 6 lads have gone out on loan and most of them have gone to the Conference, one at League 2 and then there's Heneghan at Blackpool, but he's not one of the youngsters. The lads out on loan are decent prospects but not like a Brooks who is good enough to go straight into the first team at 18/19. Those that are that good are the top drawer and if we did that with the lads currently out on loan I think they'g struggle, based on the fact they're doing ok/reasonable/good in some cases but at a much lower level - according to the feedback we've received from Roy from the various clubs.
 
I get where you're coming from Bigbed, but its a hell of an ask to play youngsters at this level who've only played Academy football. That's why Tyler Smith and about another 6 lads have gone out on loan and most of them have gone to the Conference one at League 2 and then there's Heneghan at Blackpool, but he's not one of the youngsters. The lads out on loan are decent prospects but not like a Brooks who is good enough to go straight into the first team at 18/19. Those that are that good are the top drawer and if we did that with the lads currently out on loan I think they'g struggle, based on the fact they're doing ok/reasonable/good in some cases but at a much lower level - according to the feedback we've received from Roy from the various clubs.
I know, but, if you don't give the lads a chance, how will you know if they're any good, plus, Smith was at Barrow, and he's been brought back for a reason.
Who would you rather have seen for 10mins v WBA, Johnson or Smith getting his first taste of a packed lane??
 
The names mentioned, such as Defoe in particular, would excite me. His age is against him, but his quality is as good as what you’ll ever see in this division.

Mitrovic was a stroke of genius in Fulham’s case. A loan can either come off or it doesn’t.

That said, Defoe seems a bit evergreen doesn't he? Think he'd rip this division a new one.
 
I know, but, if you don't give the lads a chance, how will you know if they're any good, plus, Smith was at Barrow, and he's been brought back for a reason.
Who would you rather have seen for 10mins v WBA, Johnson or Smith getting his first taste of a packed lane??

Johnson's a waste of a loan and I really feel for him. We don't play with wingers and he's no wing back. I thought we'd change formation to accommodate him for his 15 minute cameos and I think he'd be decent, but as a wing back, we may as well send him back in January.

Smith at Barrow is a big jump mate to the Championship, but maybe he'll get his chance next. He's clearly the nearest to breaking through, but I would expect he'll go out on loan again in January once we bring in other forwards who have played in the PL. If Smith excels at Barrow then next season he might get his chance more I would guess.

In my time, the players to have made it into the first team have all been internationals at under 21 level for their country, most have anyway, I'm not sure on Monty. So they were considered among the best of their age group. When I say internationals I'm referring to England (as Brooks was before he decided he wanted to be Welsh!). Norrington-Davies at Wales isn't the same as playing for England standard wise, sorry for any Welsh Blades on here, and maybe Norrington-Davies will be a first teamer but my point is those that made it had a reputation we'd heard of before they made it.
 
I know, but, if you don't give the lads a chance, how will you know if they're any good, plus, Smith was at Barrow, and he's been brought back for a reason.
Who would you rather have seen for 10mins v WBA, Johnson or Smith getting his first taste of a packed lane??
I said the same thing, and got shot down...if Utd haven’t got the money for transfers dip into the bloody academy and give them a go ;)

Edit: I’m aware that it’s not as straightforward as that:oops:
 

In my time, the players to have made it into the first team have all been internationals at under 21 level for their country, most have anyway, I'm not sure on Monty. So they were considered among the best of their age group. When I say internationals I'm referring to England (as Brooks was before he decided he wanted to be Welsh!). Norrington-Davies at Wales isn't the same as playing for England standard wise, sorry for any Welsh Blades on here, and maybe Norrington-Davies will be a first teamer but my point is those that made it had a reputation we'd heard of before they made it.

I don’t recall Stephen Quinn or Matt Lowton being involved in any international youth squads prior to their first team emergence. Not sure about Naughton, but Walker was involved in England’s U19s. DCL only got called up following his Everton move. I think youth international recognition for Jags and Tonge came after their first team debuts, not before. I think it’s harsh to suggest that the only ones that will successfully make it are those that are already involved in their countries’ youth set-ups. The flip side is that players like George Willis and others have played through the various England youth teams and ended up out of the Football League.

Brooks was incidentally called up by Wales first before his brief fling with England, but had made it clear to the Welsh set-up that he would following the Toulon tournament be choosing Wales.
 
To me loans make more sense considering the situation we are in. CW knows that our shot at promotion is more likely in the playoffs. He can get better quality players on a short term loan for the business end than if we permanently recruited. The reason is that permanent recruits have the issue of still picking up the same wage for the next few years if you don't get up (Forestieri) meaning we would struggle to bring in other recruits due to budget constraints (Wendy). If we are in the Championship next season we need to recruit quite a few players to replace the 30+'s this would be restricted if we have players on large wages that we gambled on. I think loans are therefore the right thing to do.
 
If it's loan deals, let's at least hope they are signed in early January.

But in all likelihood it'll end up being whoever's left on the shelf on the 31st

I don't think so you know. I think the fact that Wilder has said "early" in Jan suggests to me that one or more of these are lined up already. And it's entirely possible that this is the case.

I remember the New Year's Day away match at Doncaster a few years ago when Wilson was in charge. Everybody was surprised to see Chris Lucketti in our team that day. We'd no idea he was inbound but he was in the starting line up - a few hours into January. It had all been sorted before.

It's not like Wilder to say things and not deliver them. So I'm pretty confident that there will be loan signings in our team on New Year's Day.
 
I don't think so you know. I think the fact that Wilder has said "early" in Jan suggests to me that one or more of these are lined up already. And it's entirely possible that this is the case.

I remember the New Year's Day away match at Doncaster a few years ago when Wilson was in charge. Everybody was surprised to see Chris Lucketti in our team that day. We'd no idea he was inbound but he was in the starting line up - a few hours into January. It had all been sorted before.

It's not like Wilder to say things and not deliver them. So I'm pretty confident that there will be loan signings in our team on New Year's Day.
I have faith in Wilder. But if there are any loan fees involved I have almost as much faith that we'll get outbid
 
Agree 100% with Cerberus. And I'd also add that in my opinion, Chris is very happy indeed with these loans, hence he didn't seem too upset at the 'no permanents in Jan' statement.
 
Johnson's a waste of a loan and I really feel for him. We don't play with wingers and he's no wing back. I thought we'd change formation to accommodate him for his 15 minute cameos and I think he'd be decent, but as a wing back, we may as well send him back in January.

Smith at Barrow is a big jump mate to the Championship, but maybe he'll get his chance next. He's clearly the nearest to breaking through, but I would expect he'll go out on loan again in January once we bring in other forwards who have played in the PL. If Smith excels at Barrow then next season he might get his chance more I would guess.

In my time, the players to have made it into the first team have all been internationals at under 21 level for their country, most have anyway, I'm not sure on Monty. So they were considered among the best of their age group. When I say internationals I'm referring to England (as Brooks was before he decided he wanted to be Welsh!). Norrington-Davies at Wales isn't the same as playing for England standard wise, sorry for any Welsh Blades on here, and maybe Norrington-Davies will be a first teamer but my point is those that made it had a reputation we'd heard of before they made it.
On the flip side, if we get promoted, big IF, then will Smith and the like never get a chance??
Now is the time for their 10mins of fame at the end of games, winning or losing, they should be getting chances now rather than us having to depend on them later.
 
I don't think so you know. I think the fact that Wilder has said "early" in Jan suggests to me that one or more of these are lined up already. And it's entirely possible that this is the case.

I remember the New Year's Day away match at Doncaster a few years ago when Wilson was in charge. Everybody was surprised to see Chris Lucketti in our team that day. We'd no idea he was inbound but he was in the starting line up - a few hours into January. It had all been sorted before.

It's not like Wilder to say things and not deliver them. So I'm pretty confident that there will be loan signings in our team on New Year's Day.

Lucketti?

He left about 2008.
 
I remember the New Year's Day away match at Doncaster a few years ago when Wilson was in charge. Everybody was surprised to see Chris Lucketti in our team that day.

I’d have been surprised myself, given Lucketti left us about 3 years before Wilson arrived at the club.

Are you thinking of Danny Higginbotham?
 
January is notorious for poor value as far as transfers are concerned. Fergie was one who was very reluctant to make any major signings. Loans seem a sensible option in our position, when you don't know your division next season. No commitment to a fee and biggish contract for possibly another Championship season, a loan just goes back. The key is securing the player(s) that can instantly improve, like Fulham did. Interestingly our success in this probably isn't down to Wilder, but Mitchell with Knill input identifying exactly the right fit.
 
Whether we give the young players a go or not is 'in wilder we trust' territory .With DCL I'm still not sure whether we missed out other than a far larger transfer fee.
 
Another managers fault Billy misses easy chances

We need a forward in on loan to replace our current aging selection. At 36 yrs of age, JD is more than ever a fox in the box, poacher type, that needs crosses pinged into his from wide for him to attack. We currently don't play that way and if we did if would suit BS, so we wouldn't need JD. CW can play whatever tactics he likes, it's his prerogative, it doesn't alter the fact that they suit some players better than others others, or direct us to sign certain types of players over others. JD, isn't going to stretch defences nor is he physical enough to lead the line, picking a ball up on halfway and running with it into the opponents 18 yrd box or running the channels, which is what I think we need, a better version of Connor Washington.
 
Johnson's a waste of a loan and I really feel for him. We don't play with wingers and he's no wing back. I thought we'd change formation to accommodate him for his 15 minute cameos and I think he'd be decent, but as a wing back, we may as well send him back in January.

Smith at Barrow is a big jump mate to the Championship, but maybe he'll get his chance next. He's clearly the nearest to breaking through, but I would expect he'll go out on loan again in January once we bring in other forwards who have played in the PL. If Smith excels at Barrow then next season he might get his chance more I would guess.

In my time, the players to have made it into the first team have all been internationals at under 21 level for their country, most have anyway, I'm not sure on Monty. So they were considered among the best of their age group. When I say internationals I'm referring to England (as Brooks was before he decided he wanted to be Welsh!). Norrington-Davies at Wales isn't the same as playing for England standard wise, sorry for any Welsh Blades on here, and maybe Norrington-Davies will be a first teamer but my point is those that made it had a reputation we'd heard of before they made it.
That is not correct.

Mcguire, Naughton and Walker had not played any u21 football for there country when breaking into the side.


There are a huge number of young players more than capable of stepping up to there club first team.

England and Scotland squads from under 18 to 21 is a closed shop. Very few now break through if you have not been in their system at 16.
 

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