Corners!

[Bergen Blade]

Goals of late:


Brighton 1-0 a - Long kick from Henderson, Defenders nods, McBurnie runs in behind

Watford 1-1 h - Norwood pen

Man city 0-2 a

Liverpool 0-2 a

West Ham 1-0 h - Fleck picks up poor goalkeeper's pass, gives to McBurnie

Arsenal 1-1 a - Norwood corner headed down by JOC, finished by Mousset

Man City 0-1 h

Palace 1-0 a - Norwood corner, goalkeeper own goal

Bournemouth 2-1 h - Mayhem after corner, Sharp knocks it in

- Starting with our throw in routine, Stevens gets it back from Fleck, runs with it, gives it to Mousset who sets up Lundstram.

Brighton 1-1 h - Short corner half cleared, Stevens wonder shot 0


So half the goals coming after corners (4/8). Although not direct headers I think we should be happy with that. We seem to be well organised when it comes to picking up half cleared balls.

Not many multi-pass goals. I think it's something to be aware of - it's very hard to open up defences in this league and teams are now changing their tactics to combat our passing moves. Maybe we can get a bit more eager to exploit space when it's there, rather than 'accepting' the game is going to be about us opening teams up through neat passing.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Really does you make you wonder how the fuck we’ve made it to forty points and sixth place

If we played on a circular pitch we'd be champions by now!

 

[Eza Blade]

So, in the interest of evidence based discussion, I’ve done some research.
PL season 18/19
3.7% of corners resulted in a goal
Liverpool scored 14 @ 5.6%
Huddersfield scored 4 @ 2.4%
Total goals = 146 with 246 from all set pieces.
Trend over the last 10 seasons is for more short corners and diminishing returns from set pieces.
My conclusions are:
Maybe we aren’t so much worse than anyone else?
Playing for corners is a waste of time even if it gets the crowd going
Being able to finish from chances created in open play is the optimal tactic and we have work to do there
UTB

Really interesting this. So less than 4% of corners are scored from corners in premiere league. It maybe the reason we don’t put the ball in as quick as we like it delivered and fanny about with it for a bit longer when on flanks. Still in 87th minute I will be screaming “put it in fucking mixer” even though there’s not a huge chance Of scoring!!

 

[Cerberus Blade]

It’s just a discussion about a crucial area of the game for us. We create few shooting opportunities but seem to win loads of corners - given that current state of affairs, finding a way to capitalise would seem worthy of consideration? Doesn’t mean we’re shit - clearly not but we all want to see more goals and further improvement

I'm sure I've tried educating folks before on this thing about corners. Corners are not the great goal-scoring opportunity that many/most fans think they are. The stats back that up. It's maybe hard for some fans to believe it, especially, if like me, your early memories of watching a match live were filled with a huge roar of anticipation every time the team won a corner. It felt like a corner was the next best thing to a goal, and very likely to lead to a goal. But they rarely do. Not just for us, but for all teams.

The reason why is probably due to the fact that it is an expected event. Both teams know it is going to happen and can prepare for it. It is usually the situation that the attacking team will be outnumbered in the 18 yard box for a start. The defending team will also have a player in the 18 yard box who is allowed to handball it - the goalkeeper. When the ball comes across, if it reaches the 6 yard box, the best you can hope for is a bit of a melee - which usually favours the defending team.

Occasionally, the attacking team might be lucky and get the first header on it to send it goal-wards, but that would have to be rather slack defending to allow that to happen. A headed goal on the second touch is more likely. Because in this situation the aim and trajectory of the ball has changed and we are now in an "unexpected event" situation. This is why our best chances of scoring from a corner are if we either put it short to a man on the front post to flick it on backwards across goal, or, we hit it long to a man on the back post to head it forwards back across goal. We don't commonly try either of these tactics. If we did, I think we'd have more success from corners. But I'm not a football coach, I'm just a bloke who gets a bit frustrated and tries to find fault with something when we don't win a game I feel we should have.

 

[Revolution]

Goals of late:


Brighton 1-0 a - Long kick from Henderson, Defenders nods, McBurnie runs in behind

Watford 1-1 h - Norwood pen

Man city 0-2 a

Liverpool 0-2 a

West Ham 1-0 h - Fleck picks up poor goalkeeper's pass, gives to McBurnie

Arsenal 1-1 a - Norwood corner headed down by JOC, finished by Mousset

Man City 0-1 h

Palace 1-0 a - Norwood corner, goalkeeper own goal

Bournemouth 2-1 h - Mayhem after corner, Sharp knocks it in

- Starting with our throw in routine, Stevens gets it back from Fleck, runs with it, gives it to Mousset who sets up Lundstram.

Brighton 1-1 h - Short corner half cleared, Stevens wonder shot 0


So half the goals coming after corners (4/8). Although not direct headers I think we should be happy with that. We seem to be well organised when it comes to picking up half cleared balls.

Not many multi-pass goals. I think it's something to be aware of - it's very hard to open up defences in this league and teams are now changing their tactics to combat our passing moves. Maybe we can get a bit more eager to exploit space when it's there, rather than 'accepting' the game is going to be about us opening teams up through neat passing.

You've described the wrong goal against Arsenal - that was the home goal. Fleck scored at the Emirates after Robinson's cross was flicked on by Sharp/an Arsenal defender.

 

[TAMUS]

What about long throws ? { whats Greg Halford/Leigh Bromby doing nowadays ] other teams use them well , but late on in a match when the crowd is roused , they make defenders nervous .

 

[Akinbiyi]

Mourinho once said he couldn’t understand why English fans get some excited about corners because it’s something like 2% of corners end up in goals statistically. Rings true to this day.

 

[tincan]

The PL is all about possession, if a team has possession they won't concede. A corner is an opportunity to lose possession. So lumping it to Brightons giants is not a good tactic.The short corner tikitaka should suit us better.

 

[BushBlade]

I think it’s similar with free-kicks. It seems like every team we come up against has a free-kick specialist who it feels like is odds-on to score against us; I don’t think we’ve had a player like this for a long time, and I used to think I t would seem like another step forward for us to get one in the side.
However, looking into it a bit more, most free-kick takers rarely score. I think Mahrez and Wilson have scored more than anyone else in the premier league this season at 2. The most anyone’s ever got in a premier league season is 5 (Beckham I think nearly 20 years ago).
Overall, 12 clubs have scored a direct free-kick this season, so 8 haven’t.
There’s been 16 goals from direct free-kicks out of 730, so about 2% of goals scored have come this way.

So on second thoughts, maybe having a free-kick specialist wouldn’t really add that much to the team after all. We might get a couple of extra goals a season, which might (or might not) mean 2 or 3+ points. But I’ve come round to thinking it’s not that big an issue. Most direct free-kicks just don’t end up as goals.

What you need is a good player who’s also good at free kicks but they tend to be quite expensive.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I'm sure I've tried educating folks before on this thing about corners. Corners are not the great goal-scoring opportunity that many/most fans think they are. The stats back that up. It's maybe hard for some fans to believe it, especially, if like me, your early memories of watching a match live were filled with a huge roar of anticipation every time the team won a corner. It felt like a corner was the next best thing to a goal, and very likely to lead to a goal. But they rarely do. Not just for us, but for all teams.

The reason why is probably due to the fact that it is an expected event. Both teams know it is going to happen and can prepare for it. It is usually the situation that the attacking team will be outnumbered in the 18 yard box for a start. The defending team will also have a player in the 18 yard box who is allowed to handball it - the goalkeeper. When the ball comes across, if it reaches the 6 yard box, the best you can hope for is a bit of a melee - which usually favours the defending team.

Occasionally, the attacking team might be lucky and get the first header on it to send it goal-wards, but that would have to be rather slack defending to allow that to happen. A headed goal on the second touch is more likely. Because in this situation the aim and trajectory of the ball has changed and we are now in an "unexpected event" situation. This is why our best chances of scoring from a corner are if we either put it short to a man on the front post to flick it on backwards across goal, or, we hit it long to a man on the back post to head it forwards back across goal. We don't commonly try either of these tactics. If we did, I think we'd have more success from corners. But I'm not a football coach, I'm just a bloke who gets a bit frustrated and tries to find fault with something when we don't win a game I feel we should have.

Hardly any clubs try the “flick on at the near post” routine now and I don’t know why?

I think it should at least be one of the options we use for a bit of variety.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Hardly any clubs try the “flick on at the near post” routine now and I don’t know why?

I think it should at least be one of the options we use for a bit of variety.

Stan the man and Morgs spring to mind. They were good at it an’all.

 

[CornwallBlade]

I'm sure I've tried educating folks before on this thing about corners. Corners are not the great goal-scoring opportunity that many/most fans think they are. The stats back that up. It's maybe hard for some fans to believe it, especially, if like me, your early memories of watching a match live were filled with a huge roar of anticipation every time the team won a corner. It felt like a corner was the next best thing to a goal, and very likely to lead to a goal. But they rarely do. Not just for us, but for all teams.

The reason why is probably due to the fact that it is an expected event. Both teams know it is going to happen and can prepare for it. It is usually the situation that the attacking team will be outnumbered in the 18 yard box for a start. The defending team will also have a player in the 18 yard box who is allowed to handball it - the goalkeeper. When the ball comes across, if it reaches the 6 yard box, the best you can hope for is a bit of a melee - which usually favours the defending team.

Occasionally, the attacking team might be lucky and get the first header on it to send it goal-wards, but that would have to be rather slack defending to allow that to happen. A headed goal on the second touch is more likely. Because in this situation the aim and trajectory of the ball has changed and we are now in an "unexpected event" situation. This is why our best chances of scoring from a corner are if we either put it short to a man on the front post to flick it on backwards across goal, or, we hit it long to a man on the back post to head it forwards back across goal. We don't commonly try either of these tactics. If we did, I think we'd have more success from corners. But I'm not a football coach, I'm just a bloke who gets a bit frustrated and tries to find fault with something when we don't win a game I feel we should have.

Brilliant analysis my friend

 

[CornwallBlade]

The PL is all about possession, if a team has possession they won't concede. A corner is an opportunity to lose possession. So lumping it to Brightons giants is not a good tactic.The short corner tikitaka should suit us better.

Actually, great point this. Bit off topic but I’m a qualified hockey coach and we used to practice using an opposing short corner (equivalent of a corner in footy) as a great goal scoring opportunity for the defending team. Reason? All their attack and midfield were packed into the opposition goal area so loads of space to break and attack. Leicester, I think, do this really well? So, fuck winning corners - we should concede them freely, dupe the opposition defenders into our box, get Mousse on his bike and problem solved

 

[Bladesman]

Has to be said our delivery from corners has been pretty poor during the restart.

 

[From the pig end]

Norwood's whip and dip beautifully but 5 yards too long!
Flecks were no better to be fair.

 

[N20 Blade]

Brilliant analysis my friend

Chris Anderson covers this in his excellent book 'The Numbers Game', which I recommend, especially, to anyone who bets on total goals, btts, over/under, etc. as a money saving/making investment.

He devotes a chapter to the British phenomena of 'celebrating corners being awarded', when few fans elsewhere in the world do. Statistically speaking, CornwallBlade, as you say, winning a corner is just as likely to result in conceding a goal, during the next phase of play, as it is in scoring yourself. I've seen your subsequent post and though tongue in cheek, it's logical. Indeed, during his early years in the UK, Mourinho exploited this well, by leaving 2-3 attacking players at the halfway line and he never considered having a corner as a 'likely' goal-scoring opportunity. Other foreign coaches likewise including Benitez, Ancelotti, although at City Pep has arguably underestimated it too much.

Under Bassett, I always thought we were dangerous from corners but then looking at some of the stats, I realised that the sheer volume we won virtually guaranteed a proportion of goals would be scored (and conceded). By comparison, we conceded many more goals proportionately, on the break from our own corners being cleared, WHU at a home a prime example. Once again your hockey analogy rings true.

By comparison, goals scored from free kicks outside the area, are more profitable for the most skilled players and justifies the practice, as do clever free kick variations, e.g. ours away to scunthrorpe, charlton, for us in league one. More training ground work here is worth it surely.

If we're trying to maximise dead ball situations, free kicks near the penalty box, are perhaps the way forward, especially given Norwood's potential in these delivery areas. Given how few goals we score from open play, we have to seize any opportunity professionally that we can artificially conjur.

 

[VictoryBlade]

Gerrit int mixer

 

[CornwallBlade]

Chris Anderson covers this in his excellent book 'The Numbers Game', which I recommend, especially, to anyone who bets on total goals, btts, over/under, etc. as a money saving/making investment.

He devotes a chapter to the British phenomena of 'celebrating corners being awarded', when few fans elsewhere in the world do. Statistically speaking, CornwallBlade, as you say, winning a corner is just as likely to result in conceding a goal, during the next phase of play, as it is in scoring yourself. I've seen your subsequent post and though tongue in cheek, it's logical. Indeed, during his early years in the UK, Mourinho exploited this well, by leaving 2-3 attacking players at the halfway line and he never considered having a corner as a 'likely' goal-scoring opportunity. Other foreign coaches likewise including Benitez, Ancelotti, although at City Pep has arguably underestimated it too much.

Under Bassett, I always thought we were dangerous from corners but then looking at some of the stats, I realised that the sheer volume we won virtually guaranteed a proportion of goals would be scored (and conceded). By comparison, we conceded many more goals proportionately, on the break from our own corners being cleared, WHU at a home a prime example. Once again your hockey analogy rings true.

By comparison, goals scored from free kicks outside the area, are more profitable for the most skilled players and justifies the practice, as do clever free kick variations, e.g. ours away to scunthrorpe, charlton, for us in league one. More training ground work here is worth it surely.

If we're trying to maximise dead ball situations, free kicks near the penalty box, are perhaps the way forward, especially given Norwood's potential in these delivery areas. Given how few goals we score from open play, we have to seize any opportunity professionally that we can artificially conjur.

Spot on. One reason that Billy is still worth his place is that he probably wins more free kicks around the box than the rest of the forwards put together. He’s a master at getting defenders to commit silly fouls when he has no other options.

 

[N20 Blade]

Gerrit int mixer

Another recommendation -
The Mixer: The Story of Premier League Tactics, from Route One to False Nines
Book by Michael Cox
One of the first points made is the impact of the back pass rule on goalkeepers and defences with a certain Mr Tracey sighted as as an example of great old school but terrible new school keeper.

 

[CoatesyBlade]

That’s what I’m talking about Egan lad... corner comes in, leap above, bullet header! Pick that out!
First of many with any luck!

 

[Bladesman]