What does Plan B look like?

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Champagneblade

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Suppose we look at Forest and Everton throwing themselves into a relegation fight and we decide now is the time to strike.

It might mean over-reaching. It might hasten the departure of a few in the summer.

So what does it look like if we have a go and fall short?

To me, it might force revolution over evolution.

Yes we may need to sell players but also assuming we are unsuccessful we will also want to get a cost base under control.

Goalkeeper - Wes is still a reasonable Championship keeper but it does feel, despite his save of the month, that is his ceiling. Neither Davo, nor Amissah is really pushing to be retained. Likewise there are a number of keepers I’d take before Wes. Is Wes going to be looking for a deal, as a current PL player, that doesn’t reflect his current or future value to us? I think we can completely revisit this department any time really And given the number of loans, Chris might fancy that route again.

Defence - as the theme of this thread, overreaching and falling short might mean some tough decisions. Maybe George leaves in a free to a Greek club. Ordinarily I’d be fine for him to stay but he’s missed a few games now and you’ve got Seriki, Sachdev, possibly this Irish lad. Not all going to remain without a chance to play. Perhaps we save here and Bogle Carrie’s on?

On the left, we seem well placed when fit in terms of age of Norrington-Davies and Trusty and we also have Boyes and Buyabu. I’m expecting the loans to go back but maybe also Ozzy drops out and perhaps, if RND holds up enough, Lowe’s continual fitness issues see us letting him also go?

If we are looking at 4-3-3 for now, then I can see Anel being sacrificed as I don’t see him as a good enough defender in a 2. Both Robbo and Trusty excelled at that level last season. If Anel went then you’d expect a right sided stopper like Mepham to come in. With Frecklington in the mix it might leave you with one more spot. Does Egan make it with two seniors missing out or would it be Mepham and Robbo, supported by Trusty and a big wage save on Egan and perhaps an up and comer brought in? Looks like end of the line for Bash too.

Midfield -If Brooks can carry on progressing in the team, and the inevitable clamour for Arblaster to feature, does that then finally mean that Fleck and Norwood move on where there wages probably exceed their contribution? Souza might not fancy it but Hamer, Souza supplemented by Brooks, Arblaster and Davies plus possibly Slimane after time to settle. That’s notwithstanding the odd loan here and perhaps Wilder not fancying Slimane. If Coulibaly remains I’ll eat my hat.

Forwards - at the top of the pitch I can see is aiming for impressive loan signings. But perhaps having a tilt now means that Oli Mac’s wages are hard to meet, especially as we struggle to keep him for though I’ve not minded his recent form. Archer goes and unless he wants a return on loan, so does Brereton-Diaz and also McAtee. So all change. Or is it?

Osula is learning the hard way. Maybe he grasps the nettle? Jebbo seems uncertain but Wilder seems to want him to stay. Does he see McBurnie leave and himself get the game time he craves? If you’re 4-3-3 can be 4-3-1-2 then these two could pair up. You’ll also be having Brewster in contract and no doubt hoping Hackford, One and Marsh breaking to the bench. It does seem to leave at least one more senior option needed.

Going for it now might mean all those big earners have to go. How do you feel about the below being left and supplementing with a few loans and a bit of wheeling and dealing?

G - Wes / TBC or TBC x 2

D - Bogle, Sachdev / Seriki, Norrington-Davies, Boyes / Buyabu
Mepham(?), Robinson, Trusty, Frecklington/ TBC

M - Hamer, Davies, Brooks, Arblaster, Slimane / TBC x2

F - Osula, Jebbison, Brewster, TBC, Hackford, One, Marsh

It would mean losing Wes, Baldock, Basham, Egan, Lowe, Osborn, Fleck, Norwood, McBurnie plus the likes of Anel and Archer and perhaps Souza as well as loans.

Does it leave you thinking “give it a go?” Or “take the R and be thankful it’s not a double R!”
 
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Suppose we look at Forest and Everton throwing themselves into a relegation fight and we decide now is the time to strike.

It might mean over-reaching. It might hasten the departure of a few in the summer.

So what does it look like if we have a go and fall short?

To me, it might force revolution over evolution.

Yes we may need to sell players but also assuming we are unsuccessful we will also want to get a cost base under control.

Goalkeeper - Wes is still a reasonable Championship keeper but it does feel, despite his save of the month, that is his ceiling. Neither Davo, nor Amissah is really pushing to be retained. Likewise there are a number of keepers I’d take before Wes. Is Wes going to be looking for a deal, as a current PL player, that doesn’t reflect his current or future value to us? I think we can completely revisit this department any time really And given the number of loans, Chris might fancy that route again.

Defence - as the theme of this thread, overreaching and falling short might mean some tough decisions. Maybe George leaves in a free to a Greek club. Ordinarily I’d be fine for him to stay but he’s missed a few games now and you’ve got Seriki, Sachdev, possibly this Irish lad. Not all going to remain without a chance to play. Perhaps we save here and Bogle Carrie’s on?

On the left, we seem well placed when fit in terms of age of Norrington-Davies and Trusty and we also have Boyes and Buyabu. I’m expecting the loans to go back but maybe also Ozzy drops out and perhaps, if RND holds up enough, Lowe’s continual fitness issues see us letting him also go?

If we are looking at 4-3-3 for now, then I can see Anel being sacrificed as I don’t see him as a good enough defender in a 2. Both Robbo and Trusty excelled at that level last season. If Anel went then you’d expect a right sided stopper like Mepham to come in. With Frecklington in the mix it might leave you with one more spot. Does Egan make it with two seniors missing out or would it be Mepham and Robbo, supported by Trusty and a big wage save on Egan and perhaps an up and comer brought in? Looks like end of the line for Bash too.

Midfield -If Brooks can carry on progressing in the team, and the inevitable clamour for Arblaster to feature, does that then finally mean that Fleck and Norwood move on where there wages probably exceed their contribution? Souza might not fancy it but Hamer, Souza supplemented by Brooks, Arblaster and Davies plus possibly Slimane after time to settle. That’s notwithstanding the odd loan here and perhaps Wilder not fancying Slimane. If Coulibaly remains I’ll eat my hat.

Forwards - at the top of the pitch I can see is aiming for impressive loan signings. But perhaps having a tilt now means that Oli Mac’s wages are hard to meet, especially as we struggle to keep him for though I’ve not minded his recent form. Archer goes and unless he wants a return on loan, so does Brereton-Diaz and also McAtee. So all change. Or is it?

Osula is learning the hard way. Maybe he grasps the nettle? Jebbo seems uncertain but Wilder seems to want him to stay. Does he see McBurnie leave and himself get the game time he craves? If you’re 4-3-3 can be 4-3-1-2 then these two could pair up. You’ll also be having Brewster in contract and no doubt hoping Hackford, One and Marsh breaking to the bench. It does seem to leave at least one more senior option needed.

Going for it now might mean all those big earners have to go. How do you feel about the below being left and supplementing with a few loans and a bit of wheeling and dealing?

G - Wes / TBC or TBC x 2

D - Bogle, Sachdev / Seriki, Norrington-Davies, Boyes / Buyabu
Mepham(?), Robinson, Trusty, Frecklington/ TBC

M - Hamer, Davies, Brooks, Arblaster, Slimane / TBC x2

F - Osula, Jebbison, Brewster, TBC, Hackford, One, Marsh

It would mean losing Wes, Baldock, Basham, Egan, Lowe, Osborn, Fleck, Norwood, McBurnie plus the likes of Anel and Archer and perhaps Souza as well as loans.

Does it leave you thinking “give it a go?” Or “take the R and be thankful it’s not a double R!”
If that is Plan B then I shudder to think how complex C is !
 
For me, we're not going to be looking at getting promoted again. I actually think it's unrealistic given the turnaround we face under the budget constraints. I'd be happy just to see us put together a competitive team and finish top half
 
I’m wasting my team with you lot.

I’ve come for an intelligent discussion and I’ve clearly come to either the wrong place or at the wrong time!

😂
 
I’m wasting my team with you lot.

I’ve come for an intelligent discussion and I’ve clearly come to either the wrong place or at the wrong time!

😂
A bit of column A.... a bit of column B

But in all seriousness, I'm finding there are just so many variables that we are all totally ignorant of, it's almost impossible to try and plot any route through it.

Who has no intention of signing?
Who's demands are totally unrealistic?
Who wants to buy into the rebuild, even if it's going to take a couple of years?
What truly is the budget and the Prince's commitment if we go down?
Is Wilder staying throughout the rebuild?
 
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Suppose we look at Forest and Everton throwing themselves into a relegation fight and we decide now is the time to strike.

It might mean over-reaching. It might hasten the departure of a few in the summer.

So what does it look like if we have a go and fall short?

To me, it might force revolution over evolution.

Yes we may need to sell players but also assuming we are unsuccessful we will also want to get a cost base under control.

Goalkeeper - Wes is still a reasonable Championship keeper but it does feel, despite his save of the month, that is his ceiling. Neither Davo, nor Amissah is really pushing to be retained. Likewise there are a number of keepers I’d take before Wes. Is Wes going to be looking for a deal, as a current PL player, that doesn’t reflect his current or future value to us? I think we can completely revisit this department any time really And given the number of loans, Chris might fancy that route again.

Defence - as the theme of this thread, overreaching and falling short might mean some tough decisions. Maybe George leaves in a free to a Greek club. Ordinarily I’d be fine for him to stay but he’s missed a few games now and you’ve got Seriki, Sachdev, possibly this Irish lad. Not all going to remain without a chance to play. Perhaps we save here and Bogle Carrie’s on?

On the left, we seem well placed when fit in terms of age of Norrington-Davies and Trusty and we also have Boyes and Buyabu. I’m expecting the loans to go back but maybe also Ozzy drops out and perhaps, if RND holds up enough, Lowe’s continual fitness issues see us letting him also go?

If we are looking at 4-3-3 for now, then I can see Anel being sacrificed as I don’t see him as a good enough defender in a 2. Both Robbo and Trusty excelled at that level last season. If Anel went then you’d expect a right sided stopper like Mepham to come in. With Frecklington in the mix it might leave you with one more spot. Does Egan make it with two seniors missing out or would it be Mepham and Robbo, supported by Trusty and a big wage save on Egan and perhaps an up and comer brought in? Looks like end of the line for Bash too.

Midfield -If Brooks can carry on progressing in the team, and the inevitable clamour for Arblaster to feature, does that then finally mean that Fleck and Norwood move on where there wages probably exceed their contribution? Souza might not fancy it but Hamer, Souza supplemented by Brooks, Arblaster and Davies plus possibly Slimane after time to settle. That’s notwithstanding the odd loan here and perhaps Wilder not fancying Slimane. If Coulibaly remains I’ll eat my hat.

Forwards - at the top of the pitch I can see is aiming for impressive loan signings. But perhaps having a tilt now means that Oli Mac’s wages are hard to meet, especially as we struggle to keep him for though I’ve not minded his recent form. Archer goes and unless he wants a return on loan, so does Brereton-Diaz and also McAtee. So all change. Or is it?

Osula is learning the hard way. Maybe he grasps the nettle? Jebbo seems uncertain but Wilder seems to want him to stay. Does he see McBurnie leave and himself get the game time he craves? If you’re 4-3-3 can be 4-3-1-2 then these two could pair up. You’ll also be having Brewster in contract and no doubt hoping Hackford, One and Marsh breaking to the bench. It does seem to leave at least one more senior option needed.

Going for it now might mean all those big earners have to go. How do you feel about the below being left and supplementing with a few loans and a bit of wheeling and dealing?

G - Wes / TBC or TBC x 2

D - Bogle, Sachdev / Seriki, Norrington-Davies, Boyes / Buyabu
Mepham(?), Robinson, Trusty, Frecklington/ TBC

M - Hamer, Davies, Brooks, Arblaster, Slimane / TBC x2

F - Osula, Jebbison, Brewster, TBC, Hackford, One, Marsh

It would mean losing Wes, Baldock, Basham, Egan, Lowe, Osborn, Fleck, Norwood, McBurnie plus the likes of Anel and Archer and perhaps Souza as well as loans.

Does it leave you thinking “give it a go?” Or “take the R and be thankful it’s not a double R!”
It's the same as Plan A but with Fleck.
 

I’m wasting my team with you lot.

I’ve come for an intelligent discussion and I’ve clearly come to either the wrong place or at the wrong time!

😂
In all seriousness it's not at all clear what you're asking here.
 
I’m wasting my team with you lot.

I’ve come for an intelligent discussion and I’ve clearly come to either the wrong place or at the wrong time!

😂

It's hard to take a Plan B serious when plan A was such a shambles.

You may as well pick a suggestion from a hat and that'll be Plan B.

In all seriousness tho, I think Wilder is planning for Championship now and survival is almost out the window.

Think next seasons squad will be built around around the few players still contracted (Robbo, Trusty etc, alot of academy players, and a few wiley loan signings.

Next season looks very much like a consolidation season, rather than a try and get promoted again season.
 
I think you are all talking bollocks, my mate bladeinexile told me 😉.
 
Admire your ambition mate, but it doesn't fit in with the PA one sadly.
Although agreed with the principle of the consolidation season ahead you never know what that might look like. Our last one was a semi final playoff defeat within a whisker of more wasted Wembley money. But if we can be defensively solid and get lucky with injuries it all is down to who is there next season too. Hull have splashed the cash a bit if they don’t get in the play offs at least might be problems there, same with Sunderland. There still be at least 4 quality teams possibly 5 with the 3 that go down, potentially Leeds or Southampton and then you have the “best of the rest” Cardiff, Hull, Sunderland and West Brom with still some tricky fixtures in there like Norwich
 
I wasn't sure where to post this, but it was going round my head while I was going nowhere on the M62.

Negatives aside, from how the mismanagement of contracts to our approach to this season in the transfer market, and accepting everything could be as bad as the naysayers say, there are some greenshoots.

As I mentioned above if Wilder is going to be the long term option, he's looking at a total ground up rebuild, not hugely dis-similar to that first time he joined.
Picking up a squad in need of a huge overhaul and transition from established old guard to a new side who can operate at the top of the Championship/lower end of the Premier league. First things first though, we need to establish a base to build from and give the team some stability.
Last time we were in L1, so we're operating at a higher level now, but it's essentially the same position. Huge rebuild required, top end wage bill for the division, lots of gaps in the squad, limited transfer funds.

The positives this time is that he isn't stuck with the high earners, they're out of contract should he decide they aren't part of the future. That's a quick win for a rebuild.
Sure, he may want some of them to stay and they might not be interested, but this time he's got a considerably easier way of clearing the decks to build what he wants.
He also had a minimal transfer budget last time, but no real saleable assets that would make his life so much easier.
This time we do have saleable assets in the likes of Anel that help kick off the Churn positively and quickly.
He also has a much stronger youth setup to rely on this time, which just wasn't there in league one, certainly not one which could provide half a dozen options that could feasibly perform at the level required.

So for me the only questions are; is Wilder here to complete the rebuild, or he is only looking short term, and has he still got some of that magic from last time and able to identify under valued players who's ceilings align with our aims?
If those are both yes, then that's the Plan B that offers the most optimism. Huge turnover of players due to contract mismanagement, but thanks to the parachute payments more money comparatively than last time for wages, more for transfers, easier to manage the ongoing wage bill, and easier to start building exactly the team you want to take us back up within the next few years.
He just needs to get the right players in, at the right prices and keep the missteps to a minimum, particularly in the first season. Easy right?
 

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