Loan System

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bakeblade

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Watching a very impressive Burnley last night, I noticed they had 4 loan players in their starting 11. The loan system can be very effective (Forest last season), but it's something we never seem to exploit fully.
3 of their 5 loans, Harwood-Bellis, Maatsen, Tella, are playing just about every game and the other 2 have featured. Only Doyle for us is really contributing which follows a similar pattern to previous seasons. We seem to be well thought of as a loanee club, but never seem to make full use of it.
 

bakeblade said:
Watching a very impressive Burnley last night, I noticed they had 4 loan players in their starting 11. The loan system can be very effective (Forest last season), but it's something we never seem to exploit fully.
3 of their 5 loans, Harwood-Bellis, Maatsen, Tella, are playing just about every game and the other 2 have featured. Only Doyle for us is really contributing which follows a similar pattern to previous seasons. We seem to be well thought of as a loanee club, but never seem to make full use of it.
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To be fair, start of the season we'd all have had Clark, Doyle and one of Khadra/McAtee starting every week.

Personally I don't like a squad full of loans, where the players are either not arsed or perform well and dont play again next season.(Henderson and MGW did well and went back to their parents clubs.)
 
bakeblade said:
Watching a very impressive Burnley last night, I noticed they had 4 loan players in their starting 11. The loan system can be very effective (Forest last season), but it's something we never seem to exploit fully.
3 of their 5 loans, Harwood-Bellis, Maatsen, Tella, are playing just about every game and the other 2 have featured. Only Doyle for us is really contributing which follows a similar pattern to previous seasons. We seem to be well thought of as a loanee club, but never seem to make full use of it.
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Khadra, good impact player.
Doyle, probable starter every week.
McAtee will become starter I'm sure, and booted it in the onion bag last week.

Seem to be using it ok.
 
Sounds like we’re paying around £15-20k pw for Clark who’s played 2 games. He should have been a big player for us.

McAtee isn’t ready for regular first team football

Doyle has been very good

Khadra was the player I was most excited to sign & has been useless. I don’t buy into that he’s not been given time comments either
 
Millhousesblade1889 said:
Sounds like we’re paying around £15-20k pw for Clark who’s played 2 games. He should have been a big player for us.

McAtee isn’t ready for regular first team football

Doyle has been very good

Khadra was the player I was most excited to sign & has been useless. I don’t buy into that he’s not been given time comments either
Click to expand...

£13k. 1/3 of £40k p/wk.
 
I think there are two points here.

1. We went bigger in the loan system better last season (MGW, Olsen starting) and Hourihane involved regularly. You would have expected Davies to start.
2. I believe we expected to sell Berge, We also obviously started the season really well. So, you're not going to drop players for Doyle (who got injured in pre-season) and McAtee and Khadra (who had no pre-season gametime). By the time they were all match fit we were winning games. Clark is obviously bad luck.

I've questioned the signing of McAtee and Khadra in a team where we're playing 3 CMs and neither looks comfortable in that position. Obviously Ndiaye has been great but I'd be shocked if the plan was to play McBurnie next to Khadra or McAtee ahead of Brewster and Sharp. Berge and Coulibally being out is a blow but it never looked like Hecky fancied the latter.

We'd kill for a starting energetic CM right now

But then again, if Ndiaye was injured early doors they'd both be playing much more.
 
I think our use of the loan market was pretty good this Summer, at least - in theory.

Ciaran Clark was a certain starter at LCB. The one game he did play there was the strongest we've looked, defensively, all season. Anel, Egan and Clark dominated a strong Millwall side on the deck and in the air. Massive shame his body hasn't been up to it.

Tommy Doyle has dropped straight into our starting XI and not looked out of place. Decent on the ball, not as decent without it. A young player with room and, due to injuries, a platform to keep improving.

Reda Khadra - I don't think he was ever brought in under the "certain starter" banner, as we have Berge and Ndiaye in those positions. However, he has pace and offers something different. He's underperformed, but theory behind it is spot on. He should be our go-to substitute when the game is wide open and we need some counter-attacking threat.

James McAtee has great feet and is good in tight areas. In theory, he should be the guy to open up teams that sit in deep and compact at the Lane. He's turned out to be a bit of a Ben Woodburn mk.II so far though and only shown what he can do in flashes. A relatively cheap loan-deal though you'd have thought with little risk and potentially a lot of upside.

Ideally, we'd have got Hamza Choudhury at DCM or a Keinan Davis up front. Or the guys at Burnley that you mentioned. However, I do think we had the right idea with a lot of our signings. It's just a shame that injuries, or under-performance have meant we've fallen short.
 
CaptainMorgans said:
I think our use of the loan market was pretty good this Summer, at least - in theory.

Ciaran Clark was a certain starter at LCB. The one game he did play there was the strongest we've looked, defensively, all season. Anel, Egan and Clark dominated a strong Millwall side on the deck and in the air. Massive shame his body hasn't been up to it.

Tommy Doyle has dropped straight into our starting XI and not looked out of place. Decent on the ball, not as decent without it. A young player with room and, due to injuries, a platform to keep improving.

Reda Khadra - I don't think he was ever brought in under the "certain starter" banner, as we have Berge and Ndiaye in those positions. However, he has pace and offers something different. He's underperformed, but theory behind it is spot on. He should be our go-to substitute when the game is wide open and we need some counter-attacking threat.

James McAtee has great feet and is good in tight areas. In theory, he should be the guy to open up teams that sit in deep and compact at the Lane. He's turned out to be a bit of a Ben Woodburn mk.II so far though and only shown what he can do in flashes. A relatively cheap loan-deal though you'd have thought with little risk and potentially a lot of upside.

Ideally, we'd have got Hamza Choudhury at DCM or a Keinan Davis up front. Or the guys at Burnley that you mentioned. However, I do think we had the right idea with a lot of our signings. It's just a shame that injuries, or under-performance have meant we've fallen short.
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I don't think an injury prone, ageing centre back and a young rookie who hadn't played any league games was particularly good business.
Particularly for a club going for promotion.
Khadras a strange one, we were all excited to get him, but some reason it hasn't yet worked out.
 
bakeblade said:
I don't think an injury prone, ageing centre back and a young rookie who hadn't played any league games was particularly good business.
Particularly for a club going for promotion.
Khadras a strange one, we were all excited to get him, but some reason it hasn't yet worked out.
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The problem is the loaning club is only going to loan out injury prone older players (like Clark) or relatively unproven players like McAtee.
They will be keeping the fit 20-28 year olds in their own squads.
You have to have a lot of "pull" like Kompany does (from stellar Man City playing career), or Steve Cooper did (based on Eng U21 campaign) to get decent median aged starting age loanees from Premie League clubs.
 
Millhousesblade1889 said:
Sounds like we’re paying around £15-20k pw for Clark who’s played 2 games. He should have been a big player for us.

McAtee isn’t ready for regular first team football

Doyle has been very good

Khadra was the player I was most excited to sign & has been useless. I don’t buy into that he’s not been given time comments either
Click to expand...
He’s not been given time because he’s been rubbish. He’s not been rubbish because he’s not been given time.
 
Yeah because Morgan gibbs white was terrible use of the loan system

As was Dean henderson

Nobody has used it better than us IMO

Great when you have a prince with long pockets but short arms
 
Millhousesblade1889 said:
Sounds like we’re paying around £15-20k pw for Clark who’s played 2 games. He should have been a big player for us.

McAtee isn’t ready for regular first team football

Doyle has been very good

Khadra was the player I was most excited to sign & has been useless. I don’t buy into that he’s not been given time comments either
Click to expand...
Agree with most of that.

Khadra was excellent when he came on against QPR, playing on the right wing and putting in a succession of well flighted, pacy crosses which we didn`t exploit.

He was brought on against Blackpool to do the same, but Blackpool, having done their homework, immediately subbed their left back for a more defensively competent player who prevented Khadra from putting a single cross in.
 

Rudders said:
The problem is the loaning club is only going to loan out injury prone older players (like Clark) or relatively unproven players like McAtee.
They will be keeping the fit 20-28 year olds in their own squads.
You have to have a lot of "pull" like Kompany does (from stellar Man City playing career), or Steve Cooper did (based on Eng U21 campaign) to get decent median aged starting age loanees from Premie League clubs.
Click to expand...
FallowfieldBlade said:
Yeah because Morgan gibbs white was terrible use of the loan system

As was Dean henderson

Nobody has used it better than us IMO

Great when you have a prince with long pockets but short arms
Click to expand...
That was exactly my point, we seem to get 1 really good loan per season and 3 or 4 poor ones
 
bakeblade said:
That was exactly my point, we seem to get 1 really good loan per season and 3 or 4 poor ones
Click to expand...
Quite.

Last season we had:

MGW, who was fantastic
Ben Davies, who was mediocre mostly and constantly missing out with little niggles
Conor "just wide" Hourihane, whose goalscoring midfield form from previous years completely deserted him and who was not an upgrade on what we had
Robin Olsen, who came with a big reputation and didn't have a single good game that sticks in the memory
Charlie Goode, who got sent off in his second game and got injured in training
Filip Uremovic, which was an innovative deal and he did well twice and badly once

A mixed bag to say the least aside from MGW.

I know that it's too much to ask to do a Forest and sign five loanees who all play great and are first team regulars, but it surely isn't too much to ask to have more than one of the loanees (Doyle so far, and even he's been injured) contribute something regularly?
 
The weird thing about forest's 5 loaness was, only really Garner was rated much. The other four had just been championship players stuck at a club.
 
FallowfieldBlade said:
Great when you have a prince with long pockets but short arms
Click to expand...

How much did HRH chip in when we were in the 3rd division for all those years, all very well to have long pockets but not much use when they are empty.
 
Not what I think, but that was essentially just covering losses.
Maybe 5 million between HRH and McC.
 


Saw this online today and thought it interesting.

Loans are a very viable way to get lads to play and really develop and increase the value of our assets or at the least what they can do.

We’ve seen the likes of

Jebbo (burton) / rnd (Luton) really progress on loan but also

Couple of poor loans to Belgium, osula (not getting game time at derby) and seems like it wasn’t the best idea to have people playing for sides that can’t buy a win like Rochdale / forest green.

I do think that we should be more discerning on where we send out young lands. Especially ones we’ve high hopes for (alblaster, osula, jebbo etc) as it could pay dividends. And imo will only be more important if we stay in the PL and have more resources invested in our squad players
 
Bladeinleeds said:


Saw this online today and thought it interesting.

Loans are a very viable way to get lads to play and really develop and increase the value of our assets or at the least what they can do.

We’ve seen the likes of

Jebbo (burton) / rnd (Luton) really progress on loan but also

Couple of poor loans to Belgium, osula (not getting game time at derby) and seems like it wasn’t the best idea to have people playing for sides that can’t buy a win like Rochdale / forest green.

I do think that we should be more discerning on where we send out young lands. Especially ones we’ve high hopes for (alblaster, osula, jebbo etc) as it could pay dividends. And imo will only be more important if we stay in the PL and have more resources invested in our squad players
Click to expand...

Good to see we’ve created this role if it wasn’t one we already had. I think Chelsea were the first to employ to this role (Petr Cech?) to look after their army of loan players but we have so many out on loan now this could really help look after our players.

As you mentioned with Seriki, you wonder whether a Loan Manager at the time would have helped him whilst stuck out in Belgium.
 
Star reporting following the Geneva meeting, that the heavy focus is on loans and freebies, but there will be some money for permanent acquisitions

Nothing we didn’t already suspect

www.thestar.co.uk

Details of Sheffield United's summer recruitment plans emerge following top level meeting in Switzerland

Sheffield United manager Paul Heckingbottom is set to focus heavily on loan and free transfer signings this summer, as he looks to build a squad capable of competing at Premier League level.
www.thestar.co.uk www.thestar.co.uk
 
Blade58 said:
Star reporting following the Geneva meeting, that the heavy focus is on loans and freebies, but there will be some money for permanent acquisitions

Nothing we didn’t already suspect

www.thestar.co.uk

Details of Sheffield United's summer recruitment plans emerge following top level meeting in Switzerland

Sheffield United manager Paul Heckingbottom is set to focus heavily on loan and free transfer signings this summer, as he looks to build a squad capable of competing at Premier League level.
www.thestar.co.uk www.thestar.co.uk
Click to expand...
Do the Star actually get told anything though, or short we wait for Hemmingham's take on it?
 
Blade58 said:
Star reporting following the Geneva meeting, that the heavy focus is on loans and freebies, but there will be some money for permanent acquisitions

Nothing we didn’t already suspect

www.thestar.co.uk

Details of Sheffield United's summer recruitment plans emerge following top level meeting in Switzerland

Sheffield United manager Paul Heckingbottom is set to focus heavily on loan and free transfer signings this summer, as he looks to build a squad capable of competing at Premier League level.
www.thestar.co.uk www.thestar.co.uk
Click to expand...
So they are ruling nothing out then?

Helpful!
 
Bladeinleeds said:


Saw this online today and thought it interesting.

Loans are a very viable way to get lads to play and really develop and increase the value of our assets or at the least what they can do.

We’ve seen the likes of

Jebbo (burton) / rnd (Luton) really progress on loan but also

Couple of poor loans to Belgium, osula (not getting game time at derby) and seems like it wasn’t the best idea to have people playing for sides that can’t buy a win like Rochdale / forest green.

I do think that we should be more discerning on where we send out young lands. Especially ones we’ve high hopes for (alblaster, osula, jebbo etc) as it could pay dividends. And imo will only be more important if we stay in the PL and have more resources invested in our squad players
Click to expand...


I know times are tough but it strikes me as chump change to pay £30k PA for a job which could be so pivotal in our on field performance and calls for a reasonable level of football coaching experience and qualifications .
Without our two top loan stars this season I can't help feel we'd have been play-off also-rans at best. I'm not saying everyone at the club needs to be on £100k+ PA but if you want to attract top quality staff in important roles, you surely have to offer more than that.
 

joeshaw123 said:
I know times are tough but it strikes me as chump change to pay £30k PA for a job which could be so pivotal in our on field performance and calls for a reasonable level of football coaching experience and qualifications .
Without our two top loan stars this season I can't help feel we'd have been play-off also-rans at best. I'm not saying everyone at the club needs to be on £100k+ PA but if you want to attract top quality staff in important roles, you surely have to offer more than that.
Click to expand...
I wonder if this is what was offered to Billy before he said nah...
 
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