"Carrying the ball"

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mattbianco1 said:
The stats that stand out for me are not the carrying ones, it's the passing ones.

At some point in the first half a stat came up showing Brighton at ~250 passes versus Uniteds ~75

We need to hold onto it better and without having the players to carry the ball, the only option we have is successful passing.
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That's not an option though. Not offering a threat running with the ball allows the opposition to sit in whatever defensive shell they prefer and fulfil their roles to precision. There aren't successful teams who don't carry the ball well and often
 
If only we’d not sold the 2 players who were capable of carrying the ball.

I’ll await the “but they wanted to leave” excuses.
 
mattbianco1 said:
The stats that stand out for me are not the carrying ones, it's the passing ones.

At some point in the first half a stat came up showing Brighton at ~250 passes versus Uniteds ~75

We need to hold onto it better and without having the players to carry the ball, the only option we have is successful passing.
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But as I mentioned above, the first sign of a half decent press and we are turning to face backwards, passing the ball to Wes who then rushes to hoof the ball upfield and cheaply giving up possession.
 
Balham Blade said:
No issue with us selling players who don't want to stay (different to wanting to leave) but our issue is that we didn't replace them.
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Are you telling me that Traore isn’t the Ndiaye replacement we’d all dreamed of?!
 
Houston_Blade said:
New contracts offered in a timely manner where we pay them enough and they stay. Berge certainly didn’t have a dream of playing for Burnley.
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We offered contracts to both of them on multiple occasions long before we got promoted.

Despite the love in with Ndiaye, if he really loved the club as T Campbell claimed then he would have signed a new deal years ago.

How the funds for both players have been spent is a better to debate to have and whether the club needs 5 left backs.
 
Balham Blade said:
No issue with us selling players who don't want to stay (different to wanting to leave) but our issue is that we didn't replace them.
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Not sure you replace Ndiaye but if you are going to let Berge go and bring Hamer in. It might be wise we play him in his best position.
 
Bladesman said:
We offered contracts to both of them on multiple occasions long before we got promoted.
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That’s the club line but unless you know it definitely happened then I’m unconvinced. It was also a year too late for Ndiaye, it was clear he was a generational talent before the start of last season.

Bladesman said:
How the funds for both players have been spent is a better to debate to have and whether the club needs 5 left backs.
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Not a good one in the bunch either.
 
Houston_Blade said:
That’s the club line but unless you know it definitely happened then I’m unconvinced. It was also a year too late for Ndiaye, it was clear he was a generational talent before the start of last season.


Not a good one in the bunch either.
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It isn't the club line. He was offered a new deal not long after he signed his previous one. We didn't suddenly get to this summer and think "Oh shit, we forgot to give him a new deal."
 

Bladesman said:
It isn't the club line. He was offered a new deal not long after he signed his previous one. We didn't suddenly get to this summer and think "Oh shit, we forgot to give him a new deal."
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I’m not convinced anything was offered on the kind of money that someone of Ndiaye’s talent should be offered.

I’ll agree to disagree though.

Your point is valid though and if he’d signed a new deal and we’d have got the £30m+ he was worth then we still wouldn’t have replaced him. We’d have bought 3 Souza’s instead.
 
Rodley said:
View attachment 174542

He NevEr DiD OwT!

Should have been replaced with someone capable of progressing play up the pitch.
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We should have offered him a deal he'd accept and sign Hamer. We should have offered Ndayie the same and signed Archer.

We'd probably have a chance if we did that. Easy for me to say 'cause it's not my cash.
 
blade67 said:
We should have offered him a deal he'd accept and sign Hamer. We should have offered Ndayie the same and signed Archer.

We'd probably have a chance if we did that. Easy for me to say 'cause it's not my cash.
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That's all well and good if a player wants to sign a new deal.
 
I'm really growing to love a Carlton Blade Stat Attack me.

This makes a lot of sense to me, from what I've been watching. As has been said on this thread, we miss Berge's contribution in this sense, and he'd be another potential runner that the opposition would have to be mindful of. Now, all the focus is on McAtee, Hamer and Archer. It's too simple, they know how to shut us down.

As Foxy has said, we lack the energy and legs in the middle of the park to play this way with Norwood, Souza and Hamer. We have to bin the midfield 3 off, IMO. We're getting overrun, knackered, and second to everything.

We have to go 4-2-3-1 or similar. Play as many as possible in their natural position, including dropping Hamer more to CDM where he can influence play.

Then, to totally contradict my last paragraph, I'd genuinely consider playing Larouci on the left of that advanced 3, such are our injury and energy problems. I'd be saying "just run forwards". 😆
 
Carlton Blade said:
That's not an option though. Not offering a threat running with the ball allows the opposition to sit in whatever defensive shell they prefer and fulfil their roles to precision. There aren't successful teams who don't carry the ball well and often
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Losing Berge and Ndiaye, we’ve actually got a less athletic team than last year. The reality is we should have looked to significantly improve our athleticism to compete at this level.
 
At the latter end of last season we had Ndiaye , McAtee & Berge making up the starting 11 , all 3 of them capable players on the ball & confident in carrying it when there’s space . We’ve now just got McAtee.
Hamer , Souza & Norwood all too similar type of player & none are ball carriers . We are very slow and predictable and none of the stats shock me in the slightest .
 
jono_t2000 said:
My main issue is how we can't beat a high press.

It's always pass it back to Wes who then hoofs it upfield.
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Hecky was critical of that in his interview. Rightly pointing out that it just gives the ball away.
Wh the players do that is the point to be considered and addressed.
 
Carlton Blade said:
Lots of things about this season are making it clear just how difficult United have found the step up (for any number of reasons we've all covered). But this one really stands out for me.

Good teams have players who get on the ball and, first thought is, get it down and drive towards the opposition goal. There are 96 teams in the 5 top European leagues. United are 96th in

Number of carries attempted - 2,476. 63 behind 95th. 74 behind 19th in the PL.
Distance achieved - 5,338 yards. 1,482 yards behind 95th. 2,359 behind 19th in the PL.
Distance per carry - 2.16 YPC. 0.09 yards (5%) behind 95th. 0.12 yards (9.5%) behind 19th in the PL.

That's absolutely insane. I'd love to know if it's intentional or whether the coaching team are even aware of it?

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A great spot. Whenever we have the ball in our defensive third, we are so easy to press precisely because we’re only looking for a safe pass or a hoof. It’s painfully clear we aren’t working on how to build attacks, how to break a press, how to give the man on the ball options etc. This really has nothing to do with the quality of our playing squad but how we are setting up. I said in the Brighton game, the setup is giving us little chance, if we’re honest the red card changed everything. This was the same last year but we were playing sides with less quality and we had Ndiaye.

This is why I think we need a change in the management team.
 
A Storm of Blades said:
A great spot. Whenever we have the ball in our defensive third, we are so easy to press precisely because we’re only looking for a safe pass or a hoof. It’s painfully clear we aren’t working on how to build attacks, how to break a press, how to give the man on the ball options etc. This really has nothing to do with the quality of our playing squad but how we are setting up. I said in the Brighton game, the setup is giving us little chance, if we’re honest the red card changed everything. This was the same last year but we were playing sides with less quality and we had Ndiaye.

This is why I think we need a change in the management team.
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I think there's an extremely strong argument that selection and tactics aren't getting the best out of this group of players. The counter argument is whether a new manager would make enough of a difference to lose the 'stability' PH provides by allowing United not to employ anyone between him and Bettis
 
Bladesman said:
Not sure you replace Ndiaye but if you are going to let Berge go and bring Hamer in. It might be wise we play him in his best position.
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We are playing our two (relatively) big money central midfield signings out of position to accommodate Oli Norwood. We did the same last season with Tommy Doyle.

Harsh though it may be I'm looking forward to Norwood picking up two more bookings because that will force Heckingbottom's hand in terms of the midfield personnel.
 
Carlton Blade said:
I think there's an extremely strong argument that selection and tactics aren't getting the best out of this group of players. The counter argument is whether a new manager would make enough of a difference to lose the 'stability' PH provides by allowing United not to employ anyone between him and Bettis
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I completely get the argument that individual quality is an important factor and selling 2 very good ball carriers is hardly going to help. However, the setup never seems to allow us to get out and up the field. Relying on some Ndiaye magic or Berge’s rampaging elephant is hardly a dependable tactic.

Yesterday, we were constantly penned in at RB and LB as players were left isolated against the press. Brighton, in contrast would constantly move players towards the man with the ball, always giving them an out ball.

The lack of doing this is 100% a management error.
 
We will never do what Cole Palmer does for Chelsea.

Norwood prefers to let the ball do the running rather than his legs.

Souza prefers to point.

Hamer ...he's just not lithe enough to be a runner.

You watch our players when they are running to close down space its a real effort for them (being forced) you can see them actually get their heads down.
 

John Street West Terrace said:
At the latter end of last season we had Ndiaye , McAtee & Berge making up the starting 11 , all 3 of them capable players on the ball & confident in carrying it when there’s space . We’ve now just got McAtee.
Hamer , Souza & Norwood all too similar type of player & none are ball carriers . We are very slow and predictable and none of the stats shock me in the slightest .
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Nail on head.
 
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