Why don't we sign players from our League?

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Slim Man

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A question asked time and time again by supporters yet largely falls on deaf ears. It's a proven method of getting promoted from this league. It isn't difficult.

Charlton did it, Wolves did it, Bristol did it, all went up at a canter. Wigan are about to do the same.
We continue to sign old 'mates' on a big wage from the league above after one last payday, often crocked or past it. Rather than signing young, hungry players who are doing it in the league right now.

One big positive from our past year has been Matt Done, a player who was on a great run and continued it here. Are our board so totally stupid that they continue to think they way they've been doing things is a good way?

I'd swap all of our 'big names' for a Bradshaw, a Moncur, a Dack.

It's not too late if we change our complete transfer policy. Out with the old in with the new. Literally.
 

If you have no credible scouting set up then all you are left with are 'old mates'.
Adkins probably asked to see the scouting database on day 1 and was handed a dog chewed notebook containing the names of half a dozen Scottish midgets and an assortment of Derby County reserves.
 
If you have no credible scouting set up then all you are left with are 'old mates'.
Adkins probably asked to see the scouting database on day 1 and was handed a dog chewed notebook containing the names of half a dozen Scottish midgets and an assortment of Derby County reserves.

That's unfair.

There were also some Blackpool players in it.
 
i said this ages ago. if you are the biggest club in the division you simply go around and hoover up all the talent in the division like the OP says. that is how Wolves and Charlton did it.. that is how Bayern do it. but instead we have to go and get crocks from the league above with 'potential' .. even though they are 30 years old. it would seem that we put to much faith in our medical department. they are probably very good (they get enough practice) but they aren't miracle workers
i'd go and get Mellis and his mate.. they totally bossed the midfield the other week
 
I agree with you Danny. I put this on facebook yesterday in response to one of my mates saying our subs would walk into any team in the league

"I like your optimism but I am not sure its true that our subs would walk into any team in this division. I cannot see the likes of McEverley, Woolford and even JCR walking into any team. This squad is loaded with players that are stained with repeated failure at this level trying to get us up and too many crocks that cant string a succession of games together without getting injured. The players we have brought in have either plateaued in there careers or are on the downward spiral . I dont advocate getting rid of Adkins but it is time for a rethink in the squad. We need to get young hungry talent from the division we are in. Cherry pick the best from other clubs around us not bring in high earning, average dross from the league above."
 
Done, Baxter, Cuvelier, Brandy, Butler, McGahey, Alcock, J. Wallace.... doesn't always work. It's about how fit for purpose the individuals are. It is though, generally a strategy I would like to see implemented more. When we signed Baxter and Cuvelier, I thought that was a sign of how the funds would be used to snap up decent young players from this league but the sums being spent in the championship now mean that these players are being hoovered up for larger fees than they were a couple of years ago. Byrne to Wolves being an example. Wilson to Bournemouth for £3million being another as well as our own sales of the likes of Maguire and Murphy. This means we won't be able to sign the very best of this league which means we go for the ones in this league that look decent but haven't done enough to attract championship offers (Morsy for example) or we look at the cream of League 2/conference.

Another route I'd like to see us do more of is trying to get youngsters struggling for a chance at a higher level like we did with Blackman/Freeman etc. Vale have the likes of Ikpeazu and Innis on loan and if they're not going to get a look in at their parent clubs, I'd like to see us in for that sort of player.
 
Done, Baxter, Cuvelier, Brandy, Butler, McGahey, Alcock, J. Wallace.... doesn't always work.

Done and Baxter I'd say were success stories. Cuvelier was signed from Stoke, but he's a crock not much we can do about that - same goes for Wallace.
Alcock and Brandy can't be regarded as two of the best players in the league, McGahey was from the league above and Butler was an unforseen situation.

If we signed the BEST in the league it wouldn't matter. There's no way Bradshaw wouldn't hack it here, same goes for Dack, same goes for Sawyers, for Moncur, for Cameron, for Bostwick. They are all better than what we have and would run through brick walls to pull on the red and white. Our lot couldn't care less.
 
Done, Baxter, Cuvelier, Brandy, Butler, McGahey, Alcock, J. Wallace.... doesn't always work. It's about how fit for purpose the individuals are. It is though, generally a strategy I would like to see implemented more. When we signed Baxter and Cuvelier, I thought that was a sign of how the funds would be used to snap up decent young players from this league but the sums being spent in the championship now mean that these players are being hoovered up for larger fees than they were a couple of years ago. Byrne to Wolves being an example. Wilson to Bournemouth for £3million being another as well as our own sales of the likes of Maguire and Murphy. This means we won't be able to sign the very best of this league which means we go for the ones in this league that look decent but haven't done enough to attract championship offers (Morsy for example) or we look at the cream of League 2/conference.

Another route I'd like to see us do more of is trying to get youngsters struggling for a chance at a higher level like we did with Blackman/Freeman etc. Vale have the likes of Ikpeazu and Innis on loan and if they're not going to get a look in at their parent clubs, I'd like to see us in for that sort of player.

Problem is we get a player like Blackman does well scores goals and we decide to flog him 6 months into a 3 year deal. It is short sightedness from the fucking lunatics running the club coupled with us gullible fuckers that keep going regardless why things won't change one iota.

We can all write eulogies on here about what's wrong, should we sack another manager, the players are shit with the occasional poster ok sorry 2 or 3 posters saying we're lucky to have a club Mcabe is God and we'll get it right eventually.

But we'll carry on getting the same shit again and again until crowds start dropping
 
And as regard the op has anyone anywhere asked anyone at the club WHY we don't do this?
 
So Jim et al can crow over 'big' signings with successful pasts like Brayford, Hammond, Sharp etc. They wouldn't be able to boast if they signed the likes of Luke Freeman, Luke Ayling, Mark Little etc.
 
And as regard the op has anyone anywhere asked anyone at the club WHY we don't do this?

Because as a club we have been arrogant, believe that we are too big to sign League 1 standard players and seem to blindly chase Championship players who we have to pay over the odds for or are just unrealistic targets.
 
Sky did a documentary on Warnock aptly named "Warnock".

In that our Neil goes to see the Board and outlines the current situation with the squad. One of his points, is that in true Warnock fashion, he fancied a new Striker to get us up the league.

Kevin McCabe suggests "What about a big name like Duncan Ferguson at Everton?" Warnock replies that although a Ferguson type figure would in the short term put a couple of thousand on the gate, we needed a young striker to get us up in the Premier League. He goes on to mention that he had heard Jon Stead at Blackburn might be available, he is then interrupted by some twat asking if he was planning on sending any players out on loan.

That was 2004 and I imagine not will have changed in board meetings today, apart from a few faces.

Found it:

 
A question asked time and time again by supporters yet largely falls on deaf ears. It's a proven method of getting promoted from this league. It isn't difficult.

Charlton did it, Wolves did it, Bristol did it, all went up at a canter. Wigan are about to do the same.
We continue to sign old 'mates' on a big wage from the league above after one last payday, often crocked or past it. Rather than signing young, hungry players who are doing it in the league right now.

One big positive from our past year has been Matt Done, a player who was on a great run and continued it here. Are our board so totally stupid that they continue to think they way they've been doing things is a good way?

I'd swap all of our 'big names' for a Bradshaw, a Moncur, a Dack.

It's not too late if we change our complete transfer policy. Out with the old in with the new. Literally.

title needs a slight adjustment

Why don't we sign players.

there you go
 
Done and Baxter I'd say were success stories. Cuvelier was signed from Stoke, but he's a crock not much we can do about that - same goes for Wallace.
Alcock and Brandy can't be regarded as two of the best players in the league, McGahey was from the league above and Butler was an unforseen situation.

If we signed the BEST in the league it wouldn't matter. There's no way Bradshaw wouldn't hack it here, same goes for Dack, same goes for Sawyers, for Moncur, for Cameron, for Bostwick. They are all better than what we have and would run through brick walls to pull on the red and white. Our lot couldn't care less.

I wasn't meaning to say they were all failures, just that we had done it with varying degrees of success. It seems whichever approach we go for lately, we have very limited success with it. I think the lack of continuity of recruitment plan and football management is a big factor in that. That being said, Clough had the perfect opportunity to get it right in summer 2014 and blew it. Let's see if Adkins gets that same opportunity in 2016.
 

Sky did a documentary on Warnock aptly named "Warnock".

In that our Neil goes to see the Board and outlines the current situation with the squad. One of his points, is that in true Warnock fashion, he fancied a new Striker to get us up the league.

Kevin McCabe suggests "What about a big name like Duncan Ferguson at Everton?" Warnock replies that although a Ferguson type figure would in the short term put a couple of thousand on the gate, we needed a young striker to get us up in the Premier League. He goes on to mention that he had heard Jon Stead at Blackburn might be available, he is then interrupted by some twat asking if he was planning on sending any players out on loan.

That was 2004 and I imagine not will have changed in board meetings today, apart from a few faces.

I think this is really still a problem. We have no one in charge at the club that knows anything about football and they will all be focussed on big names, or names they've heard of such as: Billy Sharp, Dean Hammond, David Edgar, Dan Burn etc. They are players which have played in the PL so they've heard of them and will be more supportive of bring them in because it probably helps them to boast about their club whilst thinking they are taking a role in managing it. I'd really support an age cap on new permanent signings, such as no manager being able to sign a player aged over 27 or 28.
 
It also needs a club wanting to sell and the player wanting to move. Clubs in this league will put a premium on selling to a rival and players won't care unless we offer them a bunch of cash in signing on fees/higher wages. That means spending money over the going rate, which isn't going to happen
 
It also needs a club wanting to sell and the player wanting to move. Clubs in this league will put a premium on selling to a rival and players won't care unless we offer them a bunch of cash in signing on fees/higher wages. That means spending money over the going rate, which isn't going to happen

Yet what we pay for in transfer fee's we'll make in wages.

Hammond will be on 6x what Bradley Dack will be on. At least...
Sharp will be on 10x what Bradshaw is on. At least.

If it's good enough for 3 champions of the past 4, it's good enough for us.
 
Yet what we pay for in transfer fee's we'll make in wages.

Hammond will be on 6x what Bradley Dack will be on. At least...
Sharp will be on 10x what Bradshaw is on. At least.

If it's good enough for 3 champions of the past 4, it's good enough for us.

Bang on. I don't know the figures but I'd imagine the amount of money we've paid for this loan spell for Dean Hammond would be enough to sign a good player from this level on a permanent deal.
 
Sky did a documentary on Warnock aptly named "Warnock".

In that our Neil goes to see the Board and outlines the current situation with the squad. One of his points, is that in true Warnock fashion, he fancied a new Striker to get us up the league.

Kevin McCabe suggests "What about a big name like Duncan Ferguson at Everton?" Warnock replies that although a Ferguson type figure would in the short term put a couple of thousand on the gate, we needed a young striker to get us up in the Premier League. He goes on to mention that he had heard Jon Stead at Blackburn might be available, he is then interrupted by some twat asking if he was planning on sending any players out on loan.

That was 2004 and I imagine not will have changed in board meetings today, apart from a few faces.

Found it:






We NEED this guy back!
 
A question asked time and time again by supporters yet largely falls on deaf ears. It's a proven method of getting promoted from this league. It isn't difficult.

Charlton did it, Wolves did it, Bristol did it, all went up at a canter. Wigan are about to do the same.
We continue to sign old 'mates' on a big wage from the league above after one last payday, often crocked or past it. Rather than signing young, hungry players who are doing it in the league right now.

One big positive from our past year has been Matt Done, a player who was on a great run and continued it here. Are our board so totally stupid that they continue to think they way they've been doing things is a good way?

I'd swap all of our 'big names' for a Bradshaw, a Moncur, a Dack.

It's not too late if we change our complete transfer policy. Out with the old in with the new. Literally.

Good point Danny. There are still one or two gems to be found in the division above, if you look in the right places. Similar to what Barnsley have just done. Sure Hammill will make himself well known to our players on Saturday. Must be invisible to our scouts though.
 
Still trying to fathom why the last two managers have insisted on bringing in tranches of their former players.

Is it something to do with fear about an unusually intimidating atmosphere at Bramall Lane (behind the scenes &/or in the stands), so that they need the welcome support of having a core of familiar, well-known faces around them who they can trust?

Is it going for the tried & trusted, in a (mistaken) belief that them being here, with their known attributes, will covert into quick success on the pitch?

Whatever it is, it's "comfort blanket management" & seems the entire opposite of going out & scouting/recruiting the sort of younger, hungrier, on-the-up players that the O/P (rightly, in my view) recommends.

But the board's role in manipulating fan expectations (as pointed out above) can't be ignored with some of these signings too though, & again has to be a factor involved standing in the way of us signing younger, more promising players (rather than older, more "proven" players).
 
I agree with you Danny. I put this on facebook yesterday in response to one of my mates saying our subs would walk into any team in the league

"I like your optimism but I am not sure its true that our subs would walk into any team in this division. I cannot see the likes of McEverley, Woolford and even JCR walking into any team. This squad is loaded with players that are stained with repeated failure at this level trying to get us up and too many crocks that cant string a succession of games together without getting injured. The players we have brought in have either plateaued in there careers or are on the downward spiral . I dont advocate getting rid of Adkins but it is time for a rethink in the squad. We need to get young hungry talent from the division we are in. Cherry pick the best from other clubs around us not bring in high earning, average dross from the league above."
McEv and Woolford would walk into any team in this league.

Because they can't run.
 
Do teams like selling to other teams in the same division? It's a bit of a rarity isn't it? But yeah I'm all for it if it's an option.
 
The main reason we don't buy these prospects is because we dont like paying transfer fees for players unless:

It's cheap.
Or
They are already doing well in this league but aren't attracting attention from championship clubs.
Or
They are known to the manager, personally - he's worked with them before.
Or
It's perceived as a 'bums on seats' signing.

That rules out most of the players we should be looking at.
 
we seem to sign players that are championship level so that 'when we get up they will be ready for championship level'.. problem is we never get to championship level because the football is different and these type of players can't cut it down here. they don't get the protection from the referees.we need to be looking at anyone that is in contention for league one team of the season IMO
 
Do teams like selling to other teams in the same division? It's a bit of a rarity isn't it? But yeah I'm all for it if it's an option.
Yeah, Bristol City hoovered up last season. If you're willing to pay the going rate you can get whatever you desire.

With a Saudi 'prince' it shouldn't be too much to ask...
 

I think we need to find the right balance between the following categories:-


1. Best players of League 1 (that we can attract in league 1).

2. Best young players from League 2 and lower (young prospects like Adams)

3. The odd old head from the championship (only a sprinkling though- McCall type leaders if we can identify them)

4. PL or upper championship kids struggling to make the breakthrough at their parent clubs. We’ve seen the likes of Blackman, Freeman, Coady etc. provide value from this category. I look at players like Uche Ikpeazu, Cole (Larnell and Devante), Keshi Anderson, Ryan Innis, George Evans, Nathan Byrne, Daniel Johnson, Michail Antonio, Ben Marshall, Matt Phillips, Billy Sharp and Steven Quinn (when we sold/loaned to lower league teams from higher up) and think there is real value to be had in that market either on loan or permanent deals.

5. A gem or two from our overseas scouting that is not known to others.
 

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