What type of team are we ?

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SandyMcBlade

SandyMcBlade

Bennyandtheblades
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I know some smart bottom will have the short answer, but seriously if some one asked you what type of team we are right now what would you say ?
You couldn't say that this season we've been an attacking team could you, we've been playing one up front mainly even at home with occasionally a tentative two.
No not an attacking team.
But you wouldn't call us a defensive team either, not with us having two attacking fullbacks on the wings and another two attacking fullback (or an attacking midfield player) at center half and a goal keeper who ought to have a little curl right in the middle of his forehead because when he's good he's very very good but when he's bad, forget it.. . I'm not complaining though it works OK most of the time, that is till their up against set pieces.
No not a defensive team either.
I used to think we were a hit them on the brake kind of team, let them come at us and then when they've over committed them selves catch them on the brake .
It has happened a couple of times but usually what happens is if we score we pull every one back to defend and they pin us in our half until they score one back.
If we were a real hit them on the break type of team this would of course be the best time to hit them but we seldom seem to have anyone in position to do it...
So if we are not a catch em on the brake team either.

What type of team are we ?
 

I would say we were an error prone team.

We have shipped a lot of goals on account of basic defensive errors.

Cloughie seems happy with the 1-0 wins but this is no good if you keep dropping cods here and there.

Error prone. That is it.

HH
 
Unsettled..

And in the playoffs..

Remarkable really..
 
SandyMcBlade said:
I know some smart bottom will have the short answer, but seriously if some one asked you what type of team we are right now what would you say ?
You couldn't say that this season we've been an attacking team could you, we've been playing one up front mainly even at home with occasionally a tentative two.
No not an attacking team.
But you wouldn't call us a defensive team either, not with us having two attacking fullbacks on the wings and another two attacking fullback (or an attacking midfield player) at center half and a goal keeper who ought to have a little curl right in the middle of his forehead because when he's good he's very very good but when he's bad, forget it.. . I'm not complaining though it works OK most of the time, that is till their up against set pieces.
No not a defensive team either.
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Good question:

You can be attacking playing 4-6-0 but I don't think we're an out and out attacking team No, though we're generally far more positive than we're given credit for.

Clough often talks about how the defenders attack eg Scunthorpe away LB crosses, RB finishes from inside the box. I think this is important to him.

SandyMcBlade said:
If we were a real hit them on the break type of team this would of course be the best time to hit them but we seldom seem to have anyone in position to do it...
So if we are not a catch em on the brake team either.
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This is a real weakness. I do think we try to set up to pick teams off at 1-0 but it hasn't worked for a while.
 
Didn't we do that on Sunday ?
Personally the only type of team I want us to be is a winning one...

UTB
 
We play like a bunch of strangers sometimes and not a team. Predictable and not very creative.
 
I want to say a good passing team which we are .... but only when we want to be most games we have spells where we look quite good but we just can't do it for a full match or sometimes not at all where we can't string a forward pass together or have any real motivation to do anything meaningful.

But we are in the playoffs so we can't be that awful, promotion is soon, In Clough i trust UTB!
 
Enigmatic and currently getting away with murder. Sunday's game highlighted a lot of our problems. Although having a decent season (although 69 points is criminally low for a play-off place) Chesterfield are pretty average for this level. United, however, made them look very good indeed. Their quick movement combined with accurate first-time passing was a revelation to us who have sat through a season of mostly dross. This shows how far we've sunk.

The first half on Sunday (which I thought was superb) showed yet again that we didn't do nearly enough at their end of the field considering we were the home team. This happens at every home game. The frequency that the ball fizzed across our goal-mouth made a goal for them inevitable. In the second half (did we have a shot worthy of the name in the second half?) we were like rabbits caught in headlights. We gave their number 3 unlimited space to launch crosses, panicked and - when we won the ball - it was by default rather than design. (In tennis parlance, 'unforced errors' by Chesterfield). It didn't matter as we quickly lost it again.

Inability to pick a settled side, risible 'tactics', possible lack of fitness compared to other teams have all plunged us into the uncertainty of the play offs. I also think that few - if any - of our players have a 'game brain' where an opportunity is seen before it occurs. We simply don't have the speed of thought required to go for the autos and this comes right from the top. Teams like Watford, Bournemouth, Bristol C., Brentford etc. are Smart with a capital S.

Next season? I can't see any significant changes in method. We finished 20 points behind MKD and 21 points above relegation, so interest in the bottom places next season is highly possible. Ask Leyton Orient.
 
Rudderless.....we have some very good individual players but collectively they struggle.....not good enough at the back.....overcrowded in midfield.....can't score goals up top....mix that with the managers negativity and stubbornness and you have SUFC!

I said rudderless because Clough picks the team, drops players in form, plays others out of position when there are natural options then tells them how to play...
 
We are a team of honest players who work hard but too many are played in roles which do not suit their strengths. Our squad has been built in haphazard fashion with no apparent regard for the importance of a strong spine or the need for game changers and goal scorers. We lack height and strength and are vulnerable at set pieces defensively and next to useless offensively.

Our three main game changers are Done, Murphy and Baxter in that order. Done has slipped down the league top scorer charts since he came to us and never seems fit any more. Murphy carries the huge burden of being our only true game changer and gets closely marked out of games usually. Baxter is always played out of position and never in the dangerous areas he could do real damage, when he gets the ball nobody moves into the areas he's looking to play the ball.

The formation is 4-5-1 which can be a safe system and an exciting one at the same time. We just play the safe bit. When not in possession we get all 11 back in open play at times and usually 10; Scougall for example can be seen in the back line regularly and yet he is usually our "advanced midfielder". When we gain possession we are obsessed with ball retention and everybody knows there is no point making a forward run so all players stand still and patiently wait for a sequence of sideways and backward balls. When our front lone striker is brought into play it is usually the "get out ball" and regardless of his size the ball arrives to his head or just above and he has to battle with a strong centre half in the air and the defender usually has two or three other defenders around to cover the odd occasion he doesn't win the ball. Referees no longer give fouls for centre halves battering centre forwards in the back so our lone striker never looks happy, not surprisingly, he gets zero quality service. If he does manage to collect the ball the whole midfield can be twenty yards behind him.

Our defence lacks central defenders and leaders, we make do without them. We can hold 70% possession during home games and still go in 1-0 down at half time. Our keeper is distinctly average but that's quite good in the overall scheme of things. We have the most expensive player in the league and he is a full back who plays centre half. His chosen partner is a player we signed as a midfielder or a veteran who is a full back. At right back we have two good players, Alcock and Freeman; one can attack but not defend, the other can defend but not attack.

In midfield we field the smallest ever set of players ever assembled. Individually they are incapable of competing in the air though Doyle usually takes man then ball very well. They are lightweight and miserable. They get all sorts of conflicting and aggressive bollockings from the touchline and are supposed to perform despite it and this applies even to the 17 year old. If the opposition wish to bully us then it happens and teams rarely respect our need for no contact, though it happened in some cup matches. Doyle is the fighter and the leader. When he is not there he is usually replaced by a player who can't walk freely never mind run. Coutts is a tidy footballer but he is nowhere near the pace and yet he is probably the first name on the sheet these days. He is a sideways and backwards player and sets the tone, no longer does any midfielder other than Baxter even think about a forward pass, Scougall maybe will when he's match fit.

We never get enough players in the opposition box and therefore never pick up any pieces or a misguided pass or cross. When we attack the provider invariably has a target of one striker to aim for in the box and as a result nobody ever has the opportunity to go near post. Only Murphy and Adams ever get to the bye-line but one is double marked and the other rarely plays. Campbell-Ryce often did but was shipped out so maybe it was not a valid tactic. Diego never played to instructions either.

Our new centre forward is an honest and a good player but his career record is just over a goal every 5 games. Our main striker target C O'G was not available but he doesn't score many either. We play our top striker, Done out wide right when we pick him these days.

There is a body of opinion that reckons all the above way of playing will be better suited to football at a higher level.
 
Cyprus Blade said:
At times we simply do not play as a team in my view, certainly not one that knows each other's games and jobs well.
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I think we are over-coached. Players are not allowed to play to their instincts.

We are thoroughly committed to all the defensive bits of 4-5-1 and none of the fluidity going forward. When the keeper and defenders get the ball you can see their minds ticking " play a controlled ball to the nearest man".

When midfielders get the ball they think " don't risk giving the ball away, there's nobody up front, play it nice and easy across field or backwards if necessary, don't dare give it away or a bollocking results, let Murphs lose it".

When forwards get the ball, whoops sorry it's in the singular, when the forward gets the ball he thinks" wow, make the most of this I only get actual possession two or three times a game, buggar, I'm swarmed by defenders".
 
We are set up as a counter attacking team in a division that doesn't warrant that tactic.
The fact that we are ineffective in the league is a factor of that set up.
It's also a factor as to why we have been pretty decent in cup competitions and exceeded expectations there - you only need to nick one to win a cup game and can catch teams on the break as they press forwards.

The set up means that the lone striker (and we have only dabbled with more than one up top but never a real partnership of a pair of proper strikers) is isolated and we lose possession as quickly as we win it back if we don't build it from the back as we go forward together.
The thing is that the ball can travel much faster when passed than can a man running with it or a group of players working a position up the pitch together without a forward option.
Consequently it takes us too long to build and we don't have enough quality to break teams down or enough height and strength to bully teams into submission.

So - an ineffective counter attacking team is what we are but crucially one that can't defend properly - which kind of bollocks the whole concept of counter attack in the first place.
 

Kenilworth said:
We are set up as a counter attacking team in a division that doesn't warrant that tactic.
The fact that we are ineffective in the league is a factor of that set up.
It's also a factor as to why we have been pretty decent in cup competitions and exceeded expectations there - you only need to nick one to win a cup game and can catch teams on the break as they press forwards.

The set up means that the lone striker (and we have only dabbled with more than one up top but never a real partnership of a pair of proper strikers) is isolated and we lose possession as quickly as we win it back if we don't build it from the back as we go forward together.
The thing is that the ball can travel much faster when passed than can a man running with it or a group of players working a position up the pitch together without a forward option.
Consequently it takes us too long to build and we don't have enough quality to break teams down or enough height and strength to bully teams into submission.

So - an ineffective counter attacking team is what we are but crucially one that can't defend properly - which kind of bollocks the whole concept of counter attack in the first place.
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In home games there's nobody to counterattack, they are back there in full force and yet only need an odd couple of players to bother our nine defenders and keeper.
 
There's a lot sneeringly said on here about big slow defenders but in set pieces or other high balls into the box the big defenders like Morgan, Maguire and Collins are worth their weight in gold..
The lack of such a player in my opinion has cost us dearly this season.....
 
Just watching Juventus 2-1 up against Real Madrid. Their striker has as much support as ours
 
I think we lack leadership. Doyle is the captain, but I think his time is numbered. Expect JB to be named captain either way next season. I also think we're still in transition, if we have yet another L1 season to come then Clough has until xmas for me, otherwise it's time for someone else to try. This is his side now and it's time we looked like promotion certainties rather than play-off perennial failures!
 
some great answers fellas - well done.

for me, and to answer the OP explicitly, we ARE NOT a team.

We are 11 players who from week to week nearly always had a different partner.

Football "experts" talk about partnerships all over the field - we had NO partnerships that developed anywhere on the field.

Can anyone think of 2 players gelling week in, week out?

We lacked a spine down the middle from the first game of the season, and that for me sums up the whole season.

We have a doggies chance as they say in cards - just don't waste it.

UTB
 
Cyprus Blade said:
When I played cards at school we had a blind, lame doggies chance (play your one card blind and you have to say which trick you play it on) -let's be lucky for once.

UTB
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Indeed. I look back in a lot of our big games and can point to numerous - what if's, if only's - that latest was Reed and his chance v Spurs when through on goal - just a bit of control was need to slot it into the top left hand corner.......................if only :oops:

Clutching at straws in a way - in reality, just hope we give 100% tomorrow night. Won't look any further than that.

UTB
 
I think one of the problems has been that we're not really a team but a group of 11 players who seem unsure of each other and themselves.
 
Badly managed - in every aspect
hence underachieving in terms of performances and therefore results.
 
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