What changed between Swindon dressing room and the meeting with the Board?

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Woodwardfan

Woodwardfan

Woodwardfan
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Apparently Jim Phipps went to the dressing room after the Swindon away leg and according to Clough gave the dressing room a boost by thanking everyone for a valiant effort and looking forward to next season.

One day we will learn what happened after that.

My guess is that the Board introduced some conditions for the coming season:

1. Change the Head Scout.

2. Take Garner away from the touchline and find a new Assistant Manager, maybe Morgan, but certainly an "encourager" with a positive manner.

Of course Clough said no. Did he resign or was he sacked? He's probably not daft enough to resign.

Pure conjecture but maybe something happened. We'll find out one day perhaps.
 
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Seems odd doesn't it? especially with that promo video coming out I wasn't expecting him to go, i thought he'd get one more season at least. I think you might have been right about changing the head scout, our recruitment has been a joke for the past few seasons, something which needs addressing. Remember when we used to turn up gems from all over the world and the lower leagues? Now if they're not from Scotland, Derby or Blackpool we're not interested, the only exception being Che adams off the top of my head the only signing who didn't meet that criteria.

Perhaps the board were worried with the work on the desso pitch already started and the home kit already released, we wouldn't have anything to talk about during the close season?
 
It's only rumours at the moment, there's no credible source as yet. No doubt Phipps will say more in the future, but he's been silent since the announcement was made. We do know that were were set to keep him. They wouldn't have made the promotional video with Clough in it otherwise. Then there was a high-level meeting on at the weekend that Clough attended (not sure if everyone involved was present in person). Following that, he was sacked.

We don't know if there is any truth to the rumours that he was asked to play more positively and refused. Like Woodwardfan said, it could have been related to demands for changes to the backroom staff. It could have also been related to the future of players.

Whatever happened, I think Clough has got a raw deal as when he was appointed, it was stated unequivically that he would be in charge of all matters on the playing side. He's a man with strong views, and if they were trying to take away some of his promised autonomy I can understand him objecting strongly.

Without knowing the details, I'm tempted to see it as another blunder by the board. Should they have expected Clough to object? Should they have had a potential replacement waiting in the wings?

Of course, this is all speculation and could be bollocks. It could simply be down to the Prince watching some of the performances on video, sleeping on it, and deciding he's had enough. If the Prince had said, "No change no money" the rest of the board would be forced into the decision.
 
Dkc said:
It's only rumours at the moment, there's no credible source as yet. No doubt Phipps will say more in the future, but he's been silent since the announcement was made. We do know that were were set to keep him. They wouldn't have made the promotional video with Clough in it otherwise. Then there was a high-level meeting on at the weekend that Clough attended (not sure if everyone involved was present in person). Following that, he was sacked.

We don't know if there is any truth to the rumours that he was asked to play more positively and refused. Like Woodwardfan said, it could have been related to demands for changes to the backroom staff. It could have also been related to the future of players.

Whatever happened, I think Clough has got a raw deal as when he was appointed, it was stated unequivically that he would be in charge of all matters on the playing side. He's a man with strong views, and if they were trying to take away some of his promised autonomy I can understand him objecting strongly.

Without knowing the details, I'm tempted to see it as another blunder by the board. Should they have expected Clough to object? Should they have had a potential replacement waiting in the wings?

Of course, this is all speculation and could be bollocks. It could simply be down to the Prince watching some of the performances on video, sleeping on it, and deciding he's had enough. If the Prince had said, "No change no money" the rest of the board would be forced into the decision.
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Indeed. There was obviously some major falling out between Clough and the Board over the weekend. If and until someone present at the meeting spills the beans, we won't actually know what the fall out was about.
 
I have no inside knowledge, but one of the theories the timeline supports is that whatever Phipps may have said after the game, the owners took some time to think about things and then decided to fire Clough, and he was told on Sunday.

There may have been no falling out at all. It may just be that the decision makers just took some time to come to a view. This is not unusual, particular where there are co-owners.

Even if there was a falling out, I would be amazed if it was over something like Garner's position.
 
Revolution said:
I have no inside knowledge, but one of the theories the timeline supports is that whatever Phipps may have said after the game, the owners took some time to think about things and then decided to fire Clough, and he was told on Sunday.

There may have been no falling out at all. It may just be that the decision makers just took some time to come to a view. This is not unusual, particular where there are co-owners.
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True, but it seems to me that getting him to do a promotional video about next seasons tends to suggest a decision had been made that he would stay on. The alternative explanation is that the whole organisation at Bramall Lane is a complete shambles and the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, which is obviously nonsense... er, hang on a minute....
 
Darren said:
True, but it seems to me that getting him to do a promotional video about next seasons tends to suggest a decision had been made that he would stay on. The alternative explanation is that the whole organisation at Bramall Lane is a complete shambles and the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, which is obviously nonsense... er, hang on a minute....
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It does seem like the people doing the social media and promotions etc.. are very distant from the board level
as they seemed just as surprised as the fans when the announcement on Clough was made, also
the promotional video was gone without trace afterwards.o_O
 
Dkc said:
Whatever happened, I think Clough has got a raw deal as when he was appointed, it was stated unequivically that he would be in charge of all matters on the playing side.
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Never in a month of Sundays did Clough get a raw deal.

He had his mate installed at board level, was given total control of the club footballing side including the academy and could sign who he wanted within reason.
All the backroom staff except Morgs were his.
All factors as why I thought he should be backed long term. Everything was in place for him to succeed except a first team that kicked ass.

This coming season needed certain changes, changes which were difficult to defend if someone stated that Clough must go.
I hoped that Clough would have learnt and would change his ways, no doubt the board did as well when they did their de-brief on the previous season and asked Clough how he was going to make changes.

It's easy to see Clough saying 'Mi Dad won the European cup and League titles this way, what have you lot won?'

"Close the door on yer way out Nige"
 

If he was told on his appointment that we would have total control of the playing side for the duration of his contract, then half way through its duration he was told that he needed to change his tactics or staff, then he'd have very right to be miffed.

But like I said, we have no idea what happened.
 
GRUMPY BLADE said:
Never in a month of Sundays did Clough get a raw deal.

He had his mate installed at board level, was given total control of the club footballing side including the academy and could sign who he wanted within reason.
All the backroom staff except Morgs were his.
All factors as why I thought he should be backed long term. Everything was in place for him to succeed except a first team that kicked ass.

This coming season needed certain changes, changes which were difficult to defend if someone stated that Clough must go.
I hoped that Clough would have learnt and would change his ways, no doubt the board did as well when they did their de-brief on the previous season and asked Clough how he was going to make changes.

It's easy to see Clough saying 'Mi Dad won the European cup and League titles this way, what have you lot won?'

"Close the door on yer way out Nige"
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Totally agree, throw in the amount of players he's signed and the 1.5 million he spent on one player, not getting autos is pretty shocking.
 
Darren said:
Indeed. There was obviously some major falling out between Clough and the Board over the weekend. If and until someone present at the meeting spills the beans, we won't actually know what the fall out was about.
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he seems to have fallen out with everyone else .. soo .. :)
 
Dkc said:
If he was told on his appointment that we would have total control of the playing side for the duration of his contract, then half way through its duration he was told that he needed to change his tactics or staff, then he'd have very right to be miffed.

But like I said, we have no idea what happened.
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If what someone does isn't working, and they are not prepared to listen to anyone else who is trying to help and wont listen to suggested alternatives, then they are a stupid egotistical underachieving arsehole.

Oh wait.

Compare and Contrast Clough to Tony Pullis methods.
http://www.s24su.com/forum/index.ph...ers-ever-score-again.38327/page-2#post-715840
 
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WARNING!

Parental guidance needed....

425px_PEGI_18.jpg

I'm guessing it went something like this...

 

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Woodwardfan said:
Apparently Jim Phipps went to the dressing room after the Swindon away leg and according to Clough gave the dressing room a boost by thanking everyone for a valiant effort and looking forward to next season.

One day we will learn what happened after that.

My guess is that the Board introduced some conditions for the coming season:

1. Change the Head Scout.

2. Take Garner away from the touchline and find a new Assistant Manager, maybe Morgan, but certainly an "encourager" with a positive manner.

Of course Clough said no. Did he resign or was he sacked? He's probably not daft enough to resign.

Pure conjecture but maybe something happened. We'll find out one day perhaps.
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I heard he was told to change tactics
 
Grecian2000 said:
Jeez Rev, where have you been for the last 6 months when WWF has been on his case.
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Oh, I know WWF's view, and I've seen Garner in action, and I think he makes himself look foolish, as Warnock did when he behaved like that.

But that's trivia from a board perspective.
 
I think the most likely scenario is that he was asked to account for his failure are he said 'what failure'?

He would then have been asked about his plans for next season and he would have basically said 'more of the same'. Bye bye.

Just my view but one reason I think people fantasizing about 'learning lessons' were a bit irrational. Clough tends to improve his teams over time but only incrementally, and the failure to adapt and learn is one reason why.

There is no reason for Sheffield United to accept incremental change in this league. It's a waste of resources. And we weren't improving anyway.
 
secretchief said:
I think the most likely scenario is that he was asked to account for his failure are he said 'what failure'?

He would then have been asked about his plans for next season and he would have basically said 'more of the same'. Bye bye.

Just my view but one reason I think people fantasizing about 'learning lessons' were a bit irrational. Clough tends to improve his teams over time but only incrementally, and the failure to adapt and learn is one reason why.

There is no reason for Sheffield United to accept incremental change in this league. It's a waste of resources. And we weren't improving anyway.
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Irrational? Charming :) It was hope rather than expectation on my part, certainly.

Incidentally, I heard Clough had been sacked when I was in the airport in Bangkok. I heard Weir had been fired when I was in a taxi in Hong Kong. If I'm on the move in Asia, United managers want to watch out.
 
Revolution said:
Irrational? Charming :) It was hope rather than expectation on my part, certainly.

Incidentally, I heard Clough had been sacked when I was in the airport in Bangkok. I heard Weir had been fired when I was in a taxi in Hong Kong. If I'm on the move in Asia, United managers want to watch out.
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I found out as I wandered round Bloomsbury on Monday afternoon and saw a couple of people in Preston shirts. I congratulated them, told them I was a United fan and they told me Clough had gone.
 
We were all congratulating ourselves with the Early Bird season ticket sales. Following the Swindon defeat and the introduction of the new prices I wonder what sales were like up to last weekend. The Board may well have become twitchy about how poor they were and looked for the reason(s) why.
 

It's a very good question. Particularly as the fans' view seemed to have settled 65/35 on keeping him - at least till Christmas.

Any falling out would have had to have been pretty spectacular: no cooling off period, no time to reflect for either side.

There's also the removal of all of Clough's staff. Is it naive to think that given any sort of ultimatum on playing style, recruitment etc he wouldn't at least have gone to his staff and asked for their opinions.

My money is on a decision by the board, or by the Prince possibly based on targets not being met and no confidence on them being met next season either.

But that's based on not much and doesn't really fit the evidence that well.

The most relevant pieces of the jigsaw afaics are: the fans' views, Phipps's apparent support after the Swindon game, the video, and the meeting.

From these it's difficult to put together a coherent picture.

What also might be relevant is whether potential replacements were approached before the announcement.

Was there definitely a meeting before the announcement and if so who was present?

There are all sorts of plausible and implausible (the Board read my posts, realised I was right and confronted Clough, he arrogantly refused to do what I said and got sacked, serves him right) scenarios but without clear evidence or a statement from the relevant parties or BOS bumping into someone at Meadowhell I can't see that we'll know for sure - and even then.

UTB
 
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