We need to wake up

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davidpinder

davidpinder

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And realise that we can not attract premier league players whilst in league 1 and the news today that Michael Turner has gone to the dark side is not surprising. He won't be impressed by a fancy pitch and nice dugouts he only needs to look at that fixture list and his decision will be made. Restrictions mean we can't pay big wages so we need to start looking at out of favour championship players or better still top performing league one players who would be impressed with our facilities and direction.

This league is shite full of nasty horrible grounds and players used to travelling to premier league grounds or good championship grounds just won't swap. All this promise and investment bull shit might work on the fans but players have heard it all before. If we don't sign anymore players by next week we may have a problem, plus the board have some serious questions to answer, I worry we will have an unhappy manager with broken promises.

Stop wasting your time on targets who aren't interested, wake up and go for realistic targets.
 

Well said.

I've been saying for some time now - since I joined this board I believe - that targetting the best from this league we are in is the way to go, based on evidence of how other clubs have gone about things, and why we haven't done just that this season is more than beyond me.

Definitely don't agree with Adkins words on centre back, we need a GK, CB, CM and a RB/RM to replace Murphy. Instead we just look as though we're casually taking our time to sign one midfielder with what NA has said.

We may have had a good start, but remember it's 4 games. That's nothing, and after the horror of Gillingham, we have hardly been challenged. If we continue in the same vein with the mindset that what we have now is good enough - just because we have unconvincingly beaten 3 teams, then i'm sorry to say but another season in this division will be waiting for us come May 2016. :)
 
barnyblade said:
Well said.

I've been saying for some time now - since I joined this board I believe - that targetting the best from this league we are in is the way to go, based on evidence of how other clubs have gone about things, and why we haven't done just that this season is more than beyond me.

Definitely don't agree with Adkins words on centre back, we need a GK, CB, CM and a RB/RM to replace Murphy. Instead we just look as though we're casually taking our time to sign one midfielder with what NA has said.

We may have had a good start, but remember it's 4 games. That's nothing, and after the horror of Gillingham, we have hardly been challenged. If we continue in the same vein with the mindset that what we have now is good enough - just because we have unconvincingly beaten 3 teams, then i'm sorry to say but another season in this division will be waiting for us come May 2016. :)
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Do I need to seek out yet another PANIC gif from the collection?

Let's see what happens, things have hardly gone to shut now have they? I would agree a couple of new players would be useful but they have to be the right players. I'd rather go with no additions than just shelling out because we think we need someone. Quality not quantity. And if Adkins thinks it's all OK then let's give him the chance to prove it. After all he has a bit more to lose than we do if it goes tits up.

Currently we are flattering to deceive with the exception of Peterbrough, but to be fair we are beating what's in front of us at a relative canter.
 
Byrne from mighty Swindon, Dack from the impressive Gillingham and Morsy from the footballing side of Chesterfield along with what we already have would have been more than enough for this division. Before anyone comes up with a reason as to why we haven't got any of these three, we've had ample time and should have done everything possible to aquire these players, we don't need Premier league players at this level, just adequate for the league we're in.

I must add, our scouting hasn't been utter failure but it could still be, and might still prove to be a whole lot better.
 
Bladesway said:
Do I need to seek out yet another PANIC gif from the collection?

Let's see what happens, things have hardly gone to shut now have they? I would agree a couple of new players would be useful but they have to be the right players. I'd rather go with no additions than just shelling out because we think we need someone. Quality not quantity. And if Adkins thinks it's all OK then let's give him the chance to prove it. After all he has a bit more to lose than we do if it goes tits up.

Currently we are flattering to deceive with the exception of Peterbrough, but to be fair we are beating what's in front of us at a relative canter.
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Spot on. We've had far too many signings for the sake of it. I can't (well sadly I can) believe the hysteria that builds up when we're expecting signings.

Think if the legions of bang average players serve continually bought. You can only sign the what's available. Give the manager time to find the right players.

UTB
 
You have to ask can we afford to be promoted this season ? I mean could anyone realistically imagine us making a £9m bid for a striker if we got to the championship ? The football world seems to have gone mad this summer and it shows no signs of getting better Bolton Wanderers £180m in debt and QPR not for behind them just to name two clubs. All but four clubs in the championship are heavily in debt despite extra TV money etc as they chase the holy grail of the premiership. Even the way the pigs are throwing money at it they might not get into the top six just how long can this go on for before it all falls down in a domino effect ?
I'm not sure McCabe even with the Prince backing him could compete in the championship. It might be better to spend big in League One an hoover up all the bright young talent who can make the step up to playing at the next level. For sure we need quality rather than the quantity which has left us with a bloated squad and the problem of moving the shit on.
The more I think about the money being spent on fees and wages at championship level the more I think the Murphy deal was a poor one and once again we have let our star player go for peanuts.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/08/27/recen...ver-1billion-as-bolton-top-the-table-5363448/
http://en.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/312907.html
 
Bear in mind we finished 5th last season. Mk, Preston & bristol have been swapped for Wigan, millwall & Blackpool (and we'll definitely finish above millwall & blackpool so that's us up to 3rd)

Swap Murphy for Che, add a decent CB in Edgar, throw in SAS and bring in a manager who's done it 3 times. To me, the squad we have now should have no trouble getting promoted.
 
bigbirdblade said:
Shut the fuck up Dave you miserable sod.
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Why is it being miserable? Simply making a point, it happens every season sell the top player then look like we are attempting to get replacements that aren't realistic targets and end up in the loan market. We have a good manager IMO and need to support him. Make a statement of intent next week and yeah might "shut the fuck up" as you so nicely put it. :D
 
wizadry said:
Byrne from mighty Swindon, Dack from the impressive Gillingham and Morsy from the footballing side of Chesterfield
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eat-wonka.jpg
 
I think as a club with ambition then we do right to shop in the league above but top flight shopping is trying to punch above our weight. We need to get the mix right more than anything and I think a great deal of what Adkins in looking for in a CB in particular is experience because he knows that we have goals in the team and if he can make that back four solid we are in with a good shout. The experience that Adkins wants can be found above league one but never the less I still think Turner was over ambitious.

I am confident that Adkins will bring in a couple of decent signings anyway. Look at those who have arrived, all of which were Ambitious targets who have brought both quality and experience to the team. If somebody would have said a few months ago that Billy Sharp, Connor Sammon and David Edgar would have been coming in I would have laughed at them. I expect him to deliver more quality now Murphy has gone and the money has been made available.
 
wizadry said:
we don't need Premier league players at this level, just adequate for the league we're in.
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Really? I'd say we need the very best players we can get. If that means we are occasionally disappointed then so be it. Better that than buying 10 in from the lower leagues hoping one or two make it.
 
Agree we need 3 players in positions mentioned to give us the best chance of promotion.

They don't have to be the most talented but they do have to bring qualities that others already in the position don't currently.

E.g a CB that can bring the ball out of defence or a MD that knows how to win the ball back quickly and play a simple pass to get us moving.

These players can all be found in this league and can be used to safeguard our promotion push.

I for one am not interested in the 'long term' for these 3 players I just want to get out of this league THIS season and we should buy accordingly.

Warnock bought some players which I thought were shocking on the face of it but they all bought a different aspect to the team.
 

William Henry Foulkes said:
So...the management team have been spending their time chasing unicorns?

View attachment 13076

Somebody needs to wake up, that's for sure.
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I think the title of the thread is spot on, WE need to wake up! The WE in question is supporters believing every ITK link posted on twatter, Facedock and a dozen dodgy transfer talk sights by 9 year olds simultaneously playing FM2015. Just because these rumours can get as far as a journo or reporter asking Adkins if he's interested in a player DOESN'T mean that the club had this player on their list of possible players to be coming in. Harlee Dean was never a target but there's miles of type having him as a target and many of the others are of a similar ilk.

A few years ago now, Robbie then later picked up by myself started a rumour on here that Theo Walcott was signing on loan. We'd heard nothing, we knew nobody making any such link. In fact Robbie picked TW because it was such a ridiculous notion, and we proceeded to post this in various locations across t'interweb to the point where Warnock was asked the questions Adkins is being asked, a couple of papers reported it and the BBC even listed it as a possible deal.

I offer that as an illustration that ridiculous rumour can get far enough to questions being asked of a manager. William Henry Foulkes is, I hope, suggesting that our management team is a little bit more switched on as to whom they want in, than these rumours suggest.

Un-twist your knickers people, check the label on the sauce and grow-up a bit. Unless of course this nonsense fits your agenda of diss the club at every opportunity in which case carry on. But I'll still giggle at the fact the club you use to beat the club was given to you by a pup reading player ratings on a computer game :)
 
metalblade said:
You have to ask can we afford to be promoted this season ?
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I think it's more a question of 'can we afford not to be promoted this season?' Money from parachute payments and foreign ownership now dominates the Championship. With each passing year, the gap between level 2 and 3 will only grow. It's now or never.

As wizardry (Post #4) rightly points out, there's an absolute glut of players at our level (or not-quite-good-enough for the Championship) out there who would improve our team. There's also Premier Academies who need to give their kids game-time. Other teams - even Barnsley - manage it, why not us?
 
grafikhaus said:
I think it's more a question of 'can we afford not to be promoted this season?' Money from parachute payments and foreign ownership now dominates the Championship. With each passing year, the gap between level 2 and 3 will only grow. It's now or never.

As wizardry (Post #4) rightly points out, there's an absolute glut of players at our level (or not-quite-good-enough for the Championship) out there who would improve our team. There's also Premier Academies who need to give their kids game-time. Other teams - even Barnsley - manage it, why not us?
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Because Barnsley looked so good last time we played them....:rolleyes:
 
SouthEssexBlade said:
I think the title of the thread is spot on, WE need to wake up! The WE in question is supporters believing every ITK link posted on twatter, Facedock and a dozen dodgy transfer talk sights by 9 year olds simultaneously playing FM2015. Just because these rumours can get as far as a journo or reporter asking Adkins if he's interested in a player DOESN'T mean that the club had this player on their list of possible players to be coming in. Harlee Dean was never a target but there's miles of type having him as a target and many of the others are of a similar ilk.

A few years ago now, Robbie then later picked up by myself started a rumour on here that Theo Walcott was signing on loan. We'd heard nothing, we knew nobody making any such link. In fact Robbie picked TW because it was such a ridiculous notion, and we proceeded to post this in various locations across t'interweb to the point where Warnock was asked the questions Adkins is being asked, a couple of papers reported it and the BBC even listed it as a possible deal.

I offer that as an illustration that ridiculous rumour can get far enough to questions being asked of a manager. William Henry Foulkes is, I hope, suggesting that our management team is a little bit more switched on as to whom they want in, than these rumours suggest.

Un-twist your knickers people, check the label on the sauce and grow-up a bit. Unless of course this nonsense fits your agenda of diss the club at every opportunity in which case carry on. But I'll still giggle at the fact the club you use to beat the club was given to you by a pup reading player ratings on a computer game :)
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Spot on. And a great story about Walcott :)
 
davidpinder said:
And realise that we can not attract premier league players whilst in league 1 and the news today that Michael Turner has gone to the dark side is not surprising. He won't be impressed by a fancy pitch and nice dugouts he only needs to look at that fixture list and his decision will be made. Restrictions mean we can't pay big wages so we need to start looking at out of favour championship players or better still top performing league one players who would be impressed with our facilities and direction.

This league is shite full of nasty horrible grounds and players used to travelling to premier league grounds or good championship grounds just won't swap. All this promise and investment bull shit might work on the fans but players have heard it all before. If we don't sign anymore players by next week we may have a problem, plus the board have some serious questions to answer, I worry we will have an unhappy manager with broken promises.

Stop wasting your time on targets who aren't interested, wake up and go for realistic targets.
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whereas I dont completely disagree with you, you also have to realise two other factors which counter some of what you have said.....

In the instance of Michael Turner -

1, He has gone on loan to Wednesday - therefore its no difference in wages he will be getting, it's just that Wednesday will be paying a portion of it - therefore if we could do a deal with a Premiership team to 85% of their wages we could quite easily afford a player on £30k a week

2, If like Wednesday you now have 5 or 6 players all vying for the 2 CB roles, if a player who is currently not even deemed worthy enough to collect splinters at Norwich want to move just to collect splinters, or move to practically guarentee first team football
 
Bladesway said:
Really? I'd say we need the very best players we can get. If that means we are occasionally disappointed then so be it. Better that than buying 10 in from the lower leagues hoping one or two make it.
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I'm not disputing that we don't need the best we can get but we could do with getting out of this league this season and we have just as good a chance getting the best players out of this league as we do the higher leagues also meaning less of a gamble.

Some of the rumours have been ambitious to say the least, the players I mentioned were not if we had acted some time ago.
 
wizadry said:
Byrne from mighty Swindon, Dack from the impressive Gillingham and Morsy from the footballing side of Chesterfield along with what we already have would have been more than enough for this division. Before anyone comes up with a reason as to why we haven't got any of these three, we've had ample time and should have done everything possible to aquire these players, we don't need Premier league players at this level, just adequate for the league we're in.

I must add, our scouting hasn't been utter failure but it could still be, and might still prove to be a whole lot better.
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You and I (and many others) may well agree with those 3 players but maybe our manager doesn't - and if he doesn't then they shouldn't be signed no matter what we think or how much time we've had to get them IMO. Most of us believe that we still need strengthening but we don't get paid to do it so, for the time being, I'm trusting our manager in his measured approach. All we do is pay to watch that sh!t but (in the league) that's only really been 1 game so far. It may seem as if we flattered to deceive against Blackpool (as Bladesway hinted at) but they were one of the most organised sides I've seen in years and were actually much better that I expected.
 
A myth has arisen that NA has indicated that he is no longer interested in a centre-back. If that comes from his most recent interview listen again. The hack reporter steered the conversation towards midfielders and NA went with it. At no point did he even hint that we were no longer in the hunt for a defender.

We don't need a left back by the way. J-Mac, Freeman and ultimately Harris are more than adequate.
 
I think, with the acquisitions so far this season and glut of players of variable quality signed by Mr. Clough, we must be nudging our FFP limit for players wages. Fair enough under Div 1 rules the owners can throw extra money in to boost the turnover figure, however, that would have to be at the rate of £1m for every £600k wages and I can't see that happening to be honest. If that is the case it will put some constraints on Adkins and his strategy and priorities.

Quite simply Clough left us with an imbalanced squad with weaknesses in key positions. Adkins and Co. have been working at those weaknesses - Sharp, Sammon, Edgar - but his real headache must be the list of players he inherited (their general fitness levels, big injury list and too many players of the same type and questionable ability). Getting the players fit and moving some of those players on is, I suspect, a major priority. Moving players on seems to be a task approaching herculean proportions as many of these players are on far higher wages than players at other Div 1 clubs, have fitness issues and in certain cases are not good enough. Persuading someone to take them, even on loan, is not going to be easy (Higdon and Mcfadzean for example). Persuading them to go will be even harder. Earlier in the summer it was touted that Burton wanted Flo and Motherwell would have had Long back - whether either deal made sense I don't know but, other than Murphy and a panic about Adams, there has been little sign of movement out of players still under contract.

Whilst I fully agree we need another CH, better GK cover than Long, LB cover and a dominant CM I suspect we are getting towards a situation where there will be no more "IN's" until we see a few "OUT's" (if we aren't already there). More likely some of the u/21's will get some game time as they don't count towards FFP. Time will tell if we have enough of the right players but I am not expecting a major influx whilst the squad is 30+.
 
Pinchy said:
A myth has arisen that NA has indicated that he is no longer interested in a centre-back. If that comes from his most recent interview listen again. The hack reporter steered the conversation towards midfielders and NA went with it. At no point did he even hint that we were no longer in the hunt for a defender.

We don't need a left back by the way. J-Mac, Freeman and ultimately Harris are more than adequate.
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Do people not get this? :eek:

It's amazing, that reasonably intelligent people, when faced with things football pertinent to their club become gibbering imbeciles. When interviewed a manager can avoid questions, steer the interview in a different direction, even tell out and out porkies if he thinks it will help him get the player(s) he wants at the price he wants.
 

SouthEssexBlade said:
Do people not get this? :eek:

It's amazing, that reasonably intelligent people, when faced with things football pertinent to their club become gibbering imbeciles. When interviewed a manager can avoid questions, steer the interview in a different direction, even tell out and out porkies if he thinks it will help him get the player(s) he wants at the price he wants.
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hit-the-nail-on-the-head-o.gif


wizadry said:
I'm not disputing that we don't need the best we can get but we could do with getting out of this league this season and we have just as good a chance getting the best players out of this league as we do the higher leagues also meaning less of a gamble.

Some of the rumours have been ambitious to say the least, the players I mentioned were not if we had acted some time ago.
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OK Wiz you appear an intelligent bloke who generally talks some sense, certainly more reasonable than some. Lead me through this please and tell me the disconnect between what I read and what I see here. Bits in bold for discussion :)

You are not disputing we need the best we can get (generally from higher divisions if we can is how I read this). Then you say we have just as good a chance by getting the best players out of this league and it's less of a gamble? This is where I am losing you. The best players we can buy are the best players we can buy, no matter where they come from. This division isn't significantly different to any other. They play a game of football. 11 a side (usually, unless Baxter has one of his moments). It isn't a different brand of football unique to what we have seen in the modern world. If we are better than other teams we will beat them usually. I would suggest getting someone from the Premiership is less of a gamble than a jouneyman from League One who has got promoted then been deemed surplus to the newly promoted sides requirements. We need to get promoted but if those players are good enough for the Championship (like Brayford) then the less the gamble.

The last bit in bold is the most important bit. Why do we all go into meltdown over a rumour posted by some lazy jouno with fuck all better to do with his time? Its a rumour. Now we are approaching the end of the transfer window and with the added barmy bonus that this also falls within the school holidays it appears the collective meltdown is through the roof. The clamour for any player is off the scale. I'd recommend everyone get off the roundabout that is the transfer window and just go with the flow over the next few days. How many times have we been here before and there's more life in a eunuchs underpants than at BDTBL? And Adkins doesn't strike me as a man to get flustered by a window snapping shut (thanks Sky Sports for that).

My opinion is we stay calm and let the Manager get on with doing the right things. He appears to be doing ok so far. It's not spectacular but it isn't Wigan either (remember some people shitting their collective knickers every time they signed someone this summer). We have won 3 out of 4 which if my maths is working gets us to almost 100 points. Hardly shit right now is it? Best signing he has made so far in my mind is Edgar who seems rock solid at the back and instils calm in all those around him.

What we don't need right now is a dose of this......
OHSHITRUNAROUND.gif
 
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