Was that really Clough's fault?

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Sheff de party

Sheff de party

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I'm not able to go every week (although I am going on Saturday), but I just watched the highlights.

Goal 1 - no one closes him down and, in my opinion, Turner should get to that.

Goal 2 - Basham (I think) misses it, then Harris somehow air kicks it and the guy scores.

Apply some concentration and the quality those involved (possibly Turner aside) should have, Clough has masterminded another victory.

I didn't watch the match, but if we'd got stuff 3 or 4 and hadn't managed to score, I can see the anger. But we did score and late, late errors cost us it appears.

*puts on tin hat
 

Similarly you could say if their no.22 booted it into the stand instead of letting Matty Done pick his pocket then he would have masterminded another bore draw with limited scoring opportunities created at home.
 
Dec said:
Similarly you could say if their no.22 booted it into the stand instead of letting Matty Done pick his pocket then he would have masterminded another bore draw with limited scoring opportunities created at home.
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We could say that I guess yeah. It seemed like we had a few chances though.
 
All this about being negative and sitting back is crap. Who would you prefer up front for the last 10 minutes defending a 1-0 lead ,Done who is absolutely knackered and had run himself out ,Adams who has played about 3 games at this level or Murphy our top scorer who can run with the ball and pressure tired defenders ?
Clough didn't know Flynns hamstring was going to go ,that's just bad luck or he would have done things differently. Bad goalkeeping and defending in the last 2 minutes cost us ,not negative substitutions.
 
Yes, Turner was terrible for the first but then the player should have been closed down earlier. Bad all round.

The defending was dreadful for the second. J-Mac, Basham and Harris.

But the reason we were under pressure was Clough. Take off outlets up front and just allow them to pressurise us. Daft.
 
cal the blade said:
if it wasnt for us sitting back, peterborough wouldnt have had the chance to attack like that. so yes.. that one is down to clough
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The buck stops with the manager . He picks the team , tactics and playing squad .

Individual player errors and decision making on the field we have to live with . The manager has to do something about it.

UTB
 
robbiez666 said:
Yes, Turner was terrible for the first but then the player should have been closed down earlier. Bad all round.

The defending was dreadful for the second. J-Mac, Basham and Harris.

But the reason we were under pressure was Clough. Take off outlets up front and just allow them to pressurise us. Daft.
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By outlets you mean Mcnulty and Done ? Done was knackered and Mcnulty was useless. Putting Murphy up front was not inviting pressure ,Flynn pulling his hamstring 1 minute later was.
 
I'm quite critical of Clough overall. Last night wasn't his fault. It was 11 inept player performances as far as I'm concerned.

UTB
 

Nigel's dad took the view that "Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes." and there is something in that. Mind you he also said "If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there."
 
sitwell said:
By outlets you mean Mcnulty and Done ? Done was knackered and Mcnulty was useless. Putting Murphy up front was not inviting pressure ,Flynn pulling his hamstring 1 minute later was.
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A tired Murphy is not an outlet. Flynn was clearly struggling before the last substitution. Put Adams on if anything (and the lack of someone to do that on the bench speaks highly of his transfer policy).
 
Sitwell. You are
Cyprus Blade said:
Nigel's dad took the view that "Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes." and there is something in that. Mind you he also said "If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there."
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Clough's Dad knew a player when he saw one. He had a pragmatic assistant to balance his personal flair and bravado. He gave his players licence to play. Such as Robertson who did not have to run a marathon every match, far far from it, because he delivered quality balls to better players at key times in games.

Robertson was slower, fatter and more unfit than Baxter will ever be. One of my best ever players though.
 
The crucial moment for me was when Murphy, who was then the one up top after all the substitutions, was tearing through the middle and Freeman tried to play him in, the pass was just intercepted, had that found Murph, 2-0 game over. It all went tits up from that point.
The substitutions were spot on, Freeman has defensive qualities, Murph up top when they are pushing forward gives him space to break down the middle, it almost worked.
As others say, poor defending snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, not poor substitutions.

However, generally, we were quite shitty in most areas last night.
Missing and welcome returns would be imo - Howard, Scougall's industry, JCR's game changing habits and (gulp) Baxter's lazy ability to do summat different at times.

If last nights performance continues, play offs will disappear up our own arse, and if we scrape in, we wont even make the final.
Lets hope I'm way wide of that particular mark!
 
Woodwardfan said:
Sitwell. You are




Clough's Dad knew a player when he saw one. He had a pragmatic assistant to balance his personal flair and bravado. He gave his players licence to play. Such as Robertson who did not have to run a marathon every match, far far from it, because he delivered quality balls to better players at key times in games.

Robertson was slower, fatter and more unfit than Baxter will ever be. One of my best ever players though.
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Following on from that: Our manager has a dour assistant - hang dog and miserable - this only exaggerates our manager's dour and serious personality. Morgan in the backgroung is whatever they want him to be frankly.

Between them they represent a harsh, critical, almost old-fashioned set of, well not exactly dinosaurs, but let me just say "throwbacks" to the 70's/ 80's.
 
I said at the match that Turner should have easily had the shot for the 1st goal covered. Just seen YouTube and it has confirmed what I had thought
 
Sheff de party said:
All goals get posted on here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/SheffieldUTube
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Anyone watching that clip will clearly see poor defending was the reason we let the opposition score. Admittedly Done was the 'pest' that took advantage of some indecisive defending on P'borough's behalf, but having taken the lead, what our defensive lapses amounted to was to shoot ourselves in the foot. We had that game in the bag, so please realise what it was that contributed to that defeat. Indecision was at the heart of that loss, nothing else. Tactics weren't responsible for not clearing the ball, if you're not sure, look at the clips and decide.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Following on from that: Our manager has a dour assistant - hang dog and miserable - this only exaggerates our manager's dour and serious personality. Morgan in the backgroung is whatever they want him to be frankly.

Between them they represent a harsh, critical, almost old-fashioned set of, well not exactly dinosaurs, but let me just say "throwbacks" to the 70's/ 80's.
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Please can you tell me quite how you reach such damning conclusions? Are you that fat bloke who hands out the drinks?
 
LSF said:
Please can you tell me quite how you reach such damning conclusions? Are you that fat bloke who hands out the drinks?
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Yes, I'd support that LSF, how on earth is Garner harsh? Come to that, how does Morgan become Clough's plaything? It would be nice to know exactly how these conclusions are reached, further to that, how they are commented on with the accuracy that presumably backs up the poster's opinion. If any of these statements go beyond opinion and are fact based then I'll happily retract any critical comments.
 
LSF said:
Please can you tell me quite how you reach such damning conclusions? Are you that fat bloke who hands out the drinks?
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I do my share of handing out drinks like every Blade, always there to get the first round, just like you LSF.o_O

The "damning conclusions" were an adjunct to my post about Nigel's Dad. I seriously believe management teams are about the blend of characters and a sum total of accumulated skills.

Clough/ Garner/ Morgan/ Brannigan/ Clough ( the brother) are much of a like with like to me, all old-fashioned, old school. Cronies in modern day terms - could never happen under Equal Opportunities in other industries in modern times.

Clough Senior ( the maverick, the genius, the one-off) and his assistant Peter Taylor ( the boring old fart, the pragmatist, the dead-pan foil to his boss).

We've got a group of clones.:eek:
 
itsinyerblood said:
Yes, I'd support that LSF, how on earth is Garner harsh? Come to that, how does Morgan become Clough's plaything? It would be nice to know exactly how these conclusions are reached, further to that, how they are commented on with the accuracy that presumably backs up the poster's opinion. If any of these statements go beyond opinion and are fact based then I'll happily retract any critical comments.
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itsinyerblood said:
Yes, I'd support that LSF, how on earth is Garner harsh? Come to that, how does Morgan become Clough's plaything? It would be nice to know exactly how these conclusions are reached, further to that, how they are commented on with the accuracy that presumably backs up the poster's opinion. If any of these statements go beyond opinion and are fact based then I'll happily retract any critical comments.
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Factually I said Garner was " hangdog and miserable", no need to substantiate that surely? Where do you sit on match days?
 
Woodwardfan said:
Factually I said Garner was " hangdog and miserable", no need to substantiate that surely? Where do you sit on match days?
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Me? I'm disabled, so I get to games when my disability. When I can I tend to sit in the South Stand, a few feet behind the home dugout, so well placed to see exactly what goes on,

You included Garner in your collective criticism which you described as harsh and critical, so don't be disingenuous by suggesting otherwise.
 
itsinyerblood said:
Me? I'm disabled, so I get to games when my disability. When I can I tend to sit in the South Stand, a few feet behind the home dugout, so well placed to see exactly what goes on,

You included Garner in your collective criticism which you described as harsh and critical, so don't be disingenuous by suggesting otherwise.
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Hey, if you don't see Clough and Garner as harsh on their players from such a viewpoint them we must see things differently. Fair enough.

Recently I watched the U=21's and witnessed Morgan's coaching - it was primitive, believe me.
 
robbiez666 said:
round.

The defending was dreadful for the second. J-Mac, Basham and Harris.

QUOTE]

Unfortunately that's the second home game that Harris has been last man back and wussed out of a tackle to let in a goal.
I think someone else should stay back in future.
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One thing a side should be is well drilled and capable in set pieces (free-kicks and corners) for and against. Unfortunately my perception is we aren't as dominant as we should be. So sad old bugger I am I went through the goals for and against all season (league matches) and, to be honest, although we look desperate at times, the imbalance in the butcher's bill isn't as large as I had feared (by no means good though !!). I've not counted second phases in this btw and I am getting on so probably missed something-

Penalties scored from - 2 for (both against Colchester, home and away), 2 against (Swindon and Port Vale)
Corners scored from - 1 for (McNulty v Orient), 5 against (Peterborough, Orient, Barnsley, Notts County, Port Vale)
Free Kicks scored from - 4 (Bristol City, Rochdale, Preston, Colchester, ) 3 against (MK Dons, Preston, Crawley)

We haven't conceded from a corner in the league for 11 matches. Of the ones we have conceded the Orient, Barnsley, Notts County and Port Vale ones all cost us points. All of the free kicks scored from against us have cost us points.

We haven't scored from a corner in the league for 24 matches. Its 7 matches since we scored from a free kick.

Funnily enough, though I didn't specifically count them, we do seem to switch off at throw ins a lot. Make of that what you will.:D
 
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