Too old at u21s?

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Are players too old to make the transition from u21s to first team?

(I'm discounting u18s for this - it is really about how old are you when you're past it :eek:.)

This cropped up in another (DCL) thread and I think it has some merit but I wonder what evidence is? Has anyone made that u21s->first team step up?

One major barrier I think is physicality (and this was mentioned when DCL played at Orient last year, and got muscled out of it by their CBs).

In the development games the u21s will play other u21s; there'll be the odd grown-up thrown in here and there, but by and large the level of physicality will be well below a first team game.

Given this, one obvious place to develop is out on loan. Take a step or two down in technique and a step or three up in physicality, and develop from there.

But does it ever work out like that?

Does anyone ever make it from the u21s to the first team?

And if so what was the route they took?
 

Are players too old to make the transition from u21s to first team?

(I'm discounting u18s for this - it is really about how old are you when you're past it :eek:.)

This cropped up in another (DCL) thread and I think it has some merit but I wonder what evidence is? Has anyone made that u21s->first team step up?

One major barrier I think is physicality (and this was mentioned when DCL played at Orient last year, and got muscled out of it by their CBs).

In the development games the u21s will play other u21s; there'll be the odd grown-up thrown in here and there, but by and large the level of physicality will be well below a first team game.

Given this, one obvious place to develop is out on loan. Take a step or two down in technique and a step or three up in physicality, and develop from there.

But does it ever work out like that?

Does anyone ever make it from the u21s to the first team?

And if so what was the route they took?

Matty Lowton – from Academy to U21s to first team, via Hungary.
 
Harry went straight to the first team from the u21s.

As well as his quality, his size had loads to do with that too - as evidenced, in part*, by how long it's taken Tel Kennedy to establish himself (who was arguably just as good at u21 level).


* Realise you've got to take Terence's appalling injury history into account here too.
 
Harry went straight to the first team from the u21s.

As well as his quality, his size had loads to do with that too - as evidenced, in part*, by how long it's taken Tel Kennedy to establish himself (who was arguably just as good at u21 level).


* Realise you've got to take Terence's appalling injury history into account here too.


With good knees I recon we'd be discussing why we'd sold Kennedy to the first offer we had.
 
With good knees I recon we'd be discussing why we'd sold Kennedy to the first offer we had.

Well one obvious answer is that he's not big enough to be an effective centre-half. For that reason alone, I doubt there would be any significant offers. You see, the vast majority of managers are not Bladey Blades and those who are, are unemployable. Perhaps Mickey Adams would offer fifty grand?...
 
Well one obvious answer is that he's not big enough to be an effective centre-half. For that reason alone, I doubt there would be any significant offers. You see, the vast majority of managers are not Bladey Blades and those who are, are unemployable. Perhaps Mickey Adams would offer fifty grand?...

And how many appearances would Mr Shaw have made for you if you had been his manager?
 
Well one obvious answer is that he's not big enough to be an effective centre-half. For that reason alone, I doubt there would be any significant offers. You see, the vast majority of managers are not Bladey Blades and those who are, are unemployable. Perhaps Mickey Adams would offer fifty grand?...

He's the same height as Puyol and an inch taller than Cannavaro, two recent and highly successful examples of shorter-than-average centre-halves.

To look at his height and rule him out immediately is a fairly narrow-minded view – he's shown potential in defending against forwards much higher than him. It's his knees that are a concern at present, not his height.
 
He's the same height as Puyol and an inch taller than Cannavaro, two recent and highly successful examples of shorter-than-average centre-halves.

To look at his height and rule him out immediately is a fairly narrow-minded view – he's shown potential in defending against forwards much higher than him. It's his knees that are a concern at present, not his height.

In fact Pinchy, in the style of Shaun Murphenbauer, "Our Terry" shall henceforth be referred to as Terry Kennavaro.
 
Interesting OP. I think in most cases, players need to be playing ahead of their age group if they are to make it at a good level (Maguire, Slew etc in U21s when eligible for U18s, Reed in the first team when eligible for U18s etc).

If a player is say 20 and not getting a look in at first team level, it’s likely they won’t make it in my opinion. There are exceptions and some develop late. I would also exclude GKs from that rule but for most players to make it, you would expect them to be around the first team squad from around 18. But again, that depends on the depth of the squad. I think we had too many average senior pros on the books last season blocking the path of some of the youth. If we’d had a smaller squad but a better quality first eleven, supplemented by kids to play the odd game here and there, I think we might have done better.

There’s always those that don’t break in, drop down and work their way back up as well (Che Adams, Billy Sharp, Kyle McFadzean, Kevin Davies, Ricky Lambert, Grant Holt etc.).

As for Kennedy being too small to ever make an effective centre half. I’m sorry but that’s nonsense. Height is certainly an advantage for a centre half but there are plenty around Tel’s size who have made very good careers. Club legend Mr Morgs being an obvious example. If Kennedy had good knees, he would easily be a first team regular at League 1 level and maybe higher. Bladey blade or not.
 
Lads need to experience first team football between 18-21, whether that be short term or season long loans.

And with regards to Tel Kennedy, it's his knee and not height which is the issue. He is the best centre half we own. From the games I have seen him he reads the game brilliantly.
 
Well one obvious answer is that he's not big enough to be an effective centre-half. For that reason alone, I doubt there would be any significant offers. You see, the vast majority of managers are not Bladey Blades and those who are, are unemployable. Perhaps Mickey Adams would offer fifty grand?...

I've been reading this board for quite a while and always regarded you as one of the more intelligent posters, however I find on certain subjects (like Kennedy's height) you can be a bit of a contrarian and sometimes play devils advocate a little too readily.

While I agree that Kennedy isn't the ideal height for a centre half, as others have mentioned there have been enough world class centre halves [of the same or similar height] to theorise that it isn't the be all and end all.
 
My view is that if we'd not been relegated and were at the top end of the championship we'd still have the same youth players and would be looking at loaning them out to L1 and L2 sides.

Dane has already covered the relevant caveats so I won't repeat them.
If players haven't broken into the first team (not necessarily as regulars but at least as someone fairly reliable to act as cover) by the time they're 21, unless there's a good reason like injury, they're unlikely to be good enough.

I hope we will be back in the championship next season and if that's the case, 21 year olds who can't get into a L1 side aren't much use to us. They've all got technique but that isn't what makes a successful pro, it's just the starting point. You need to be mentally tough, physically robust and highly competitive.

I'd like all our kids to make it but the reality is most of them won't. For every Kyle or Lowton there's ten Slews, ten Ironsides and twenty kids who don't make it and give up.
 
Well one obvious answer is that he's not big enough to be an effective centre-half. For that reason alone, I doubt there would be any significant offers. You see, the vast majority of managers are not Bladey Blades and those who are, are unemployable. Perhaps Mickey Adams would offer fifty grand?...

Won 6
Drew 3
Lost 1

With Tel in the team last season.

As usual, you're welcome.
 
Well one obvious answer is that he's not big enough to be an effective centre-half. For that reason alone, I doubt there would be any significant offers. You see, the vast majority of managers are not Bladey Blades and those who are, are unemployable. Perhaps Mickey Adams would offer fifty grand?...

I particularly watched Kennedy at Hartlepool and he won every header. Yes it would be great if he were taller but it is certainly not an issue with the lad. Now his knees are an issue and could hold him back.

Oh and for those who wouldn't go even if we got to Wembley in the JPT there were about 500 Blades who made the trip to Hartlepool who would probably disagree.
 

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