The decisive moment

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What are you looking for Bergen? It was terrible defending but after a period of time where we must have been buzzing and the sheer adrenaline was likely to have been driving individual decisions, rather than being sensible and keeping disciplined.

You'll have your opinion and insight as always, I guess you're hanging on to it to see what everyone else says. I was only able to watch on a little telly whilst distracted, mostly by cunts, some of which were spurs.
 
All of our defenders are ball watching. No one tracks Eriksen.
 
Good OP Bergen.Why no analysis?

Marvellous run by Eriksen and that made the goal aided by that excellent ball by Kane. Having said that we should be defending that situation particularly when we had so many defenders back. I've watched the goal about 10 times on BBC and had concluded that Basham's turn the wrong way lost him a vital fraction of a second and sight of the ball and that was critical. Your second image above shows clearly that Flynn had the opportunity to track Eriksens run but was not quite on his toes. The angle on the BBC highlight didn't show Eriksen's run like your shot does.

The ball had been worked down our left from Walker who was under real pressure from a busy United midfield, then Strombolli played a nice ball to Kane under similar pressure. Kane had a bit of space to play his ball, a bit too much but we had put it on the other two well enough and it was highly competitive at that stage. In shot the nearest three midfielders to Kane also had an opportunity to restrict his space it seems. On the moving film do you think Scougall or Baxter or Reed should have reacted earlier? Why was Scougall so wide? Baxter had a another midfielder coming through perhaps. Doyle not on the field mind you, right in his area actually. .Even so the back line should still have had Eriksen covered.

When we play overlapping full backs it must be hard for them to be fully tuned in to every defensive situation.

Since Flynn played full back I think he has been excellent and I have questioned whether we should be spending such a big amount on a full back when we don't have strikers. Maybe that incident shows the need but actually, as much as I love watching Brayford, he is not the best full back defensively, not that that is the whole point of course.

Flynn had a very good game and in the second half did as much as anybody to turn the tide. However he is not a full back and at this level he was found out. Harris had his man marked right out wide. McEveley and Basham could maybe have been further right but Flynn should have kept his eye on Eriksen, that was his job in that situation.
 
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I've another view on this after talking to my son who observed on the night that Basham was a couple of yards behind Flynn and McEveley for no apparent reason. If he had been holding the line, as Flynn was probably hoping to do, there would have been less space for Kane to thread the ball through. To compound that Basham turned the wrong way and lost track of the ball. If Flynn was hoping to catch Eriksen offside then it was a mistake anyway and with Basham back there he really had to track the run.
 
The Doyle haters wont like it but had he been on he would have closed that down earlier. Some say he was poor ,but limiting Spurs to 2 set piece goals in over 160 minutes of football shows the job he does for Utd. Ok he doesn't give as much going forward but he does the dirty un noticed jobs that don't get the accolades ,don't forget Dembele was on too when Doyle was on, arguably their best player with Eriksen. We will miss him when he isn't there .
 
Woodwardfan said:
Good OP Bergen.Why no analysis?

Marvellous run by Eriksen and that made the goal aided by that excellent ball by Kane. Having said that we should be defending that situation particularly when we had so many defenders back. I've watched the goal about 10 times on BBC and had concluded that Basham's turn the wrong way lost him a vital fraction of a second and sight of the ball and that was critical. Your second image above shows clearly that Flynn had the opportunity to track Eriksens run but was not quite on his toes. The angle on the BBC highlight didn't show Eriksen's run like your shot does.

The ball had been worked down our left from Walker who was under real pressure from a busy United midfield, then Strombolli played a nice ball to Kane under similar pressure. Kane had a bit of space to play his ball, a bit too much but we had put it on the other two well enough and it was highly competitive at that stage. In shot the nearest three midfielders to Kane also had an opportunity to restrict his space it seems. On the moving film do you think Scougall or Baxter or Reed should have reacted earlier? Why was Scougall so wide? Baxter had a another midfielder coming through perhaps. Doyle not on the field mind you, right in his area actually. .Even so the back line should still have had Eriksen covered.

When we play overlapping full backs it must be hard for them to be fully tuned in to every defensive situation.

Since Flynn played full back I think he has been excellent and I have questioned whether we should be spending such a big amount on a full back when we don't have strikers. Maybe that incident shows the need but actually, as much as I love watching Brayford, he is not the best full back defensively, not that that is the whole point of course.

Flynn had a very good game and in the second half did as much as anybody to turn the tide. However he is not a full back and at this level he was found out. Harris had his man marked right out wide. McEveley and Basham could maybe have been further right but Flynn should have kept his eye on Eriksen, that was his job in that situation.
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Don't think Flynn can be blamed ,he had to go over or Eriksen would have been completely free. Also look at Murphy not watching the full back ,if Kane had delayed ,a pass to the left would have seen the full back in the clear. Maybe we are being harsh though ,this the last few minutes of a long hard encounter against better players from a higher level ,tiredness affects the brain as well as the legs.
 

And that exact moment shows why Brayford has been signed. Agreed not the best defensively but Alcock doesn't offer anything going forward and Flynn's positioning and initial decision to move forward game Erikson the space he needed and the rest is history.

Sounds tough on Flynn who has probably surprised everyone at RB but moments like this define games.
 
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sitwell said:
The Doyle haters wont like it but had he been on he would have closed that down earlier. Some say he was poor ,but limiting Spurs to 2 set piece goals in over 160 minutes of football shows the job he does for Utd. Ok he doesn't give as much going forward but he does the dirty un noticed jobs that don't get the accolades ,don't forget Dembele was on too when Doyle was on, arguably their best player with Eriksen. We will miss him when he isn't there .
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The flipside to that argument would be that had Doyle been on, the defence would have been 5-10 yards further back and Flynn wouldn't have got forward to be involved in our two goals. We also would have still been 0-1 down on the night.

Doyle does a very good job when we need to be defensive. Taking him off with 25 mins to go and we need 2+ goals tells you all you need to know about his contribution to an attacking United line-up.

On the OP - I can't really blame Flynn. He's already in the wrong half of the pitch as he's closer to the left touchline than the right; then you've got Basham and McEveley both marking space. At the end of the day, that was a Premiership-class run, pass and finish in the 88th minute of a game which we were on the defensive for much of.
 
Balham Blade said:
The flipside to that argument would be that had Doyle been on, the defence would have been 5-10 yards further back and Flynn wouldn't have got forward to be involved in our two goals. We also would have still been 0-1 down on the night.

Doyle does a very good job when we need to be defensive. Taking him off with 25 mins to go and we need 2+ goals tells you all you need to know about his contribution to an attacking United line-up.

On the OP - I can't really blame Flynn. He's already in the wrong half of the pitch as he's closer to the left touchline than the right; then you've got Basham and McEveley both marking space. At the end of the day, that was a Premiership-class run, pass and finish in the 88th minute of a game which we were on the defensive for much of.
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Have to agree with that. Is it not the job of the CB's to mark the opposition CF? One of them should have been much closer to him.
 
Balham Blade said:
On the OP - I can't really blame Flynn. He's already in the wrong half of the pitch as he's closer to the left touchline than the right; then you've got Basham and McEveley both marking space. At the end of the day, that was a Premiership-class run, pass and finish in the 88th minute of a game which we were on the defensive for much of.
Click to expand...

Darren said:
Have to agree with that. Is it not the job of the CB's to mark the opposition CF? One of them should have been much closer to him.
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Largely Basham and Flynn's fault from a defensive perspective for me.

McEveley Is covering Harris in case townsend(?) gets beyond him.

Basham needed to get tighter, and Flynn is too slow to respond.
 
Highbury_Blade said:
Largely Basham and Flynn's fault from a defensive perspective for me.

McEveley Is covering Harris in case townsend(?) gets beyond him.

Basham needed to get tighter, and Flynn is too slow to respond.
Click to expand...

Probably a bit of lack of communication as well. Flynn seems to have a half arsed idea of playing offside, but Basham is too deep.
 
sitwell said:
The Doyle haters wont like it but had he been on he would have closed that down earlier. Some say he was poor ,but limiting Spurs to 2 set piece goals in over 160 minutes of football shows the job he does for Utd. Ok he doesn't give as much going forward but he does the dirty un noticed jobs that don't get the accolades ,don't forget Dembele was on too when Doyle was on, arguably their best player with Eriksen. We will miss him when he isn't there .
Click to expand...


Agree with that, but the other side of the equation is that we may not have scored our two goals if he was still on the pitch.
 
I thought that when Harris injured himself, he took time to recover and McEvely was further over covering Harris and consequently everyone was a little further left. Spurs attackers recognised this and exploited it. I cannot remember if Flynn had just come back from an attacking move in which case where did his cover go? If Flynn was already in and around where he was he still needed someone to spot the potential 1 on 1 situation but then that is why we are league one and them Premiership.
 
Can we please stop referring to this as a great pass?

It's a great finish and a Premiership quality move, especially given the pressure, but I could honestly have played that ball and would be rightly pissed off with myself if I'd messed it up. With that gap, it's easy.

Can't say I blame anyone really. They were all knackered having given it everything, physically and mentally, for 90 mins.
 
Borbokisfreekick said:
As Woodwardfan states, it was Flynn's fault for the goal.

He got caught ball watching and was the wrong side of Eriksen, if he was goalside, Eriksen doesn't score.
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Carefull, Borbokis. You're slagging off Flynn. Not allowed.

pommpey
 
Lots of good points on this thread, together we've got most things covered.

First of all:
  1. The situation is difficult to deal with
  2. Tottenham show their quality by taking advantage, great accuracy and timing, good forward movement and more than one passing options for the man on the ball
Mitigating factors:

  • We were pushing forward at the time, our mental focus was probably still set on scoring goals
  • Reshuffled team and formation
    • Murphy had been given an attacking free role
    • Our usual defensive midfielder had been sacrificed
  • Adams and Scougs had pressed aggressively, though not won the ball. Reed pushed over, but couldn't get there.
  • Tiredness (Flynn had been bombing forward superbly several times, including for both our goals)

Tactical stuff:

Holding midfielder's position:

The two first photos shows Baxter's weight being on his right foot. He's possibly anticipating a square pass to Mason, who wants it. Again, it's a difficult situation for him, especially as he's inexperienced in the role.

In my opinion he should have pushed over to close the path of the through ball. That was the main danger. More than likely he could have intercepted the pass, or made Kane pass to Mason. Again, that may have become a difficult situation, but it would have been preferable to a pass in behind the defence.


Position of defence:

A general rule:

  • Man on the ball not closed down: Drop deeper to prevent space behind.
  • Man on the ball closed down: Consider pushing up collectively to play an runner offside

In any case: keep a straight line


Our backline, effectively consisting of Flynn, Basham and McEveley, was not straight. It is true that Basham is deepest, and he is the one playing Eriksen onside. But at the same time he can claim that Kane is not closed down at all, and they should all be dropping deep. Like Baxter I think Flynn has one eye on Mason, and is probably knackered from his forward runs. He should have tried to stay goalside of Eriksen, as an offside trap was not on.


Should a centre half followed Kane as he dropped back?

I don't think so. In an old fashioned man marking system McEveley would probably have followed him, but the way we're trying to do things, he was right to leave him to midfielders. Centre halves should only break out of the back line when they have to. McEveley was originally maybe a bit too high up, and a bit slow/hesitant to drop back.


Conclusion:

We had a momentary lapse of organisation. Our aim to attack probably played a big part in letting Tottenham first find space between our midfield and defence, and then behind our defence.
 
Watching back I wonder if Flynn showed his tiredness too by not getting across and trying to block once Eriksen had the ball. He has to be forgiven, it was his superb run and cross that got us back in it anyway.
 

Bergen Blade said:
Lots of good points on this thread, together we've got most things covered.

First of all:
  1. The situation is difficult to deal with
  2. Tottenham show their quality by taking advantage, great accuracy and timing, good forward movement and more than one passing options for the man on the ball
Mitigating factors:

  • We were pushing forward at the time, our mental focus was probably still set on scoring goals
  • Reshuffled team and formation
    • Murphy had been given an attacking free role
    • Our usual defensive midfielder had been sacrificed
  • Adams and Scougs had pressed aggressively, though not won the ball. Reed pushed over, but couldn't get there.
  • Tiredness (Flynn had been bombing forward superbly several times, including for both our goals)

Tactical stuff:

Holding midfielder's position:

The two first photos shows Baxter's weight being on his right foot. He's possibly anticipating a square pass to Mason, who wants it. Again, it's a difficult situation for him, especially as he's inexperienced in the role.

In my opinion he should have pushed over to close the path of the through ball. That was the main danger. More than likely he could have intercepted the pass, or made Kane pass to Mason. Again, that may have become a difficult situation, but it would have been preferable to a pass in behind the defence.


Position of defence:

A general rule:

  • Man on the ball not closed down: Drop deeper to prevent space behind.
  • Man on the ball closed down: Consider pushing up collectively to play an runner offside

In any case: keep a straight line


Our backline, effectively consisting of Flynn, Basham and McEveley, was not straight. It is true that Basham is deepest, and he is the one playing Eriksen onside. But at the same time he can claim that Kane is not closed down at all, and they should all be dropping deep. Like Baxter I think Flynn has one eye on Mason, and is probably knackered from his forward runs. He should have tried to stay goalside of Eriksen, as an offside trap was not on.


Should a centre half followed Kane as he dropped back?

I don't think so. In an old fashioned man marking system McEveley would probably have followed him, but the way we're trying to do things, he was right to leave him to midfielders. Centre halves should only break out of the back line when they have to. McEveley was originally maybe a bit too high up, and a bit slow/hesitant to drop back.


Conclusion:

We had a momentary lapse of organisation. Our aim to attack probably played a big part in letting Tottenham first find space between our midfield and defence, and then behind our defence.
Click to expand...
Did I not cover most of that? Also if not mentioned before. Flynn looks like he wants to play offside and seems to start to step then realise. As for the line Flynn should actually be slightly deeper than Basham. he is probably not because as you mention he was bombing forward.
It should be mentioned however that this is not a desire for all to blame someone and if someone takes it so they should remember Flynn did fantastic finding the the cross for the first goal. It was Flynn who split the defence for Murphy to find the cross for the second and it was Flynn who played it Reed superbly splitting their defence for what should have been the winner and we would all be talking about Flynn as a midfield maestro.
 
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