The Academy

[CopenhagenBlade]

It is great to see/hear about all these fine young players that we have coming through the system at the moment, whether it be Reed, Diego, Diamio, Khan or a couple of the others that are on the fringes of the first team.
Is this the Clogh effect, that he is actually giving them a chance and thus raising our awareness of them or is it because this is realistically how long it takes for the Academy to really start bearing fruit?

Either way it is great to see and adds to the positive feel about the club at the moment

 

[zablade]

Clough is know for giving kids their chance, any academy that produce one player every two seasons who goes on to have a career is doing well.

When was the last time any of the big clubs in England produced a real star from their academy? Scratching my head trying to think of one in the last three or four years.

Our academy is doing very well and I can't believe the slagging it get from some people on other forums.

 

[Silent Blade]

I think Simon Clough has a very good knowledge of the best academy players throughout the country. Only two of our last season's u16s squad have been given scholarships (Danny Ramsey and Jorome Slew) and we have offered scholarships to at least 5 players who have never played for our Academy before they agreed to sign for us two months ago. Dont know for definite if we have made many players changes to the other age groups but I hear that we have. The problem is that PL clubs now have more power to sign our players and offer little compensation

 

[SwissBlade]

It is great to see/hear about all these fine young players that we have coming through the system at the moment, whether it be Reed, Diego, Diamio, Khan or a couple of the others that are on the fringes of the first team.
Is this the Clogh effect, that he is actually giving them a chance and thus raising our awareness of them or is it because this is realistically how long it takes for the Academy to really start bearing fruit?

Either way it is great to see and adds to the positive feel about the club at the moment

I read a month or so back that our academy is the 8th best academy for producing talent in England... So I think it's already been bearing fruit.

 

[Silent Blade]

I read a month or so back that our academy is the 8th best academy for producing talent in England... So I think it's already been bearing fruit.

Got a link for the article please?

 

[SwissBlade]

Got a link for the article please?

No, sorry. It was on the star website in an article about the pigs academy now being at the same level as ours, the pigs were saying that the could now compete against local academies like ours. The star reporter pointed out that our academy was the 8th best producer in the country.

I mentioned it before a few weeks ago and I don't know what the basis is for being so high up, but given the players who've come through in recent years it's not too far fetched.

 

[wizadry]

I read a month or so back that our academy is the 8th best academy for producing talent in England... So I think it's already been bearing fruit.

Just to add to that swiss,its been very good for a few years now,its either having the right manager to play them or the board backing the manager to play them.

What i would say is our youngsters at our academy over the years would have propably not put us in the shity position we find ourselves in now if they would have been played,but thats all another story.The shit wev'e had at our club over the last 4 years or so has been astonishing really and if we would have given the young uns a chance they wouldn't have done any worse imo,and for the board and a club as a whole would have worked out a hell of a lot cheaper.

 

[Silent Blade]

No, sorry. It was on the star website in an article about the pigs academy now being at the same level as ours, the pigs were saying that the could now compete against local academies like ours. The star reporter pointed out that our academy was the 8th best producer in the country.

I mentioned it before a few weeks ago and I don't know what the basis is for being so high up, but given the players who've come through in recent years it's not too far fetched.

As our Academy is now in Category 2, we now have less power in keeping our Academy players. If I was a parent I would advise him to stay at an Academy that have a good reputation in giving youngsters a chance in the 1st team rather than sign for a Category 1 Academy

 

[Bladesway]

Clough is know for giving kids their chance, any academy that produce one player every two seasons who goes on to have a career is doing well.

When was the last time any of the big clubs in England produced a real star from their academy? Scratching my head trying to think of one in the last three or four years.

Our academy is doing very well and I can't believe the slagging it get from some people on other forums.

See my England World Cup thread for my thoughts on that but in short the Premier League Clubs academies are stuffed full of young players from abroad and have no actual benefit to the England team. Its one of the key problems of the self serving shower of twats that sit at the top of the game ruining it.

 

[alcoblade]

Our academy is doing very well and I can't believe the slagging it get from some people on other forums.

I'm not sure it needs slagging, but your assertion that it's doing very well is debatable. I'd doubt it has even broke even overall, and last year we finished in our lowest league position in over 30 years. Come the end of that season, I think we had one academy player who was a regular.

UTB

 

[wizadry]

I'm not sure it needs slagging, but your assertion that it's doing very well is debatable. I'd doubt it has even broke even overall, and last year we finished in our lowest league position in over 30 years. Come the end of that season, I think we had one academy player who was a regular.

UTB

Is that because they are crap,or are the managers we have had in recent years just not playing them?

Lets be fair they wouldn't have done any worse than the shower we have had in recent seasons.

 

[alcoblade]

Is that because they are crap,or are the managers we have had in recent years just not playing them?

Lets be fair they wouldn't have done any worse than the shower we have had in recent seasons.

But that's a different measure - being arguably less crap than the biggest load of crap we've had in 30 years could not be a measure of success.

In any case, I think most people agree Clough is a decent manager - his assessment of the academy was that only 1 player was worth a starting place in our worst squad in over 3 decades.

Another hard measure of the academy is the reality that we're worse now than we were without it.

Overall, I'm quite ambivalent to it, but not convinced that if the time, energy and funding were targeted towards finding the best young talent out there from other clubs, we wouldn't have been better off overall.

UTB

 

[wizadry]

But that's a different measure - being arguably less crap than the biggest load of crap we've had in 30 years could not be a measure of success.

In any case, I think most people agree Clough is a decent manager - his assessment of the academy was that only 1 player was worth a starting place in our worst squad in over 3 decades.

Another hard measure of the academy is the reality that we're worse now than we were without it.

Overall, I'm quite ambivalent to it, but not convinced that if the time, energy and funding were targeted towards finding the best young talent out there from other clubs, we wouldn't have been better off overall.

UTB

In clough you trust,hmmm

 

[Punk Blade]

I think our ability to produce players is good. The odd thing is, of those that make a career, we seem to mostly produce players that end up above our current level (Jags, Kyles, Lowton) or below it (Forte, Hurst, most of that team), and rarely players that are suited to our current league status or can grow with us.

I consider us a rival to the front runners in terms of producing players with the potential to have successful careers and producing good teams at academy level like Crewe, Southampton, Liverpool, West Ham. I'm not as convinced by Chelsea, Arsenal or Man U as they seem to have a lot of foreign kids coming through.

 

[SelbyBlade]

As our Academy is now in Category 2, we now have less power in keeping our Academy players. If I was a parent I would advise him to stay at an Academy that have a good reputation in giving youngsters a chance in the 1st team rather than sign for a Category 1 Academy

I can stand corrected if you like however the main and really only significant difference between a Cat 1 and Cat 2 is that a Cat1 has accommodation so that kids can come that are over 90mins away. As far as I know there are no other significant differences other than reputation.

 

[Silent Blade]

I think our ability to produce players is good. The odd thing is, of those that make a career, we seem to mostly produce players that end up above our current level (Jags, Kyles, Lowton)

We signed Jags after he was released by Everton at 15. We were going to release Lowton but he came back a better player after his loan spell at Ferencvaros

 

[Silent Blade]

I can stand corrected if you like however the main and really only significant difference between a Cat 1 and Cat 2 is that a Cat1 has accommodation so that kids can come that are over 90mins away. As far as I know there are no other significant differences other than reputation.

yes there is another significant difference, PL clubs can give a trial to any of our Academy players at anytime and if they want to sign the player(s), the compensation fee is now very small compared to the £1M fee we received from Chelsea for Jacob Mellis a few years ago. See link for the compensation fees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Player_Performance_Plan

 

[Bladesway]

Is that because they are crap,or are the managers we have had in recent years just not playing them?

Lets be fair they wouldn't have done any worse than the shower we have had in recent seasons.

Do you honestly think that given the fact we have had little to no pulling power financially for players externally a manager would overlook an academy player? Alco nails it that being about as crap as the shit we have had is hardly a ringing endorsement. Also take our striker situation wouldn't you think there would be a good young Un banging goals in that Clough would put in if he existed?

I think our much trumped academy may wash it's face but it isn't really doing what they said it would when it was set up.

 

[Punk Blade]

We signed Jags after he was released by Everton at 15. We were going to release Lowton but he came back a better player after his loan spell at Ferencvaros

And they're both Premier League players now.

 

[Silent Blade]

And they're both Premier League players now.

and?

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Do you honestly think that given the fact we have had little to no pulling power financially for players externally a manager would overlook an academy player? Alco nails it that being about as crap as the shit we have had is hardly a ringing endorsement. Also take our striker situation wouldn't you think there would be a good young Un banging goals in that Clough would put in if he existed?

I think our much trumped academy may wash it's face but it isn't really doing what they said it would when it was set up.

8th best in the country at producing professional players. What was promised? It would generate a new world banking system? It would finally find a cure for cancer? Solve the homeless crisis? End world poverty?

They are bastards McCabe & co, promising all this stuff from the academy and all it does is produce professional footballers. I mean, let's not examine that stat too closely. 8th best? They should be ashamed. I mean who has greater pulling power at attracting kids to sign?

Man Utd
Man City
Liverpool
Arsenal
Spurs
Chelsea
Newcastle
West Ham
Southampton
Aston Villa

The fact that somehow they are only out performing 2 from that list really is shameful. We need answers about this failure to deliver NOW!

 

[Bladesway]

What was promised?
The fact that somehow they are only out performing 2 from that list really is shameful. We need answers about this failure to deliver NOW!

What was promised? A production line of English talent that was regularly gracing the first team. I would love to know anyone can quantify 8th best. I don't think the Academy is a bad thing, but I don't think it is anything like what was promised when it was put together. This production line of talent hasn't emerged in my estimation.

I don't think there was anything in my previous post that made your thermo nuclear sarcasm explosion necessary. Its done OK, but it isn't what was mooted at the time. A bit like Europe in 5 years.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

What was promised? A production line of English talent that was regularly gracing the first team. I would love to know anyone can quantify 8th best. I don't think the Academy is a bad thing, but I don't think it is anything like what was promised when it was put together. This production line of talent hasn't emerged in my estimation.

I don't think there was anything in my previous post that made your thermo nuclear sarcasm explosion necessary. Its done OK, but it isn't what was mooted at the time. A bit like Europe in 5 years.

Well since it's inception in it's current guise, there's a full 11 team from it at least. Now the fact is that nearly all of those have been transferred out after featuring (however briefly, or not at all in one case) in the first team. That this 11 is not turning out every week in a Blades shirt isn't the fault of the academy. Seems blindingly obvious to me that it has satisifed it's remit with a production line of English talent, hence the sarcasm.

 

[Bladesway]

Well since it's inception in it's current guise, there's a full 11 team from it at least. Now the fact is that nearly all of those have been transferred out after featuring (however briefly, or not at all in one case) in the first team. That this 11 is not turning out every week in a Blades shirt isn't the fault of the academy. Seems blindingly obvious to me that it has satisifed it's remit with a production line of English talent, hence the sarcasm.

Go on then........

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

A list of players from the academy currently playing professional football in England. I left out Jagielka, Montgomery, Tonge et al as they were graduates of the academy in a different guise. I also haven't included any of the current crop who have made 1st team appearances except Maguire, as he would be classed as established.

George Long
Kyle Walker
Kyle Naughton
Matt Lowton
Harry Maguire
Stephen Quinn
Jordan Slew
Jacob Mellis
Kyle MacFadzean
Callum MacFadzean
Connor Brown
Scott Boden
Jordan Chapell
Adam Chapman
Ryan Cresswell
Matt Harriott
Evan Horwood
Jonathan Forte
Kevan Hurst
Kingsley James
Nicky Law
Ben Purkiss
Billy Sharp
Chris Robertson
Jake Speight
Sam Wedgbury

There may well be a few I've missed. But you get the general idea.

 

[alcoblade]

A list of players from the academy currently playing professional football in England. I left out Jagielka, Montgomery, Tonge et al as they were graduates of the academy in a different guise. I also haven't included any of the current crop who have made 1st team appearances except Maguire, as he would be classed as established.

George Long
Kyle Walker
Kyle Naughton
Matt Lowton
Harry Maguire
Stephen Quinn
Jordan Slew
Jacob Mellis
Kyle MacFadzean
Callum MacFadzean
Connor Brown
Scott Boden
Jordan Chapell
Adam Chapman
Ryan Cresswell
Matt Harriott
Evan Horwood
Jonathan Forte
Kevan Hurst
Kingsley James
Nicky Law
Ben Purkiss
Billy Sharp
Chris Robertson
Jake Speight
Sam Wedgbury

There may well be a few I've missed. But you get the general idea.

Sorry fella, I don't get the idea. Unless they're playing for us, or have generated income far in excess of cost, I don't see the point in it. And right now I seriously doubt that that lits has paid for the running costs of the academy. And as I said before, last year only Harry Maguire was a regular - so for me it's not really doing it's job for us.

UTB

 

[Darren]

A list of players from the academy currently playing professional football in England. I left out Jagielka, Montgomery, Tonge et al as they were graduates of the academy in a different guise. I also haven't included any of the current crop who have made 1st team appearances except Maguire, as he would be classed as established.

George Long
Kyle Walker
Kyle Naughton
Matt Lowton
Harry Maguire
Stephen Quinn
Jordan Slew
Jacob Mellis
Kyle MacFadzean
Callum MacFadzean
Connor Brown
Scott Boden
Jordan Chapell
Adam Chapman
Ryan Cresswell
Matt Harriott
Evan Horwood
Jonathan Forte
Kevan Hurst
Kingsley James
Nicky Law
Ben Purkiss
Billy Sharp
Chris Robertson
Jake Speight
Sam Wedgbury

There may well be a few I've missed. But you get the general idea.

In terms of level of support and resources, United's "natural" position is the top half of the second tier/struggling top tier in a good year. Of the players you mention only Walker, Naughton, Lowton, Quinn and Sharp have been good enough for a career at that level in, what, 12 years?

That may have something to do with our current predicament.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Sorry fella, I don't get the idea. Unless they're playing for us, or have generated income far in excess of cost, I don't see the point in it. And right now I seriously doubt that that lits has paid for the running costs of the academy. And as I said before, last year only Harry Maguire was a regular - so for me it's not really doing it's job for us.

UTB

Well of course, you never get to know transfer fees fully, the old undisclosed nonsense, but I reckon conservatively there's £13m there.

 

[Bladesway]

A list of players from the academy currently playing professional football in England. I left out Jagielka, Montgomery, Tonge et al as they were graduates of the academy in a different guise. I also haven't included any of the current crop who have made 1st team appearances except Maguire, as he would be classed as established.

George Long
Kyle Walker
Kyle Naughton
Matt Lowton
Harry Maguire
Stephen Quinn
Jordan Slew
Jacob Mellis
Kyle MacFadzean
Callum MacFadzean
Connor Brown
Scott Boden
Jordan Chapell
Adam Chapman
Ryan Cresswell
Matt Harriott
Evan Horwood
Jonathan Forte
Kevan Hurst
Kingsley James
Nicky Law
Ben Purkiss
Billy Sharp
Chris Robertson
Jake Speight
Sam Wedgbury

There may well be a few I've missed. But you get the general idea.

I do and to all intents and purposes you are right, its a list of people in professional football. The ones I would take out as the stand out worthwhiles are as follows:-

Kyles x 2
Long
Lowton
Harry
Stephen Quinn (although I thought he came as part of a package with Alan Quinn)
Billy Sharp

These are the ones who would or could have made a positive difference to us. Nicky Law is arguable and the rest are dross dropping through the trapdoor into non league. Long is in my opinion a good keeper but he may yet end up dropping through the same trap door.

If you are arguing we produce professional footballers, you have me. If you are saying we are producing a conveyor belt of talent I would say you are on shaky ground. I don't say its a failure and I don't say people should be hung for trying, I just say we should be honest about its contribution.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

In terms of level of support and resources, United's "natural" position is the top half of the second tier/struggling top tier in a good year. Of the players you mention only Walker, Naughton, Lowton, Quinn and Sharp have been good enough for a career at that level in, what, 12 years?

That may have something to do with our current predicament.

Back to the list of PL clubs I produced earlier. The issue of attracting players doesn't just apply to the 1st team, but also at academy level as well. Which is why Man Utd still attract the best young talent here and Fleetwood struggle. Given our position for the last few seasons, struggling Chmapionship club and then league 1 club, I'd warrant that the academy is over-achieving in terms of players. I also think that the original concept of the academy providing a steady stream of players for the 1st team was made with every expectation of the club being a top Championship/PL team and thus able to attract better young talent to the academy.