Steve Davies.

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Woodwardfan

Woodwardfan

Woodwardfan
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Career: Played 227 goals 47, that's a goal every five games thereabouts.

Looks a good all-round centre-forward, but from what I've seen he doesn't get into many scoring situations.

The Davies and Done partnership would have promise. Done played alongside Henderson at Rochdale and they both scored loads of goals.

Mind you we are so busy packing midfield and protecting the defence ( who concede goals anyway).

Suggest ( the obvious) 4-4-2, Davies and Done up front. Murphy and Flynn wide midfield. Doyle and Reed preferably and maybe Scougall or Baxter in central midfield. Scougall and Baxter two excellent attacking subs in various positions.

Press high upfield with Brayford and Harris intent on pushing the wide men forward or overlapping them.

Basham and Kennedy in central defence demanding protection from Doyle and at least one full back.

Substitutions: Get Campbell-Ryce back. Use Adams and McNulty.

Who cares if we let the odd goal in -we'd score plenty.

Let's go and WIN promotion not just Hope we can nick it. We have the best squad, there are thirty odd of us.
 

Woodwardfan said:
Career: Played 227 goals 47, that's a goal every five games thereabouts.

Looks a good all-round centre-forward, but from what I've seen he doesn't get into many scoring situations.

The Davies and Done partnership would have promise. Done played alongside Henderson at Rochdale and they both scored loads of goals.

Mind you we are so busy packing midfield and protecting the defence ( who concede goals anyway).

Suggest ( the obvious) 4-4-2, Davies and Done up front. Murphy and Flynn wide midfield. Doyle and Reed preferably and maybe Scougall or Baxter in central midfield. Scougall and Baxter two excellent attacking subs in various positions.

Press high upfield with Brayford and Harris intent on pushing the wide men forward or overlapping them.

Basham and Kennedy in central defence demanding protection from Doyle and at least one full back.

Substitutions: Get Campbell-Ryce back. Use Adams and McNulty.

Who cares if we let the odd goal in -we'd score plenty.

Let's go and WIN promotion not just Hope we can nick it. We have the best squad, there are thirty odd of us.
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Got to agree with Woodward's stirring speech! I don't want to just limp over the playoff line.
While I agree that 4-4-2 hasn't served us well, I think in Davies and done we now have the players to make it work.
 
Problem we have is that there is no combination from any of our midfielders that will provide a strong enough partnership to boss a midfield in a 4-4-2 so we get over run. This means that we revert back to a 4-5-1 to cover one deficiency, in so doing this creates another in the goal scoring department as the 5 man midfield don't get up and support the lone striker. So, in a diminutive 5, we keep possession a lot but not in a part of the pitch we can affect the outcome of the game - unless the desired outcome is to keep the ball to prevent ourselves us from scoring - which we seem to be very effective at.
 
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Kenilworth said:
Problem we have is that there is no combination from any of our midfielders that will provide a strong enough partnership to boss a midfield in a 4-4-2 so we get over run. This means that we revert back to a 4-5-1 to cover one deficiency, in so doing this creates another in the goal scoring department as the 5 man midfield don't get up and support the lone striker. So, in a diminutive 5, we keep possession a lot but not in a part of the pitch we can affect the outcome of the game - unless the desired outcome is to keep the ball to prevent ourselves us from scoring - which we seem to be very effective at.
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Spot on. There lies the dilemma.

Baxter and Scougall don't fit into 4-4-2 unless they are one of the front two.

I think it's time to give Reed his head and the encouragement to see his future with us. Murphy and Flynn can tuck inside when we don't have possession but when we do have the ball they can go wide if they wish, if not the full back can sprint up there.

The key to 4-4-2 is for the full backs to supplement midfield. Take the game to them rather than cover their every possible move.

We concede enough goals with 5 in midfield anyway. If we get caught on the break, and we won't that often because we'll have plenty to press high up the field, give the foul away, take a card for the team if necessary.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Spot on. There lies the dilemma.

Baxter and Scougall don't fit into 4-4-2 unless they are one of the front two.

I think it's time to give Reed his head and the encouragement to see his future with us. Murphy and Flynn can tuck inside when we don't have possession but when we do have the ball they can go wide if they wish, if not the full back can sprint up there.

The key to 4-4-2 is for the full backs to supplement midfield. Take the game to them rather than cover their every possible move.

We concede enough goals with 5 in midfield anyway. If we get caught on the break, and we won't that often because we'll have plenty to press high up the field, give the foul away, take a card for the team if necessary.
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Reed and J Wallace might be the combination we are looking for .... unfortunately ..........





Reed being R2D2 and Wallace is the C3PO equivalent = these are the droids you are looking for
 
Kenilworth said:
Reed and J Wallace might be the combination we are looking for .... unfortunately ..........





Reed being R2D2 and Wallace is the C3PO equivalent = these are the droids you are looking for
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Not really droids, just a normal box to box midfielder like all those thousands who used to play in a 4-4-2 formation before 4-5-1 came along.

I really do think we need to be less bothered about protecting our back 4 in League 1. In fact if we need 5 in midfield then play 3 at the back.

Every team that visits Bramall Lane plays with 1 up front. We respond to that by playing 4 at the back and 5 in midfield. When Brayford or Harris push forward you see Flynn and sometimes Murphy diligently dropping back to cover -absolute f'ing nonsense football. This is League 1, not chess, not Champions League.

Play the game where they are uncomfortable. Get men in and around their box. 5 in midfield is overcrowded and leads to tappy tappy football with players getting in each others' way and not taking responsibility. If there's nobody within 10 yards of you then there's no easy sideways ball - hoo.. f'ing.. ray!!
 
Woodwardfan said:
Career: Played 227 goals 47, that's a goal every five games thereabouts.

Looks a good all-round centre-forward, but from what I've seen he doesn't get into many scoring situations.

The Davies and Done partnership would have promise. Done played alongside Henderson at Rochdale and they both scored loads of goals.

Mind you we are so busy packing midfield and protecting the defence ( who concede goals anyway).

Suggest ( the obvious) 4-4-2, Davies and Done up front. Murphy and Flynn wide midfield. Doyle and Reed preferably and maybe Scougall or Baxter in central midfield. Scougall and Baxter two excellent attacking subs in various positions.

Press high upfield with Brayford and Harris intent on pushing the wide men forward or overlapping them.

Basham and Kennedy in central defence demanding protection from Doyle and at least one full back.

Substitutions: Get Campbell-Ryce back. Use Adams and McNulty.

Who cares if we let the odd goal in -we'd score plenty.

Let's go and WIN promotion not just Hope we can nick it. We have the best squad, there are thirty odd of us.
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Davies is doing all right as leader of the line, he just needs to start contributing a few goals (1 in 4 would be fine).

I don't think Clough is packing the midfield to protect the defence, especially so at the minute with Coutts in ahead of Doyle. Even with Doyle in the team I'd say he's playing a 5 in midfield to control the game - the other four in midfield Reed, Baxter,Murph and Flynn are all attacking midfield or wide players. Our problem all season has been the lack of proper centre halves, he's brought in the forwards everyone has claimed we need and we're still losing. It's at the back where we've been conceding stupid, soft goals, a clean sheet last Saturday and we'd have won 1-0, as would have been the case in many other games (Fleetwood and Peterborough in recent games for eg, but there are many others).
 
SUFC Handsworth said:
Davies is doing all right as leader of the line, he just needs to start contributing a few goals (1 in 4 would be fine).

I don't think Clough is packing the midfield to protect the defence, especially so at the minute with Coutts in ahead of Doyle. Even with Doyle in the team I'd say he's playing a 5 in midfield to control the game - the other four in midfield Reed, Baxter,Murph and Flynn are all attacking midfield or wide players. Our problem all season has been the lack of proper centre halves, he's brought in the forwards everyone has claimed we need and we're still losing. It's at the back where we've been conceding stupid, soft goals, a clean sheet last Saturday and we'd have won 1-0, as would have been the case in many other games (Fleetwood and Peterborough in recent games for eg, but there are many others).
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Good point re centre halves but you quote last Saturday as an example.

Crewe really should have had 3 goals in the first half. No centre half in the world could have prevented the two opportunities their little left winger spurned nor the winning goal. 5 men in midfield all leaving responsibility to everybody else. With no Doyle to fill in where needed we are always wide open from midfield funnily enough even though there are 5 of them. The goal they scored was available because the centre forward dropped into the space between midfield and the back 4 to play that little through ball for the assist. That lad Dalle Valle made a sublime run. He's a good player who did us at Bramall Lane twice I think two years ago for Crewe, on loan from Fulham at the time. Did our Head Scout even know he existed?
 
SwissBlade said:
I think we'd be taking a big step backwards if we went to 4-4-2 now.
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If wallace was fit and firing i'd be tempted on 4 in midfield - without wallace, I agree with your comments - it has to be a 5, with someone allowed a bit of freedom.

UTB
 
AnonymousBlade1995 said:
we have tried 442 and we just don't have the midfielders to do it we are best waiting until next season to switch to it
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Fulwood Blade said:
If wallace was fit and firing i'd be tempted on 4 in midfield - without wallace, I agree with your comments - it has to be a 5, with someone allowed a bit of freedom.

UTB
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Respected opinions but if that's the case why did Clough start talking about 4-4-2 back in late November? He thought he was getting O'Grady but what about the rest of the jigsaw?


Nowthen, 4-4-2 is not that adventurous or complicated. Players in the midfield of 4-4-2 do not have to be Superheroes. 3-5-2 is adventurous. 4-3-3 is adventurous though it can be defensive as well.

4-4-2 is totally adaptable to the opposition. The front two are not out of the game, far from it, they demand respect and caution from the opposition. Not only that, on occasions the ball stays in their half!!
 

I'd love to give reed and wallace a go in the centre together, I also agree that if we play an extra midfielder I'd consider a scoogs or Baxter behind a front two rather than someone to protect the back four.
Would we get overrun in midfield? Maybe, and would we have the tenacity in there to win the ball back? Might not, but it would be worth a try for 45min or so
 
From the pig end said:
I'd love to give reed and wallace a go in the centre together, I also agree that if we play an extra midfielder I'd consider a scoogs or Baxter behind a front two rather than someone to protect the back four.
Would we get overrun in midfield? Maybe, and would we have the tenacity in there to win the ball back? Might not, but it would be worth a try for 45min or so
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Agree, but 45 minutes or so proves nothing.

When Clough has played 4-4-2 he has changed back to 4-5-1 before half time - no commitment to it.

Strange because my Derby pal is amazed he's playing 4-5-1 and not 4-4-2. If anything 4-5-1 is more appropriate in the Championship.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Agree, but 45 minutes or so proves nothing.

When Clough has played 4-4-2 he has changed back to 4-5-1 before half time - no commitment to it.

Strange because my Derby pal is amazed he's playing 4-5-1 and not 4-4-2. If anything 4-5-1 is more appropriate in the Championship.
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Fair point,
if I was braver I'd want to see it tried for 2-3 games but I'm talking this season- and the time for experimenting was 4-5 months ago.
You're right,45min would show us nothing but seeing us overrun in midfield, possibly at home, for a full half would really agitate the fans.
We'd also rely heavily on our ability to break. Scoogs, Flynn, Murphy and Done would obviously be well suited to that, but would Davies? Genuine question, I've seen very little of him
 
From the pig end said:
Fair point,
if I was braver I'd want to see it tried for 2-3 games but I'm talking this season- and the time for experimenting was 4-5 months ago.
You're right,45min would show us nothing but seeing us overrun in midfield, possibly at home, for a full half would really agitate the fans.
We'd also rely heavily on our ability to break. Scoogs, Flynn, Murphy and Done would obviously be well suited to that, but would Davies? Genuine question, I've seen very little of him
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Davies looks an honest 6'1" old style centre forward. He will win his fair share of long high balls, he'll keep two central defenders occupied and worried all game. He has some touch, a quiet but physical presence. He will not go bounding off into the channels like Deane and Agana and therefore he needs someone like Done to do that sort of work. Then again, balls into the channels are not part of our make-up under Clough.

Davies and Done will get us promoted- IF Clough changes his ways to 4-4-2 AND they stay fit. If either gets injured Clough will revert to 4-5-1 and it becomes a tit for tat lottery against any side never mind those in the top 6.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Davies looks an honest 6'1" old style centre forward. He will win his fair share of long high balls, he'll keep two central defenders occupied and worried all game. He has some touch, a quiet but physical presence. He will not go bounding off into the channels like Deane and Agana and therefore he needs someone like Done to do that sort of work. Then again, balls into the channels are not part of our make-up under Clough.

Davies and Done will get us promoted- IF Clough changes his ways to 4-4-2 AND they stay fit. If either gets injured Clough will revert to 4-5-1 and it becomes a tit for tat lottery against any side never mind those in the top 6.
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Who's the central pairing in this playoff storming side?
 
From the pig end said:
Who's the central pairing in this playoff storming side?
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Great question, I'd love to say Collins and Butler, but it has to be Basham and Kennedy, nothing wrong with them if we play positive football. If we hang around waiting for our own mistakes then surely those mistakes will come.

I think we'll win any penalty shootout though!!
 
Woodwardfan said:
Great question, I'd love to say Collins and Butler, but it has to be Basham and Kennedy, nothing wrong with them if we play positive football. If we hang around waiting for our own mistakes then surely those mistakes will come.

I think we'll win any penalty shootout though!!
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I meant the central pairing in midfield, but the center-backs are just as tough to nail down
 
From the pig end said:
I meant the central pairing in midfield, but the center-backs are just as tough to nail down
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Reed and Doyle. Give Reed his head. Baxter and Scougall are not box to box players with enough energy.

BTW I really do think we need to inspire Reed now. He has been away with the England squad and he will realise more than ever just how good he is. That's not to say I don't think Clough has not done very well with Reed's development, he has, but we need Reed more than he needs us at this stage of the season.

Holt? No thanks.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Reed and Doyle. Give Reed his head. Baxter and Scougall are not box to box players with enough energy.

BTW I really do think we need to inspire Reed now. He has been away with the England squad and he will realise more than ever just how good he is. That's not to say I don't think Clough has not done very well with Reed's development, he has, but we need Reed more than he needs us at this stage of the season.

Holt? No thanks.
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Until Wallace is back I have to agree with you.
The problem is I think while cloughie rates young reedy I think he's starting to slip down his pecking order.
 
From the pig end said:
Until Wallace is back I have to agree with you.
The problem is I think while cloughie rates young reedy I think he's starting to slip down his pecking order.
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Maybe that is true. Personally I think managers over-complicate this coaching business. Clough's dad chose good characters who were good players too. He kept it eminently simple and let the good players play good football.

Teams these days are over-coached IMO.

4-5-1 has them all bumping into each other in a congested midfield. Nobody can see further than 10 yards to see what's on for a longer ball! And it's all so slow as a result.
 
Silent Blade said:
Doyle isnt a box to box player and playing 17 year old Reed in pressure cooker matches could destroy him
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I think Reed is as good a player as you and I have ever seen come through our ranks, bar none. I see a player who has played on an even keel with total composure ever since his debut. This lad is a future International if there ever was one.

Prospective International players are not destroyed in League 1, they waltz through it.

Reed was one of the best players on the park against Premier League opposition and Clough played him in most, if not all of those big cup games. All credit to Clough for showing faith in the lad. The lad can repay him handsomely in the coming weeks. In actual fact he has played well over 20 games this season.
 
in terms of the OP I think Davies has been an awful signing and playing him instead of done has contributed to our poor run. I don't understand playing a none scoring forward as your only out and out attacker. Crazy.
 
Woodwardfan said:
I think Reed is as good a player as you and I have ever seen come through our ranks, bar none. I see a player who has played on an even keel with total composure ever since his debut. This lad is a future International if there ever was one.

Prospective International players are not destroyed in League 1, they waltz through it.

Reed was one of the best players on the park against Premier League opposition and Clough played him in most, if not all of those big cup games. All credit to Clough for showing faith in the lad. The lad can repay him handsomely in the coming weeks. In actual fact he has played well over 20 games this season.
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I thought young Louis had just begun to go off the boil a bit. Already played a lot of games this season (some of them high profile as well) and just
thought he could benefit from a break. However he could be refreshed enough to make a difference after his experience with the England U 18's
.
I am still to be convinced by Holt as he looks to tire quite early in games. League 1 must be more demanding than the Scottish leagues. However
he does get into some good positions and could be worth persevering with.
 

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