So what happens to Baxter

[Reedy_22]

now we've signed Chris O'Grady?

Will Cloughy change formation slightly to a 4-2-3-1 and play him behind the lone forward allowing him time to hold up play higher up the pitch in an area where defenders won't be so aggressive in closing him down (mainly due to the presence of O'Grady or whomever will be the forward) affording him time to dictate from there and float around between the lines of the defence and midfield giving him slightly more time than he would have playing as the 'false nine' to pick a pass for our other attack minded players or create chances for himself?

Or...

As he's done this year at Preston(?) and that's stick with our current formation 4-1-2-2-1/4-5-1 but play Baxter behind the midfield duo in a sort of defensive midfield position in the hope he can collect the ball from deep and use his vision and passing ability to dictate play and create chances from there.

 

[Bladesman]

Play him behind COG.

Or just do something random and play him at right back.

 

[Bladesway]

Probably give him a deck chair, a king ted and a pukka pie and let him do what he wants.

 

[JohnDenver]

Send him to sitwell 's house for a good talking to.

 

[Dkc]

He could be dropped

 

[SwissBlade]

Jose's the best centre half at the club. He's been wasted in centre mid/ up front

 

[Canterbury Blade]

Dropped off COG to run at em and play people in. To be replaced by Higdon on the hour. Or vice versa. The get em bashed up then run at em or get em knackered then bash em up approach with COG or McNulty picking up the pieces and threading in between. All of them being complimented by Flynn and Scougall pushing through.

I'm getting quite positive now!

 

[Woodwardfan]

Presumably with 4-5-1, Wallace, Scougall and Baxter will fight for 2 places in midfield, but not if Clough chooses to play Basham and Doyle together.

I think Clough is planning for the future and when everybody is available will play Basham instead of Doyle. Time will tell if that will work and whether Basham can do all the dirty bits and the positional play that Doyle's experience offers. Then it's all about partnerships and I'm not confident Scougall or Baxter could perform in deeper midfield in partnership with Basham, but Wallace could. Indeed Reid can.

Much depends on whose available but with all fit I think it's Baxter or Scougall for that "No. 10 role", I'm not sure we can play them both together week in week out. There's that scenario and for deeper in partnership with Basham, maybe Reid, Doyle and Wallace fight for that honour.

It's a great problem to have and we suddenly have a very strong bench regardless of who starts.

I'd love us to play 3-5-2. and probably will most of the game against lesser teams.

 

[cahill]

Anywhere that allows him to utilise his considerable passing skills and ability to hold the ball. I love watching the podgy little git, almost worth the gate money alone.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Anywhere that allows him to utilise his considerable passing skills and ability to hold the ball. I love watching the podgy little git, almost worth the gate money alone.

Natural weight !!

 

[Darthblade]

now we've signed Chris O'Grady?

Will Cloughy change formation slightly to a 4-2-3-1 and play him behind the lone forward allowing him time to hold up play higher up the pitch in an area where defenders won't be so aggressive in closing him down (mainly due to the presence of O'Grady or whomever will be the forward) affording him time to dictate from there and float around between the lines of the defence and midfield giving him slightly more time than he would have playing as the 'false nine' to pick a pass for our other attack minded players or create chances for himself?

Or...

As he's done this year at Preston(?) and that's stick with our current formation 4-1-2-2-1/4-5-1 but play Baxter behind the midfield duo in a sort of defensive midfield position in the hope he can collect the ball from deep and use his vision and passing ability to dictate play and create chances from there.

I would imagine that, since he's a midfield player and not a striker, he will compete with Scougal and Reed for a CM place, if we play 4 - 4 - 2.
If we go with 4 - 5 - 1 he will compete with the same 2 for 2 places. If we carry on playing 4 - 6 - 0 I'm throwing the fu**ing teddy right out of the bloody cot !!
UTB & FTP

 

[cahill]

Natural weight !!

I reckon. He's a professional sportsman for gods sake, if he stood next to me he'd look ripped. He looked knackered last night, what you think is happening with him ?

 

[stringjunior]

After last nights performance i reckon we flog him in January while he still has some value. Thought he was really ineffective

 

[JohnDenver]

After last nights performance i reckon we flog him in January while he still has some value. Thought he was really ineffective

You're being kind. We need players who have a minimal level of performance which is acceptable to the team.

When Scougall, Flynn or Alcock are off form they still offer work rate and running. Baxter is a massive hinderence to the team when off-form. Zero movement, positional indiscipline, lack of tracking, lack of fitness.....

We either need him to hit form or to get out of the team.

 

[scholarblade]

if we play 5 in midfield it is essential that 2 of the central 3 make runs into the box when wingers have the ball, if not the centre forward is isolated against 3 or 4 defenders. baxter rarely gets in the box or even to the edge of it. scougall tries to but if hes the only one he will be picked up too.
if wallace, who i think is very good, is going to continue to have injuries we need to find a pacy attacking midfielder.

 

[judge]

Lots of rumours around these parts about the lads social activities

These rumours are mostly from earlier in his career to be fair

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I would imagine that, since he's a midfield player and not a striker, he will compete with Scougal and Reed for a CM place, if we play 4 - 4 - 2.
If we go with 4 - 5 - 1 he will compete with the same 2 for 2 places. If we carry on playing 4 - 6 - 0 I'm throwing the fu**ing teddy right out of the bloody cot !!
UTB & FTP

Got a feeling you can keep the teddy! - talked to a few (intelligent) owls fans and they all rate COG. Built like a brick shit house, opposition bounce off him, although they also say that he can't shoot properly - his timing is way off and tends to scuff shots. Reckon 4-5-1 is the order of the day with Higdon and Mcnulty as 20 minutes impact depending how the games are going.

As for 4-4-2, more chance of seeing pigs fly.

UTB

 

[sheffielder]

You're being kind. We need players who have a minimal level of performance which is acceptable to the team.

When Scougall, Flynn or Alcock are off form they still offer work rate and running. Baxter is a massive hinderence to the team when off-form. Zero movement, positional indiscipline, lack of tracking, lack of fitness.....

We either need him to hit form or to get out of the team.

I think you're missing the most important point in all of this. Why are so many players off form?

Scared to lose their place?
Constantly changing team?
Shit shape?
Wrong personnel?
Wrong formation?

 

[sitwell]

I think you're missing the most important point in all of this. Why are so many players off form?

Scared to lose their place?
Constantly changing team?
Shit shape?
Wrong personnel?
Wrong formation?

I think a mixture of all 5 depending on the player.

 

[Deadbat]

It is interesting that there are different opinions why we are struggling mightily to beat anyone this season and never looking like we will win comfortably.

It seems to range from

a) Clough's tactics and negative formation
b) Players in wrong position
c) Crap strikers
d) Baxter/Scougall holding us back as no one know their best position or whether we can fit them in to any formation
e) Poor set play defending
f) Players not in any kind of form
g) Constant team selection changes

To many more.....

The reality is it certainly is bigger than the formation, the personnel and the approach. I think if people think O'Grady playing and suddenly we will look this great side are going to be in for a shock.

The combination of above is the reason for such poor form but I would also say there is something in that fear factor that Sitwell alluded to.

Players need to stop worrying and become more attacking generally. On those runs last season we played a formation that was similar and may have looked negative but when we had the ball it was positive and we broke with speed and purpose. Clough does not seem like he is going change his formation any time soon so we need to get back to what we did so well on the run last year.

 

[Bergen Blade]

if we play 5 in midfield it is essential that 2 of the central 3 make runs into the box when wingers have the ball, if not the centre forward is isolated against 3 or 4 defenders. baxter rarely gets in the box or even to the edge of it. scougall tries to but if hes the only one he will be picked up too.
if wallace, who i think is very good, is going to continue to have injuries we need to find a pacy attacking midfielder.

Spot on. Yesterday we had Doyle, Baxter and Higdon in the central line neither of whom offer much off the ball movement. Scougall was also restricted by the formation which meant he had to work very hard defensively. It is very difficult for JCR to pick out our one or two players in the box when there are three or four big defenders ready to attack the ball. More pace and movement would help pulling their defenders out of position more often. At the moment we are too easy to defend against. I think O'Grady (if fit, motivated and confident) will help.

Given time, maybe Che Adams may become an option as a pacey and strong attacking midfielder.

 

[Bergen Blade]

It is interesting that there are different opinions why we are struggling mightily to beat anyone this season and never looking like we will win comfortably.

It seems to range from

a) Clough's tactics and negative formation
b) Players in wrong position
c) Crap strikers
d) Baxter/Scougall holding us back as no one know their best position or whether we can fit them in to any formation
e) Poor set play defending
f) Players not in any kind of form
g) Constant team selection changes

To many more.....

The reality is it certainly is bigger than the formation, the personnel and the approach. I think if people think O'Grady playing and suddenly we will look this great side are going to be in for a shock.

The combination of above is the reason for such poor form but I would also say there is something in that fear factor that Sitwell alluded to.

Players need to stop worrying and become more attacking generally. On those runs last season we played a formation that was similar and may have looked negative but when we had the ball it was positive and we broke with speed and purpose. Clough does not seem like he is going change his formation any time soon so we need to get back to what we did so well on the run last year.

a-g are about getting the balance right. It's not been easy and I think Clough will keep trying to tweak things until our rhythm is back.

 

[Harry's Game]

Fat club?

 

[Bergen Blade]

You're being kind. We need players who have a minimal level of performance which is acceptable to the team.

When Scougall, Flynn or Alcock are off form they still offer work rate and running. Baxter is a massive hinderence to the team when off-form. Zero movement, positional indiscipline, lack of tracking, lack of fitness.....

We either need him to hit form or to get out of the team.

A lot of people would like Baxter to work as a central midfielder, but there are a lot of examples of him being so poor defensively that it's probably unrealistic. Jump 5:15 into this video and watch him trying to prevent 37 year old journey man Gary Jones from getting forward:



For contrast, watch Scougall's defensive job, starting at 6:19.

If Baxter's going to play we have to compensate for his lack of mobility by having loads of fit and mobile runners around him. O'Grady for Higdon will help, maybe we'll have to replace Doyle as well.

 

[JohnDenver]

A lot of people would like Baxter to work as a central midfielder, but there are a lot of examples of him being so poor defensively that it's probably unrealistic. Jump 5:15 into this video and watch him trying to prevent 37 year old journey man Gary Jones from getting forward:

That was the exact incident I had in mind when I posted about him. That and the fact that when he moved to left midfield in the second half we hardly any play down that side in the entire half. The fact our goal came from there was bizarre given the pattern of play.

 

[boo radley]

A lot of people would like Baxter to work as a central midfielder, but there are a lot of examples of him being so poor defensively that it's probably unrealistic. Jump 5:15 into this video and watch him trying to prevent 37 year old journey man Gary Jones from getting forward:



For contrast, watch Scougall's defensive job, starting at 6:19.

If Baxter's going to play we have to compensate for his lack of mobility by having loads of fit and mobile runners around him. O'Grady for Higdon will help, maybe we'll have to replace Doyle as well.

I agree entirely about his defensive attributes but some seem to want to focus on this instead of the possibility about him contributing to the attacking options. He is far more effective than Scougall at the moment. Just because a player runs with pace does not mean he is an attribute. Scougalls movement at the moment is rubbish and he is too cautious when other have the ball. I think he could score loads if he took a chance and ran in to the box more simply like his goal at Wembley.
With Baxters lack of pace and the fact that Doyle will not go forward then it is Scougalls duty to take the positive action especially when Baxter may be deep and playing a ball to the wing men then the back up for those wing men comes from the fullbacks. Yes Harris will not overlap like freeman did but the back up is there and we should have more players getting in the box the main one from the midfield is Scougall.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Spot on. Yesterday we had Doyle, Baxter and Higdon in the central line neither of whom offer much off the ball movement. Scougall was also restricted by the formation which meant he had to work very hard defensively. It is very difficult for JCR to pick out our one or two players in the box when there are three or four big defenders ready to attack the ball. More pace and movement would help pulling their defenders out of position more often. At the moment we are too easy to defend against. I think O'Grady (if fit, motivated and confident) will help.

Given time, maybe Che Adams may become an option as a pacey and strong attacking midfielder.

It's difficult for JCR to pick out a player in the box because no fucker knows when to make a run in to the box, the ball might come in first time but that is the least likely, he needs to beat his man twice or three times or fall over before he crosses it.

That needs sorting out big time.

 

[JohnDenver]

It's difficult for JCR to pick out a player in the box because no fucker knows when to make a run in to the box, the ball might come in first time but that is the least likely, he needs to beat his man twice or three times or fall over before he crosses it.

That needs sorting out big time.

Indeed. It's actually quite entertaining to watch all those players in the centre of the pitch watching the events on the wing and wondering when they might have to do something.

On Friday night, from the other side of the pitch, a timely cross came in and Murphy showed good movement. Bingo.

 

[sitwell]

I agree entirely about his defensive attributes but some seem to want to focus on this instead of the possibility about him contributing to the attacking options. He is far more effective than Scougall at the moment. Just because a player runs with pace does not mean he is an attribute. Scougalls movement at the moment is rubbish and he is too cautious when other have the ball. I think he could score loads if he took a chance and ran in to the box more simply like his goal at Wembley.
With Baxters lack of pace and the fact that Doyle will not go forward then it is Scougalls duty to take the positive action especially when Baxter may be deep and playing a ball to the wing men then the back up for those wing men comes from the fullbacks. Yes Harris will not overlap like freeman did but the back up is there and we should have more players getting in the box the main one from the midfield is Scougall.

There was one incident when Baxter made an excellent pass down the right wing ,and then just stood still admiring it. If he had followed it up by running forward we would have had an extra body in the box and could have scored. Why he didn't is either laziness , lack of awareness or fitness ,all 3 are unacceptable. This combined with his shocking set pieces when he is hailed as our technically gifted player is so disappointing. His career is in decline and has been for a few years before he came to us. The problem is in his head in my opinion and is such a waste.

 

[boo radley]

There was one incident when Baxter made an excellent pass down the right wing ,and then just stood still admiring it. If he had followed it up by running forward we would have had an extra body in the box and could have scored. Why he didn't is either laziness , lack of awareness or fitness ,all 3 are unacceptable. This combined with his shocking set pieces when he is hailed as our technically gifted player is so disappointing. His career is in decline and has been for a few years before he came to us. The problem is in his head in my opinion and is such a waste.

Never noticed that but it may be catching as McNulty who had just come on was clearly favourite to get to a ball within 8 yards of himself but set of late and only gave a token effort yet people are clamouring for him to be included. I bet Clough is so frustrated Davies is not fit. whilst not perfect if it is work rate you are guaranteed it with him. I find the workrate of forwards so frustrating given the example of Suarez, Tevez, Aguaro, Yes premiership but forwards from this or any division need to learn to close down better.
Baxter certainly is not the answer to our problems or the cause either. There seems to be a distinct lack of confidence in players getting in to the box and the fear that they will not be covered should things break down. With the situations we are creating we should be scoring loads more and should be taking the chance to at least give us the opportunity to whilst accepting that the occasional gap will be left which the opposition may score from or cock up like the one near the end for Notts C the other night.