Scrap the Play Offs...please

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Rusty

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Ok, they stretch the season out, cause excitement, make money etc..but we are utterly wank at them, and with both Barnsley teams in finals this year, I fear even though we weren't in them this year they're going to be just as wank.
Scrap em I say.
 

It won't happen due to the money it brings in and the fact that it keeps the season going for a number of clubs.
 
They could have a play off between the fourth from bottom team and the third team in the league below. Even though this didn't benefit United in 1988 when we were relegated after losing to Bristol City in the playoffs.
 
Here to stay.
If we'd won all four finals then we'd love em.

They do make the season an open invitation for many more clubs and everyone knows the score before a season kicks off - so can't bleat about it
 
I think they're good, gives players the chance to play at Wembley who would otherwise not get anywhere near whilst also giving teams in eighth and ninth something to play for in the run in and ensures most games remain competitive throughout the season.

Unlike the farce at Wigan that saw the Dingles unjustly reach the top six :(
 
BeatleBlade said:
I can understand them keeping them as they do raise revenue but they need to make them more biased in favour of the top team.
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They could make the Playoff Semi Final one leg with it played at the team who finished highest.
 
5th vs. 6th
4th vs. Winner
3rd vs. Winner @ Wembley

Higher positions get advantage - home and/or less games than teams below them.

Make it that lower team HAS to beat the higher team. No extra time or penalties, lower side has to go and beat the higher side away from home or at Wembley.
 
Tyler Durden said:
Agreed. The 3rd placed team has earned it over the season, whoever they are. For anyone below that to get promoted ahead of them is purely unjust.
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I don't think you get it. I can understand why.

The league only promotes two teams (three in League Two). It then offers the chance of promotion to one of the four teams finishing in the next four places in a new competition called... the play offs. Where you finish is irrelevant, you only get to enter if you are one of those four.

Once you can get your head around that it becomes clearer. Continually linking it to finishing 3rd, 4th etc is just bollocks. It is a separate competition like entry places for the Europa League. It took me some time, because if you are old enough you remember the old system and think like that. You shouldn't. Think top two = promotion, 3,4,5 and 6 = entry to a knock out cup competition where winners get promoted. Simples. :) Finishing 3rd, 4th , 5th, 6th = not good enough to finish in the auto promotion places.
 
1973Blade said:
They could have a play off between the fourth from bottom team and the third team in the league below. Even though this didn't benefit United in 1988 when we were relegated after losing to Bristol City in the playoffs.
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aka the Scottish system (although it works on a progressive knockout basis e.g. 4 v 3, winner plays 2, winner plays 2nd bottom from league above.)
 
BladeFisher said:
I don't think you get it. I can understand why.

The league only promotes two teams (three in League Two). It then offers the chance of promotion to one of the four teams finishing in the next four places in a new competition called... the play offs. Where you finish is irrelevant, you only get to enter if you are one of those four.

Once you can get your head around that it becomes clearer. Continually linking it to finishing 3rd, 4th etc is just bollocks. It is a separate competition like entry places for the Europa League. It took me some time, because if you are old enough you remember the old system and think like that. You shouldn't. Think top two = promotion, 3,4,5 and 6 = entry to a knock out cup competition where winners get promoted. Simples. :) Finishing 3rd, 4th , 5th, 6th = not good enough to finish in the auto promotion places.
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All you've done is explain the system. There's still no justification for it.

The club who finishes in 6th place (or 7th in the fourth division) hasn't earned the right to go up more than anyone who finished higher. Putting a contrived knock out system in place doesn't change that one iota.

46 games is enough for a team to prove its worth.
Brighton finished 15 points in front of the Pigs, yet virtually lost any chance of promotion when 4 players got injured in one play-off match.
To subject any club (even if was Wednesday) to a lottery after they've already achieved the highest position over the course of a season is inherently ridiculous.
 

Coming soon...

The end of season relegation play offs.
The end to the 0-0 draw.
Still 0-0 after 120, it's no points for either club.

The scrapping of the "Offside" rule.
Bonus points for the club who score more than three goals in a match.
A World Cup in the Middle East.

Probably around the same time as the Five x Twenty Set Up.
 
I've said it before, and I say it again, this is just about the only thing we can learn from Rugby (well, really from Aussie Rules, where rugby nicked the system from). The playoffs need to be tweaked to make each place worth something. So, for example:

Game 1 - 3rd at home to 4th. Winner goes to game 4
Game 2 - 5th at home to 6th. Winner goes to game 3, loser knocked out
Game 3- loser of game 1 at home to winner of game 2. Winner to game 4, loser knocked out.
Game 4 - winner of game one v winner of game 3. Winner promoted, loser knocked out.

This seems much fairer to me. The Scottish system used in the top 2 divisions is also fairer.

Something else to remember: whilst the bottom 2 divisions had 4 up 4 down between 1959 and 1986 - so the 4th placed side has lost something it enjoyed for a while - the other divisions were only 3 up 3 down for 13 years (1974 to 1986). The playoffs have been in place for 30 seasons now. They are popular. They keep interest going and add to attendances. They are beneficial - and they are entertaining. I think they need tweaking, but I would not scrap them (even though hell will freeze over before we win the playoffs).
 
1889 said:
I think they're good, gives players the chance to play at Wembley who would otherwise not get anywhere near whilst also giving teams in eighth and ninth something to play for in the run in and ensures most games remain competitive throughout the season.
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True. It gives supporters of smaller teams their one and only chance to see Wembley (JPT Final apart). It allows them to get all giddy and waste fortunes on tat such as 'Jester hats'. It allows their 'fans' to pack out pubs with gobby morons who never actually go to matches. What time do Wendy kick off BTW? :D

1889 said:
Unlike the farce at Wigan that saw the Dingles unjustly reach the top six :(
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Now you're talking. The scope for under-the-counter deals is vast. Money talks. Also, if a team finishes 6th - 15 fucking points behind third - and probably gets into the PL it's just plain wrong.
 
3rd place automatically to Wembley,4th and 5th playoff for other place,this gets rid of 6th place,who are sometimes 10-15 points behind 3rd spot.....this keeps the excitement of the playoffs,but makes it much fairer imo
 
I don't suppose peoples objections to the current form of the playoffs has anything to do with our abject failure to actually win them :rolleyes:
 
BladeFisher said:
aka the Scottish system (although it works on a progressive knockout basis e.g. 4 v 3, winner plays 2, winner plays 2nd bottom from league above.)
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Ostensibly good, but is massively weighted in favour of the incumbent SPFL team given they spend the previous three weeks conserving energy and getting key players fit whilst their opponents potentially have to play Wed/Sat/Tue/Fri before playing first leg Tue and are thusly knackered and decimated through injury/cards. Indeed you'd have to be a monumental fuck up to lose - particularly after being 2-0 up from the first (away) leg - and I think only one club thus far has managed so to do.......:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:.

Said club should be sent donations from everybody else for ending the managerial career of Terry Butcher.
 
We hold the record - 8 play-offs all unsuccessful, how much heart-ache is that?

And of course the other lot- 1 play-off one success and maybe 2 out of 2 coming up. How much more heart-ache is that?

Why don't the good guys win? the ones who pay all their debts, have a supporter as owner and the most loyal supporters whatever is thrown at them not just when they're winning?
 
1889 said:
I think they're good, gives players the chance to play at Wembley who would otherwise not get anywhere near whilst also giving teams in eighth and ninth something to play for in the run in and ensures most games remain competitive throughout the season.

Unlike the farce at Wigan that saw the Dingles unjustly reach the top six :(
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Oh dear
 
Tyler Durden said:
Agreed. The 3rd placed team has earned it over the season, whoever they are. For anyone below that to get promoted ahead of them is purely unjust.
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Third team blues in the playoffs is the thing that pisses me off the most, look at Brighton 15 points clear, bit of bad luck and get hammered by those cnuts..

It could have been so different for us if the players had turned up in playoffs, in an alternate universe were the most successfull playoff team of all time...

I take comfort from that alternative universe theory...
 
I love them. Makes the season more interesting for longer, gives more teams a shot at promotion.

It is just we are wank at them.
 
Rusty said:
Ok, they stretch the season out, cause excitement, make money etc..but we are utterly wank at them, and with both Barnsley teams in finals this year, I fear even though we weren't in them this year they're going to be just as wank.
Scrap em I say.
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Because we're poor at them we should scrap them?

How about being a bit more positive, keep them and United improve to win them!
 
Tyler Durden said:
All you've done is explain the system. There's still no justification for it.

The club who finishes in 6th place (or 7th in the fourth division) hasn't earned the right to go up more than anyone who finished higher. Putting a contrived knock out system in place doesn't change that one iota.

46 games is enough for a team to prove its worth.
Brighton finished 15 points in front of the Pigs, yet virtually lost any chance of promotion when 4 players got injured in one play-off match.
To subject any club (even if was Wednesday) to a lottery after they've already achieved the highest position over the course of a season is inherently ridiculous.
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Well yes I have. The explanation is that you have to divorce the League position in respect of 3rd to 6th after 46 games with getting another chance at getting promoted. Take Brighton, they had their chance on the last game of the season and didn't take it. They thus went into a new knock out competition.

SUFC are just crap at them and that is more the point. With 8 attempts statistically you'd think we'd have won two of them.

Mind you could have a real lottery. The play-offs to consist of the teams outside the top two that win the most games at home, win the most games away, scored the most goals a home and scored the most goals away.
 

Revolution said:
I've said it before, and I say it again, this is just about the only thing we can learn from Rugby (well, really from Aussie Rules, where rugby nicked the system from). The playoffs need to be tweaked to make each place worth something. So, for example:

Game 1 - 3rd at home to 4th. Winner goes to game 4
Game 2 - 5th at home to 6th. Winner goes to game 3, loser knocked out
Game 3- loser of game 1 at home to winner of game 2. Winner to game 4, loser knocked out.
Game 4 - winner of game one v winner of game 3. Winner promoted, loser knocked out.

This seems much fairer to me. The Scottish system used in the top 2 divisions is also fairer.

Something else to remember: whilst the bottom 2 divisions had 4 up 4 down between 1959 and 1986 - so the 4th placed side has lost something it enjoyed for a while - the other divisions were only 3 up 3 down for 13 years (1974 to 1986). The playoffs have been in place for 30 seasons now. They are popular. They keep interest going and add to attendances. They are beneficial - and they are entertaining. I think they need tweaking, but I would not scrap them (even though hell will freeze over before we win the playoffs).
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I always thought Wombwell Blade's comment was the way I would go but I do really like this one.

It can't be right that a team finishing 15 points clear, as Brighton did over Wednesday, can just be eliminated on the backdrop of a level playing field when you've murdered them over the previous 46 matches - 0.3 points per game better off!

I like this one.
 
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