Sam Vokes

[Sothall_Blade]

In March 2011, United took the fateful decision not to extend the loan of Sam Vokes due to "financial considerations".

Five years later we are still in League One and have missed out on countless millions of Championship revenue.

Could Vokes have made the difference and kept us up? I thought so at the time and I still do!

I'm amazed how some people can put a positive spin on anything the club do.
Our manager is on record that he wants to keep Vokes and Wolves have agreed to extend the loan.
Some faceless "source" behind the scenes decides to overrule the manager and tells him to struggle on instead with what he's already got.
Extending the loan would cost us a few thousand. Relegation could and probably will cost us millions.
Vokes has had an impact and has been the first choice striker for the last three matches, two of which we've won.
Henderson is nowhere near match-fit and won't be before the end of the season.
He'd be better used coming on as an impact sub, not as the main striker our chance of survival depends upon.
At any rate, that should always be the manager's decision not an accountant adding the striker's total wages up on his spreadsheet.
What's the point of employing a manager to pick the team and then trying to do the job for him?

http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/foot...exit_as_blades_have_change_of_heart_1_3208344

 

[Ricky]

I can barely even remember this but what a fucking ridiculous decision that was. Vokes was our main hope. He looked a good player in the brief time we had him and it's no surprise that he's gone on to do well since.

 

[Snowman]

I can barely even remember this but what a fucking ridiculous decision that was. Vokes was our main hope. He looked a good player in the brief time we had him and it's no surprise that he's gone on to do well since.

I actually remember it very well. He looked the part and fitted in. Just one of several stupid decisions that had me shaking my head at the time. Just wondering if this was about the time that they closed and blocked up the second lift to the exec suites on the basis they couldn't afford to have it mended.

 

[Sean Thornton]

In March 2011, United took the fateful decision not to extend the loan of Sam Vokes due to "financial considerations".

Five years later we are still in League One and have missed out on countless millions of Championship revenue.

Could Vokes have made the difference and kept us up? I thought so at the time and I still do!

The financisl considerations were based on the strikers we had at the time and their wages rather than Vokes salary - it was expected to be a season long loan anyway and then Donkey Darius got fit again. Think back to who we had. As usual we were paying big money to players not up to it.

He looked decent though in his five or six games.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I actually remember it very well. He looked the part and fitted in. Just one of several stupid decisions that had me shaking my head at the time. Just wondering if this was about the time that they closed and blocked up the second lift to the exec suites on the basis they couldn't afford to have it mended.

The club lost £13m that year!

 

[Darthblade]

Just one in the enormous list of crap decisions made by our Board ..........

No surprise there

UTB & FTP

 

[bladesmanluke]

Almost every decision our board has ever made has been the wrong one

 

[SwissBlade]

Vokes wasn't exactly an instant hit. He looked overweight and slow for the first few games, so was obviously using the time with us to build his match fitness. We'd just got him fit and in form when his loan finished and he looked quality.

I remember he went back to Wolves, but didn't he go elsewhere in the Championship after he left us?

 

[Snowman]

The club lost £13m that year!

Hmmm. That's why the cheeseboard suffered a decline as well then.

 

[Maidenhead]

The club lost £13m that year!

I'd give up if I were you Sean.

Not many on here willing to let facts get in the way of a good moan.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I like Vokes – he did well for us at a time all our strikers were very poor, and the decision not to fight to keep him and instead pin our hopes on the returning Henderson, who was recovering from a bad injury, was idiosy. Another poor decision of an appalling season.

As a Wales fan, I've managed to keep an eye on him – he is the best of the current squad to hold up play and link with those around him. Played that role perfectly vs Russia, didn't work yesterday (and he missed a glorious header just before being subbed)

 

[raul]

I'd give up if I were you Sean.

Not many on here willing to let facts get in the way of a good moan.

So we didnt get relegated then?

 

[blade too long]

let me get this argument right
a loan player ,
who only played 6 times going back to his club , consigned us to 6 seasons in league one

 

[Sothall_Blade]

The financisl considerations were based on the strikers we had at the time and their wages rather than Vokes salary - it was expected to be a season long loan anyway and then Donkey Darius got fit again. Think back to who we had. As usual we were paying big money to players not up to it.

He looked decent though in his five or six games.

Even accountants must know the expression "spend a penny to save a pound". The other strikers we had at the time hadn't been performing well enough to keep us out of the relegation zone.
Henderson was never going to be anywhere near fit enough to be effective.
Vokes was a class above him and Bogdanovich as has Ben shown by their respective careers since.
Adams wanted to keep him and had the deal sorted before the faceless bean-counters intervened and undermined him.
It was obvious to most that that decision cost us survival.
Not said with hindsight as it was predicted at the time and we're all still suffering

 

[Sean Thornton]

Even accountants must know the expression "spend a penny to save a pound". The other strikers we had at the time hadn't been performing well enough to keep us out of the relegation zone.
Henderson was never going to be anywhere near fit enough to be effective.
Vokes was a class above him and Bogdanovich as has Ben shown by their respective careers since.
Adams wanted to keep him and had the deal sorted before the faceless bean-counters intervened and undermined him.
It was obvious to most that that decision cost us survival.
Not said with hindsight as it was predicted at the time and we're all still suffering

I pointed out what the financial considerations were rather than commenting particularly on the stupidity of the decision. Wasn't so much his wages as what we were paying out to the others. May have been the final nail in the coffin but there were plenty of mistakes which put us in the position before that.
Adams said at the time he had only been signed as cover. Well he said it after he'd gone back!

 

[Maidenhead]

So we didnt get relegated then?

Does one player really make that much difference?

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Does one player really make that much difference?

Currie comes to mind . I think we were all desperate , we all bought in to the Brayford propaganda. Is it a situation were one player makes a difference is classed as a luxury player.

Won't stop you getting relegated but can make the difference between success and failure if the balance is right.

 

[Revolution]

In March 2011, United took the fateful decision not to extend the loan of Sam Vokes due to "financial considerations".

Five years later we are still in League One and have missed out on countless millions of Championship revenue.

Could Vokes have made the difference and kept us up? I thought so at the time and I still do!

Well, let's see. We had 8 games left when Vokes left us.

We lost the next 4.

3-0 at QPR - we were hammered in that game
1-2 vs Boro - should have won that game and would have if Darius Henderson wasn't a useless twat
0-2 vs Cardiff - well beaten
1-3 vs Preston - well beaten

I think having Vokes might have affected the result against Boro. The other games? No way.

Then we won 2 on the bounce (Reading and Doncaster) so could have done no better with Vokes in the team.

Then there was the draw with Barnsley that got us relegated. Might Vokes have helped us that day? Maybe.

Then we got slaughtered by Swansea. He wouldn't have helped that day.

So at best IMHO we'd have had 5 extra points, if you assume he'd have turned a one goal defeat and a draw into two wins.

And we went down by...6 points. So to answer the question, no, I don't think he'd have made the difference.

What might have made the difference?

- not selling off all our decent defenders (2 Kyles, Kilgallon, Kenny) and replacing them with inferior players
- less serious injuries - Morgan's loss was a particular blow
- if certain players hadn't collapsed form wise (Bogdanovic, Cresswell)
- Ched Evans actually being any good
- Keeping Bartley and Reid at Christmas (and perhaps Jamie Ward, though I understand he was behaving like a whiny little shit at the time)
- Not signing Collins and Doyle, neither of whom were good enough for that league
- not appointing Mickey Adams
- Not blowing the midfield wage budget on the baffling signing of Leon "Emperor's New Clothes" Britton and re-signing Monty, ensuring a goals and assists black hole
- Not having Kevin McCabe as chairman
- not firing the manager 2 games into the season having play

 

[Deaneandagana]

Well, let's see. We had 8 games left when Vokes left us.

We lost the next 4.

3-0 at QPR - we were hammered in that game
1-2 vs Boro - should have won that game and would have if Darius Henderson wasn't a useless twat
0-2 vs Cardiff - well beaten
1-3 vs Preston - well beaten

I think having Vokes might have affected the result against Boro. The other games? No way.

Then we won 2 on the bounce (Reading and Doncaster) so could have done no better with Vokes in the team.

Then there was the draw with Barnsley that got us relegated. Might Vokes have helped us that day? Maybe.

Then we got slaughtered by Swansea. He wouldn't have helped that day.

So at best IMHO we'd have had 5 extra points, if you assume he'd have turned a one goal defeat and a draw into two wins.

And we went down by...6 points. So to answer the question, no, I don't think he'd have made the difference.

What might have made the difference?

- not selling off all our decent defenders (2 Kyles, Kilgallon, Kenny) and replacing them with inferior players
- less serious injuries - Morgan's loss was a particular blow
- if certain players hadn't collapsed form wise (Bogdanovic, Cresswell)
- Ched Evans actually being any good
- Keeping Bartley and Reid at Christmas (and perhaps Jamie Ward, though I understand he was behaving like a whiny little shit at the time)
- Not signing Collins and Doyle, neither of whom were good enough for that league
- not appointing Mickey Adams
- Not blowing the midfield wage budget on the baffling signing of Leon "Emperor's New Clothes" Britton and re-signing Monty, ensuring a goals and assists black hole
- Not having Kevin McCabe as chairman
- not firing the manager 2 games into the season having play

Other than that it was one of our more successful seasons with s host of positives both on & off the field.

UTB

 

[Revolution]

Even accountants must know the expression "spend a penny to save a pound". The other strikers we had at the time hadn't been performing well enough to keep us out of the relegation zone.
Henderson was never going to be anywhere near fit enough to be effective.
Vokes was a class above him and Bogdanovich as has Ben shown by their respective careers since.
Adams wanted to keep him and had the deal sorted before the faceless bean-counters intervened and undermined him.
It was obvious to most that that decision cost us survival.
Not said with hindsight as it was predicted at the time and we're all still suffering

We were effectively down after we lost to Palace in one of several six pointers we lost in early 2011.

That team was garbage, full of bad players and sprinkled with a few underperforming good players. As soon as Adams, Doyle and Collins came and Bartley and Reid left, there was no hope.

And if Adams wanted to keep Vokes I suspect they may have looked at his other signings and thought "we're not paying for any more bad players".

 

[Deaneandagana]

We were effectively down after we lost to Palace in one of several six pointers we lost in early 2011.

That team was garbage, full of bad players and sprinkled with a few underperforming good players. As soon as Adams, Doyle and Collins came and Bartley and Reid left, there was no hope.

And if Adams wanted to keep Vokes I suspect they may have looked at his other signings and thought "we're not paying for any more bad players".

Couldn't you also argue that sacking the manager after 2 games was the main driver behind relegation, another truly bizarre Boardroom decision - brought to you on behalf of Kev's game changing investments Ltd

 

[Revolution]

Couldn't you also argue that sacking the manager after 2 games was the main driver behind relegation, another truly bizarre Boardroom decision - brought to you on behalf of Kev's game changing investments Ltd

Yes, that was in my original post but the full thought got cut off.

United did well and drew at Cardiff and then got hammered by QPR. McCabe fired Blackwell.

And, as it turned out, Cardiff and QPR were the best 2 teams in the division.

It might have turned out the same, and some of the problems were Blackwell's fault, but that sacking did not help.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I thought the partnership of Evans and Vokes had a chance of saving us but I think Evans got injured around the same time as Vokes went back and that pretty much finished us off.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Does one player really make that much difference?

Sometimes it can. Ask Carlos Tevez, Brian Deane or Rob Hulse.
I wouldn't put Vokes in their league but he was certainly a large cut above an half fit (or even fully fit) Henderson.
He's helped Burnley get promotion from The Championship twice since while Henderson, Bogdanovich and Bent erm, haven't.
We'll never know for sure if it would have made a big enough difference and that's the frustration.

Well, let's see. We had 8 games left when Vokes left us.

We lost the next 4.

3-0 at QPR - we were hammered in that game
1-2 vs Boro - should have won that game and would have if Darius Henderson wasn't a useless twat
0-2 vs Cardiff - well beaten
1-3 vs Preston - well beaten

I think having Vokes might have affected the result against Boro. The other games? No way.

Then we won 2 on the bounce (Reading and Doncaster) so could have done no better with Vokes in the team.

Then there was the draw with Barnsley that got us relegated. Might Vokes have helped us that day? Maybe.

Then we got slaughtered by Swansea. He wouldn't have helped that day.

So at best IMHO we'd have had 5 extra points, if you assume he'd have turned a one goal defeat and a draw into two wins.

And we went down by...6 points. So to answer the question, no, I don't think he'd have made the difference.

What might have made the difference?

- not selling off all our decent defenders (2 Kyles, Kilgallon, Kenny) and replacing them with inferior players
- less serious injuries - Morgan's loss was a particular blow
- if certain players hadn't collapsed form wise (Bogdanovic, Cresswell)
- Ched Evans actually being any good
- Keeping Bartley and Reid at Christmas (and perhaps Jamie Ward, though I understand he was behaving like a whiny little shit at the time)
- Not signing Collins and Doyle, neither of whom were good enough for that league
- not appointing Mickey Adams
- Not blowing the midfield wage budget on the baffling signing of Leon "Emperor's New Clothes" Britton and re-signing Monty, ensuring a goals and assists black hole
- Not having Kevin McCabe as chairman
- not firing the manager 2 games into the season having play

I agree with most of your points and the decision to go with Henderson rather than Vokes was only the final straw.
For certain matches you say it wouldn't have mattered, we could have maybe gone in front with a decent striker and that could have made all the difference to confidence, form and the results.
We also started playing a weakened, experimental team once it seemed a lost cause and that wouldn't have happened if we'd bagged extra points previously.

 

[pommpey]

Sometimes it can. Ask Carlos Tevez, Brian Deane or Rob Hulse.
I wouldn't put Vokes in their league but he was certainly a large cut above an half fit (or even fully fit) Henderson.
He's helped Burnley get promotion from The Championship twice since while Henderson, Bogdanovich and Bent erm, haven't.
We'll never know for sure if it would have made a big enough difference and that's the frustration.



I agree with most of your points and the decision to go with Henderson rather than Vokes was only the final straw.
For certain matches you say it wouldn't have mattered, we could have maybe gone in front with a decent striker and that could have made all the difference to confidence, form and the results.
We also started playing a weakened, experimental team once it seemed a lost cause and that wouldn't have happened if we'd bagged extra points previously.

Henderson = money already spent

Vokes = means spending money

Which clever businessman made the decision with that one then?

pommpey

 

[Deaneandagana]

Yes, that was in my original post but the full thought got cut off.

United did well and drew at Cardiff and then got hammered by QPR. McCabe fired Blackwell.

And, as it turned out, Cardiff and QPR were the best 2 teams in the division.

It might have turned out the same, and some of the problems were Blackwell's fault, but that sacking did not help.

Out of interest, do you recall the starting XI from the QPR game (Blackwell's final match)?

 

[blade too long]

what cost us going down that season was Gary Speed fucking off at the vital time
People hold him up as a hero
I for one felt really let down by him
led to too much turmoil

 

[diplomat]

Yes, that was in my original post but the full thought got cut off.

United did well and drew at Cardiff and then got hammered by QPR. McCabe fired Blackwell.

And, as it turned out, Cardiff and QPR were the best 2 teams in the division.

It might have turned out the same, and some of the problems were Blackwell's fault, but that sacking did not help.

In between those games I think we lost to Hartlepool too. I was there. I've tried to erase the whole experience from my memory. We were awful.

Not saying that game should have tipped the balance toward sacking Blackwell either, but we were awful.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you keep all the crap that went on that season exactly the same and just put Kenny in net as the only difference, we wouldn't have gone down. We really were the masters of our own downfall on numerous occasions that year. It's quite sad on reflection.

 

[raul]

what cost us going down that season was Gary Speed fucking off at the vital time
People hold him up as a hero
I for one felt really let down by him
led to too much turmoil

Yep, I think most teams when they're 15th in December know relegation is inevitable.

 

[blade too long]

or one felt really let down by his timing

Yep, I think most teams when they're 15th in December know relegation is inevitable.

wasnt that we were 15th it was that we were rudderless and starting from scratch yet again

bit like England last night , no plan A never mind plan b