Players we're linked to/have bought

[Balham Blade]

Since the end of last season we've been linked with a number of players, some more insistently than others. It's fairly irrefutably that we've not had a lot of success recently buying players from the Championship or over the age of 27. Why, then, are we continuing to make the same mistakes?

Linked with:
Sam Morsy: Wigan (Championship); 26
Craig Morgan: Wigan (Championship); 31
Byron Webster: Millwall (League One); 29
Ryan Colclough: Wigan (Championship); 23

Bought:
Leon Clarke: Bury (L1); 31 (£100k)
Chris Hussey: Bury (L1); 27 (£10k?)
Jack O'Connell: Brentford (Champ); 22 (£250k)
James Wilson: Oldham (L1); 27 (free)
John Fleck: Coventry (L1); 25 (free)
Mark Duffy: Birmingham (Champ); 30 (free)
Simon Moore: Brentford (Champ); 26 (£250k)

Not one player on either list is an up-and-coming young player from the lower leagues - the type of player which gives best value in our position. We've appointed a highly-rated scout (again!) yet seem to be shopping for players who aren't going to give value for munneh. The only players with a potential resale value are O'Connell and Moore: out of 8 that's frankly not good enough.

I'm no expert but then I don't have the latest version of Football Manager. Or access to Prozone. Either of those would allow us to narrow down a list of targets who would provide the skills we desperately need (heading, interceptions, tackling, pace, passing).

The state of the club saddens me but what pisses me off is the self inflicted nature of the wounds.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

The simple answer is we can't afford young up and coming players

We are having to compromise, so we've got the choice of young players with a bit to prove I.e oconnell or Moore (for gk) or players that are past their best like Clarke and Duffy and hoping we can get a few years good performance out of them.

Or ones that we hope we can turn round like hussey and Wilson and get them to step up.

I'd argue fleck is the only one we've faced real competition to get in. Who is decent and at the right age

 

[Grizzly blade]

New manager...nothing has changed.

He needs results off the bat. He hasn't the time or free space to scout and take risks on lower league players.
They need careful scouting to find them.

We increase the pressure for every season we stay down here. In hindsight, I would bet that KM wishes he had turned to Wilson and told him the job was his for 5 years, the budget will be "X" for those seasons until we go up.
I want you playing passing football like Swansea, and every season we will sell one player to fund the losses. Now get out there and find some bargains because you won't be paying more than 250k for a single player.....don't care where they come from but do it.

We needed a patient approach or a money no object approach. We are stuck in the middle getting nowhere.

 

[JohnDenver]

In hindsight, I would bet that KM wishes he had turned to Wilson and told him the job was his for 5 years, the budget will be "X" for those seasons until we go up.
I want you playing passing football like Swansea, and every season we will sell one player to fund the losses. Now get out there and find some bargains because you won't be paying more than 250k for a single player.....don't care where they come from but do it.

We needed a patient approach or a money no object approach. We are stuck in the middle getting nowhere.

Agreed but we don't need to give managers a long contract. If there's a strategy in place beyond the manager's office door, then the occupants can come and go relatively painlessly.

Swansea and West Brom have done it. Others too. But not us.

 

[BushBlade]

New manager...nothing has changed.

He needs results off the bat. He hasn't the time or free space to scout and take risks on lower league players.
They need careful scouting to find them.

We increase the pressure for every season we stay down here. In hindsight, I would bet that KM wishes he had turned to Wilson and told him the job was his for 5 years, the budget will be "X" for those seasons until we go up.
I want you playing passing football like Swansea, and every season we will sell one player to fund the losses. Now get out there and find some bargains because you won't be paying more than 250k for a single player.....don't care where they come from but do it.

We needed a patient approach or a money no object approach. We are stuck in the middle getting nowhere.

Or just not sacked Clough and told him to find more Ches and fewer Coutts.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Or just not sacked Clough and told him to find more Ches and fewer Coutts.

Totally agree...biggest mistake we made in my opinion.

I'm in the minority that thinks most of Cloughs signings weren't that bad, most did the job required and were part of HIS squad. They played for him, and although he made errors with some recruitments all managers do. I think we would have gone up if we had given him another season minimum....and we certainly wouldn't be in the poo we are currently.

But hey...most would disagree and that's my opinion for what it's worth.

Oh...and I think Coutts is a decent player who hasn't been utilised properly.

 

[SandyMcBlade]

It all started with the sacking of Warnock by quick draw Kevin McCabe !!!!!!!!!!!

But then again if we hadn't have sacked him how would we have found that out ?.....

 

[BushBlade]

Totally agree...biggest mistake we made in my opinion.

I'm in the minority that thinks most of Cloughs signings weren't that bad, most did the job required and were part of HIS squad. They played for him, and although he made errors with some recruitments all managers do. I think we would have gone up if we had given him another season minimum....and we certainly wouldn't be in the poo we are currently.

But hey...most would disagree and that's my opinion for what it's worth.

Oh...and I think Coutts is a decent player who hasn't been utilised properly.

My reference to Coutts was in respect of his wages rather than his ability, we shouldn't have spent what we couldn't afford on a naive gamble to get promotion.

I agree that Clough was building a side to play in a certain style and when Adkins came in and changed the way we played it made Clough's players look worse.

Clough was known for building sides slowly, on a tight budget, that's what he did at Burton and that's what he was doing at Derby. In many ways he was like Warnock, able to find bargains and develop a side that were fiercely loyal to him and played above their natural ability, as a team.
And like Warnock, he didn't know what to do with big money when he was given it.

If our intention was to buy our way out of the league, then we should have found a manager who'd done it before, not someone who'd built his reputation in doing the opposite. And if we were going for Clough, let him do what he does best and build slowly. Set out the budget and make sure that if we didn't go up it was still sustainable. No, or few, big name or big money signings, just sensible purchases of players that suited his way of playing.

And for all his mistakes, we'd have finished higher than 11th last season and probably made the playoffs again, at least.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Since the end of last season we've been linked with a number of players, some more insistently than others. It's fairly irrefutably that we've not had a lot of success recently buying players from the Championship or over the age of 27. Why, then, are we continuing to make the same mistakes?

Linked with:
Sam Morsy: Wigan (Championship); 26
Craig Morgan: Wigan (Championship); 31
Byron Webster: Millwall (League One); 29
Ryan Colclough: Wigan (Championship); 23

Bought:
Leon Clarke: Bury (L1); 31 (£100k)
Chris Hussey: Bury (L1); 27 (£10k?)
Jack O'Connell: Brentford (Champ); 22 (£250k)
James Wilson: Oldham (L1); 27 (free)
John Fleck: Coventry (L1); 25 (free)
Mark Duffy: Birmingham (Champ); 30 (free)
Simon Moore: Brentford (Champ); 26 (£250k)

Not one player on either list is an up-and-coming young player from the lower leagues - the type of player which gives best value in our position. We've appointed a highly-rated scout (again!) yet seem to be shopping for players who aren't going to give value for munneh. The only players with a potential resale value are O'Connell and Moore: out of 8 that's frankly not good enough.

I'm no expert but then I don't have the latest version of Football Manager. Or access to Prozone. Either of those would allow us to narrow down a list of targets who would provide the skills we desperately need (heading, interceptions, tackling, pace, passing).

The state of the club saddens me but what pisses me off is the self inflicted nature of the wounds.

Could you do another one of those at one of the other established Lge 1 clubs like Walsall,just for comparisons sake.

 

[Barney]

It all started with the sacking of Warnock by quick draw Kevin McCabe !!!!!!!!!!!

But then again if we hadn't have sacked him how would we have found that out ?.....

I think one of the biggest mistake we have made apart from appointing Robson was sacking Wilson.

It was absolutely crackers to sack him, never mind at the time we did. I still can't believe it to this day.

 

[SandyMcBlade]

Do you think we are where we are now down to pure bad luck ?
and if it is not what on earth can we the fans do about it with out making things worse ?........

 

[Balham Blade]

Could you do another one of those at one of the other established Lge 1 clubs like Walsall,just for comparisons sake.

Can't do the linked-to bit because I have neither the time nor the required number of shits to give...but:

In:
Theo Vassell: Oldham (L1); 19, free; now on loan at Chester
Franck Moussa: Southend (L1); 27, free
Simeon Jackson: Blackburn (Champ); 29
Jason Demitriou: Apoel Larneca (Cyprus); 28
Joe Edwards: Colchester (L2); 25
Isaiah Osborne: Scunthorpe (L1); 28
Neil Etheridge: Charlton (L1); 26
Florent Cuvelier: Sheff U (L1); 23
Erhun Oztumer: Peterborough (L1); 25

Basically a similar market but players more likely to improve and/or have a decent sell on price. Not one over 30.

 

[Bladesway]

It all started with the sacking of Warnock by quick draw Kevin McCabe !!!!!!!!!!!

But then again if we hadn't have sacked him how would we have found that out ?.....

You could argue it started when he didn't sack Warnock the season we went up.

 

[Silent Blade]

It all started with the sacking of Warnock by quick draw Kevin McCabe !!!!!!!!!!!

But then again if we hadn't have sacked him how would we have found that out ?.....

Sigh! He wasnt sacked! His contract expired!

 

[8lade]

From memory
Wilson once he lost Evans and Rostron (the replacement was injured) he appeared like a rabbit in the headlights, unable to make the necessary loan to give us some fire power, any fire power, unless we were very lucky (sounds like the Blades doesn't it?) we were always going to get turned over.
Clough played counter attacking football (why we did so well against better sides) and again we didn't have the strikers to unlock defences so we were always going to struggle if we went behind plus too many league 1 teams were happy with a point from us.
Adkins, I feel for, one season and somebody else's players to deal with, yeah he talked some cack but I imagine he had to shoulder responsibility for a poor team and not having enough resources to put it right (i'm sure he will come good again).
Wilder, I'm sure will improve, whether we will get to the play offs i'm not sure but he needs to stop using his favourites and get somebody in the team who is in enough form to put the ball in the net.

 

[Rufus Smalls]

You could argue it started when he didn't sack Warnock the season we went up.

I've had this discussion/argument loads of times in the past few years.

Warnock, irrespective of the fact he won us promotion to the Prem, is not a Premiership standard manager. It would have been extremely harsh to replace him with a new manager for the start of the 06/07 season but it just could have kept us up.

Hindsight and all that ...........

Gone slightly off topic there, sorry.

UTB.

 

[The Crab]

Or just not sacked Clough and told him to find more Ches and fewer Coutts.

Something cataclysmic must have happened in that end of season meeting, to walk into the room employed and walk out of it unemployed. A massive clash of egos where neither party would back down? If that was the case then there was only one way it was going to end.

 

[TONY_TONY_AGANA]

Podolski?

 

[FellBlade]

I am relatively new to this forum and hardly ever post here,but I do think it's strange how many Clough haters there are on here.The statistics don't lie-we finished 7th and in the playoffs under him,whereas we have been pretty shambolic since.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

I am relatively new to this forum and hardly ever post here,but I do think it's strange how many Clough haters there are on here.The statistics don't lie-we finished 7th and in the playoffs under him,whereas we have been pretty shambolic since.

Don't think the 5 - 5 helped when Swindon home and away were there for the taking . Frustration , diaspontment just came out from the supporters and the behind closed door debacle of the Board Room v Clough , leading ultimately to his sacking . Bizarre bloke but on hindsight would he have got us promotion , if we had left him to it for another season . Think he would which then makes the Adkins texture worst and Wilder get up and running even worst .

Thing is we don't do patience , why should we . Should get more understanding with the players though , all for one and all that shit . Be great to get a resounding win against Oxford .

 

[jt64]

New manager...nothing has changed.

He needs results off the bat. He hasn't the time or free space to scout and take risks on lower league players.
They need careful scouting to find them

I would have thought that Wilder might have a clue as to who is worth taking a punt on from league 2, given that winning it last year ought to imply he might have paid attention to it